WTF?: "Seinfeld"'s Michael 'Kramer' Richards in Weird-o-Rama Onstage Meltdown

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You are a moron.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:55 (seventeen years ago) link

From a purely practical standpoint, who fucking cares if Michael Richards is a "racist" or an "asshole" or "dangerously socially inept" or "incredibly mean-spirited"?

Dan, this is exactly my point. What he did was horrible, but people here seemed overly interested in now being able to call him a RACIST.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Why do you give a shit, Jay? What's your stake in arguing that he's not? Semantics?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

yes, stet, we all read your cracker-reference up thread.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess it's possible to use racist language with the intent to piss off someone but not really believe in what you're saying, which makes you a total asshole but not necessarily a commited racist.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't care what you call him, dude is scary.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (seventeen years ago) link

"overly interested"? dude, people have been saying a lot of things. You'd have a point if us calling him racist was in some way shutting down discussion, but its not.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeh, I mean, I'm Britishes so clearly don't have yr cultural sensititvies on this one, but fuck me is it always so knee jerk whenever anyone says nigger?

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:57 (seventeen years ago) link

As a comedian, aren't you supposed to make the heckler look like the asshole? A bold anti-heckling gambit by Mr. Rchards. Uh.

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

it's not "shortsighted" to fucking characterize a situation while discussing it! that's what conversation is.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

i'd expect this sort of thing from saget...

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

racism is the new sex tape

― cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (seventeen years ago) link

kramer is one of those zany improv dudes, right? that shit can get out of hand real quick.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (seventeen years ago) link

unless you're the type who thinks words only have one meaning, and can only be used in one way, and wave your little fan whenever you're offended.

really, guys. put down those fans! just a bit of lynching humor - let's all be cool.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah, seriously. stet, are you crazy?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost jaymc I don't think that is actually the case at all. It kind of seems like you're trying to derail the thread into a "we all must argue that he is a racist because someone is saying he might not be," though.

xpost stet, what exactly are you not getting about the fact that A) that's an inappropriate word B) the majority of us are much more bothered, and have explicitly said so, by the fact that he coupled this word with a straight up reference to lynching? What on earth could the hecklers be saying that you honestly believe this is something that could be "mitigated"?

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm surprised [they] didn’t ask for reparations.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (seventeen years ago) link

It's not just the word itself though, it's the vitriol with which he says it. I am British too, and I think it's pretty obvious he's a racist, and a very stupid one at that.

Too many xposts to count

― chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (seventeen years ago) link

isn't motherfucker a 33rd degree mason?

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i think attempts to defend Richards are more likely to be based on 'but this is hilarious Kramer guy, please no he can't be a racist!' denial rather than anything else. but then if Richards was known as an asshole generally (as was douchebag Gibson) before this indeed why bother?

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I am pretty certain I've read that he is a mason.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:02 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Richards was just trying to hurt these people's feelings. If he instead said, "Hahahah, laugh it up you ignorant fucks!" that wouldn't be racist, right? But, would anyone call the hecklers racist if they responded, "Shut up, you god damn cracker! Get off the stage, white boy! You suck!" Probably not, right?

If you call someone a redneck, you're lumping him in with a steretype that is intented to hurt him. Not racist, but cultural. Half the people who call people the N-word in places like NY or LA are talking specifically about selfish, loud, angry, belligerent, macho assholes. From what little we see here, it sounds as if these hecklers have been acting like selfish, loud, angry, belligerent, macho assholes long enough to make him flip out.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Why do you give a shit, Jay? What's your stake in arguing that he's not? Semantics?

I just think that immediate [behavior = identity] judgments are dangerous. In this particular case, there's a good chance that he probably is a racist, just like there was a good chance, upon the revelation of Mark Foley's improprieties, that he was gay. But the kneejerkism makes me uncomfortable.

This is no longer worth arguing, though.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (seventeen years ago) link

I guess it's possible to use racist language with the intent to piss off someone but not really believe in what you're saying, which makes you a total asshole but not necessarily a commited racist.

numerous ilxers (some banned, some not banned) to thread...

but Richards IS way over that here, in the end

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Well... what sort of heckling would justify telling someone that fifty years ago, he would have been lynched for his comments?

xpost - Ally OTM again.

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (seventeen years ago) link

People do funny things when they're put on the spot.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:06 (seventeen years ago) link

nude spock droppin science

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I just think that immediate [behavior = identity] judgments are dangerous.

don't you think this is more a case of belief than behavior, though?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (seventeen years ago) link

did you guys know that, like, words are just words?? i bet i just blew your mind

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm not sure what I'm not getting, but it's definitely something.
A) that's an inappropriate word
Yeh, it's a word often used to offend/insult/belittle, but does that make it unsayable?
B) the majority of us are much more bothered, and have explicitly said so, by the fact that he coupled this word with a straight up reference to lynching?
I don't like that much either, and it was definitely an abuse of stage-power, and mean-spirited. But I can think of at least one reason why he could have said it without being a racist, and am confused by all the people who think it's cast iron without knowing what the heckler said. Are there no racist things that can be said by black people to white people?

what sort of heckling would justify telling someone that fifty years ago, he would have been lynched for his comment
Did he say that, or did he say that fifty years ago, he would have been getting lynched? It's not that he's saying "you'd have got lynched for saying that, back when we whites ruled the world".

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (seventeen years ago) link

what does he say before he leaves the stage? something like: "words words we still have words" or something. was he trying to be lenny bruce? i think it probably was something like that and it got out of hand and he's just not funny or quick enough to make it work. dude is like 80.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link

kramer is one of those zany improv dudes, right? that shit can get out of hand real quick.

oh noes what if he uses 'i had to say it so many times because it was improv and i had several minutes left!' as an excuse!

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link

WARNING: WE HAVE PASSED THE EVENT HORIZON. BE PREPARED TO REHASH EVERY ILE RACISM DISCUSSION EVER, ON LOOP, AD INFINITUM.

for fuck's sake, people.

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link

kramer is one of those zany improv dudes, right? that shit can get out of hand real quick.

"OK guys, I want a suggestion for a racial epiphet you hear everyday..."

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link

coon!

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

oh wait

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

EVERYday

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

isn't motherfucker a 33rd degree mason?

-- Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (evi...), November 20th, 2006 1:00 PM. (sexyDancer) (later) (link)

He's only got 32 degrees, but close enough.

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1815/marsellos1zt1.jpg

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

people do not funny things when put on the spot for being not funny, not funny.

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Are there no racist things that can be said by black people to white people

!!!

there is nothing equivalent to threatening lynching because there was no time in American history where black Americans were in a position to make a regular practice of lynching white Americans. are you fucking kidding me?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

He probably said it because subconsciously he was trying to give an egomaniac a bit of an inferiority complex.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

don't you think this is more a case of belief than behavior, though?

I have no idea what Michael Richards believes.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Whose Lynching Is It, Anyway?

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, NS, I'd buy your "People do stupid shit" argument if it was just him saying the word once, but to scream it over and over again and couple it with a lynching reference? I don't think that is particularly excusable as "funny things." That is, at best, completely bonkers.

xpost jesus christ, stet, no one said "blacks can't be racist," they're saying "What Michael Richards said is completely racist and unjustified."

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (seventeen years ago) link

did you know black people can be racist too? FACT.

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (seventeen years ago) link

i agree with jaymc. it's dangerous to call kramer a racist on the internet for screaming "YOU'RE A NIGGER!" at some guy nineteen times at the top of his lungs in a video on the internet.

― ath (ath), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (seventeen years ago) link

"Yeh, I mean, I'm Britishes so clearly don't have yr cultural sensititvies on this one, but fuck me is it always so knee jerk whenever anyone says nigger?"

What the fucking hell? Are you brain-damaged or something? Did you watch the video? He said a hell of a lot more than just that!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (seventeen years ago) link

i wonder how long it took for the red light to go on

― cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Apparently he's 33 now.

http://www.srmason-sj.org/web/journal-files/Issues/sep03/casalou.htm

Not that I have any idea what that's supposed to signify.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:12 (seventeen years ago) link

What Michael Richards said is completely racist and unjustified.

I agree with this, for the record.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:12 (seventeen years ago) link

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