Doctor Who: Classic or Dud?

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There's a doomed poacher in Pyramints Of Mars too though sadly his accent is not as broad.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 8 May 2003 09:14 (twenty years ago) link

yes she was an egyptian princess

also it was based on the legend of pigpygmalion

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 8 May 2003 09:15 (twenty years ago) link

is dr who scripted by a cabal of secretly angry gamekeepers?

mark s (mark s), Thursday, 8 May 2003 09:15 (twenty years ago) link

Actually I think the guy in PoM IS a gamekeeper so clearly the producers wanted to give both sides a fair shake.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 8 May 2003 09:17 (twenty years ago) link

Pyramints of Mars -- more Michael Sheard action.

Alan (Alan), Thursday, 8 May 2003 09:27 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
Has anyone else here ever seen the Tom Baker erm... biopic (for want of a better word?) where he sits in front of a tv, and is shown his own Dr Who episodes he hasn't seen in years?

yes, it is total classic. I love the bit where he looks at his ex-wife on the screen and says "Oh, that's Lalla! I remember... we became very close".

apparently the catchphrase in Tom Baker's autobiography is "we had the most terrible fun... and then I never saw them again".

DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:34 (twenty years ago) link

I noticed in a shop that you can get the original William Hartnell "Dr Who & The Dalek Invasion Of Earth" on DVD, and one of the special features is you can watch it either with the original special effects, or with "new improved" CGI effects.

DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:35 (twenty years ago) link

three months pass...
REVIVE because of the recent news and because I am a nerd.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 4 October 2003 03:46 (twenty years ago) link

who have they got to play the Doctor in the new series again? Jim Davidson, isn't it?

DV (dirtyvicar), Saturday, 4 October 2003 07:44 (twenty years ago) link

keith harris and orville

Ed (dali), Saturday, 4 October 2003 07:57 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
Oh, classic... and I probably have a far more favourable view of McCoy and that era of the show than most - I was hooked on it at age 5/6 in 1988. And for a number of years, was a great fan of it. Only very occasionally have I watched it these last 4 or 5 years, mind. Which should make it good to revisit it all sometime... maybe in the run-up to the new Russell T. Davies (the perfect man to do it!) penned series.

Right... a *long post* here I feel; but I know the show well, so why not contribute?

In terms of Doctors:
Classic: Hartnell, Troughton, Tom Baker (manic, brooding, charming... his Doctor has perhaps generally been my favourite)

Dud: Pertwee (though not exclusively; his first season is a corker, and he's pretty good in it, but too often is rather staid in many later stories), Colin Baker (due perhaps to waning scripting, he was ill-served; he gave his all, but some things were ill-conceived. I generally like the way he tried to play the part).

Mixed: Davison (years and years since i've seen most of his stories... it's possibly his underplayed quality that meant I wasn't so taken with him; maybe not i'd appreciate it more. He certainly seems to along with Troughton have had the best post-DW career; "At Home with the Braithwaites", of which I only caught a few episodes of last year's series, sees him give a deliciously comic performance! I want to see "A Very Peculiar Practice" too...), McCoy (the 1987 season is weak all-round and his performance seems a little amateurish. Yet, he's never less than likeable, and gradually improved. By the final 1989 season, he had honed a very effective melancholia into the character. He was a wistful, wise, loveable uncle sort of figure, yet with possible darker leanings... it's only a shame that as an actor McCoy could never do angry very well).

Stories:
Search: the whole of Seasons 7 and 26; being only four stories apiece, these maybe have an advantage in terms of consistency. First is Pertwee at his early grounded best - all moral shades of grey in the writing, effective location work and sense of threats/mystery. Great monsters in the Autons and great plot in "Inferno". "Ambassadors of Death" is an all-o'er-the-place romp of some genius: very padded but entertainingly so. One of the more psychedelic and Bondian of Who stories, but with a morality play core to it. S26: barring possibly the straight adventure of "Battlefield" (which is entertaining at least, but not really good), the other 3 stories maintain a very high standard indeed. Use of historical settings was well overdue, considering the BBC's expertise at that. With fantastical and macabre elements brought into those settings. "Ghost Light" haunted me as a child, as did "Curse of Fenric"; both of which are dense, complex tales. "Survival" brought a suprising and wistful air of social (and magic) realism to the show. What a shame it had to be its finale at that time: just as the programme was getting *good* again!
Seasons 14 and 16 are close to as good as well... S16 maybe let down by weaker final 2 stories. The first four are a grand run though.
Random Search-worthy stories: "Seeds of Doom" (wonderfully tense first 2 eps. and then an enthrallingly barmy extended-"Avengers" style saga...), "Talons of Weng-Chiang" (all sorts of Victoriana combined in a sumptuous whole... archetypally wonderful DW, though few matched its level of hit to the miss), as some have said: "Castrovalva" (possibly with some dullish moments, but i like that leisurely progress it has; nice atmosphere, all quirky early-80s paraphanelia and Paddy Kingsland synth work... as people have said, a fantastic central narrative idea). "The Time Meddler" (barmy, winning Hartnell historical set in 1066 with a Monk who wants to assassinate William the Conqueror!), "The Mind Robber" (like the previous, this was in the fine BBC2 1992 repeat run of stories. Wonderfully surrealist hi-jinks; a world of fiction that constantly baffles even the Doctor!), "The War Games" (a massive 10 episodes long, this is a wonderfully epic tale; one of the key stories of the whole show. Last Troughton, and he gives a superb performance - his impersonation of a WW1 British Inspector of Prisons is a priceless, magical scene!), "An Unearthly Child (the very first episode of the whole show is genius; 'nuff said'), "City of Death" (the show's very best use of humour, and that's saying something; married to a fine plot, and Parisian locations, this is unutterably charming stuff... maybe my very favourite story of all. Tom B. and Lalla make a great pair), "The Androids of Tara" (from the 'Key To Time' S16, this blissfully ignores the umbrella theme and just gets down to telling a smashing swashbuckling story. Beautiful location work, T. Baker at his funniest... Mary Tamm actually rather good), "Warriors' Gate" (from that very odd final T. Baker season of which I have mixed feelings; this is avant garde Dr Who. Vaguely influenced by Jean Cocteau, with some effective sci-fi, it's beautifully directed and an effectively complex tale), "Black Orchid" (jolly old 1920s country house murder yarn, which beautifully has the Doctor just turn up and star in a cricket match! Davison great in this; a story in which T. Baker's Doctor would have been too dominating a figure... I need to see this again), "The Green Death" (for that key and rare emotional scene alluded to by someone on here... it really adds an unresolved depth to Pertwee's all too often autopilot portrayal. And a reasonable story as well), "Robot" (watch Tom Baker forming the portrayal as he goes along almost... his performance has the flavour of improvisational inspiration about it; wonderfully interesting for this reason), "Robots of Death" (one of the most scary certainly, and Leela in all her glory...! Great companion), "Horror of Fang Rock" (probably the best Leela story, this again shows DW playing its horror card precisely and beautifully. A lot of depth to this story in the writing and acting). And I could go on... ;-)
Too many Hartnell and particularly Troughton episodes were destroyed and have not been found... probably the most promising of the 'lost stories' are "Evil of the Daleks", "Power of the Daleks" (first Troughton, so poetically alluded to above by Mark S.), "The Massacre", "Fury from the Deep" (genuinely quite scary to listen to on audio, with brilliant sound and music; a very bleak, out-of-control atmosphere, doom-laden crises by the sea... has a great dazed cliffhanger where a possessed lady wife of one character walks off into the mist-laden sea... a surviving clip of this 'malevolent Laurel and Hardy' pair - purporting to be maintenance men - who exhale a gas that chokes this woman, is a macabre scene indeed), "Web of Fear" (the Yeti in London one; the extant opener is a corking episode; the rest according to audio seems a fine exercise in action, paranoia and tension).

Destroy: Haven't the heart (or frankly the time!) to go too far here... the show has clear faults; but I really think they should be overlooked in favour of its redoubtable strengths, but here goes...
"The Web Planet" (absolutely incomprehensible, if bizarre early Hartnell... it may have been the appalling UK Gold quality of sound/picture, but it was like a snowstorm with unexplained madness going on and mumbled words... all sorts of weird ants and bee-men. This might actually be genius if tidied up for DVD, but I sadly doubt it!), "The Sensorites" (sums up the worse side of early DW; incredibly slow-moving and literal sci-fi. Even the regulars seem lethargic), "Time-Flight" (woeful end to a generally good first Davison season; the money had ran out, and what we have is... a shoddy, shoddy effort all round), "Time and the Rani" (cringe-worthy first McCoy story; embarrassing really), "Attack of the Cybermen" (the most appallingly past-continuity-of-the-show-reliant story of all the later years; a gaudy adventure that lacks any control of tone, like quite a few Colin Baker stories), "The Twin Dilemma" (with suitable changes to production and writing, this could have worked... there are fine and brave moments, but on the whole it is fatally inept. Colin Baker doesn't quite pull it off... but as I say, it has its moments), "Silver Nemesis" (pointless, cut-up of all sorts of novelty elements), "Resurrection of the Daleks" (too much macho posturing, not enough humour or humanity; the case with a fair bit of mid-1980s Who), "Colony in Space" (there are many really quite dull Pertwees; this is one of them ;-)), "Revenge of the Cybermen" (possibly my least favourite Tom Baker; it has a few hilarious moments of Baker madness, yet is deadly dull otherwise and wastes the Cybermen for goodness' sake!) and the McGann TV Movie (just not Dr Who in so many core elements; McGann is good, but his costume is too pastiche Edwardiana, and it all just seems so streamlined and lacking genuine ideas and intelligence. An over-reliance on 'quirky one-liners' as well, no subtlety; all is too much of a bland action story... too many past allusions, too many pointless changes to the Doctor's character - 'half-human' etc. Not enough charm and wonder.).
I think the thing about the Colin Baker and Jon Pertwee eras is that there aren't really that many awful stories, yet there are comparitively far too few triumphs.

Overall, well, as people can probably tell, I love it... genuinely wonderful TV for the 'intelligent 12 year old', though clearly its appeal extends to those much younger and older than that. :-) In the words of Viv Stanshall, it's 'English as tuppence, changing yet changless as canal-water'...

Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 30 November 2003 00:59 (twenty years ago) link

'changeless' that should be, at the end... hmmm, how do these typos happen? :)

Tom May (Tom May), Saturday, 6 December 2003 02:20 (twenty years ago) link

I missed the final McCoy episodes, did they ever clear up what this big "mystery" was about the Doctor's origins/intentions that they started hinting about with his Dalek story?

anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Saturday, 6 December 2003 19:33 (twenty years ago) link

Not really... the final season possibly has a few hints - i think we can discount the 'Battlefield' Doctor as Merlin stuff ;-) - but not explicitly. Implicit in the passage of that season he is increasingly a player on a wide stage, plotting, out-manoeuvering opponents in a complex fashion. Even playing with the emotions of his ccompanion to achieve his ends. Apparently the final story, "Survival" (which is very much recommended, by the way) had footage that was excised late in the day, concerning the Doctor's past, c.f. the Master.

Tom May (Tom May), Saturday, 6 December 2003 20:32 (twenty years ago) link

seven months pass...
starry the mannequins episode scars me still!!
oh no! they are PUSHING THEIR WAY THRU BRACKEN!! oh NOOOOO!!

Sinker totally OTM !
my younger sister was so terrified at the part with the arm gun
that my mum came in and turned the telly off

and yes, it's true - our couch wasn't against the wall
so we did hide behind it and other chairs in the room

Paul (scifisoul), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 03:27 (nineteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
PAUL I KISS YOU

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 03:54 (nineteen years ago) link

awesome aren't they? you lot helped revive my interest
(I originally watched from 1966?-1970, then 1974-77)
but I became fascinated by the missing (particularly Patrick Troughton) stories/episodes.
that led to finding the BBC site with photonovel reconstructions & clips!

Paul (scifisoul), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 10:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Don't make me (try to) post my Dalek picture again!

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 11:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I hope the new series doesn't get too slick with the special effects or the sets. Part of the show's weird, claustrophobic atmosphere stemmed from the very cheapness of it. The bizarre, cobbled together look of some of the monsters and backdrops was quite nightmarish.

Wooden (Wooden), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:37 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/09/dalek_legs/

TOMBOT, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 13:39 (nineteen years ago) link

one month passes...
haha AWESOME!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/photonovels/evilofthedaleks/

Paul (scifisoul), Saturday, 11 September 2004 02:48 (nineteen years ago) link

I mean - how can you lose?:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/photonovels/evilofthedaleks/one/47.shtml

Paul (scifisoul), Saturday, 11 September 2004 03:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Nothing beats Ian grooving to the Beatles in The Chase.

Sexual Air Supply (Autumn Almanac), Saturday, 11 September 2004 06:13 (nineteen years ago) link

one year passes...
FORTY-TWO YEARS AGO TODAY: Doctor Who aired its first episode.

Dan (And So On) Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 23 November 2005 15:49 (eighteen years ago) link

four months pass...

This reminded me of my favourite ever Doctor Who story.

Saw it a few weeks ago on UK Gold, who are currently showing the Jon Pertwee stories now for the 1st time in four years.
Into Pertwee's 3rd season now.

Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Sunday, 26 March 2006 11:49 (eighteen years ago) link

four weeks pass...
Quick, crew, recommend me some DVDs (particularly 3rd and 4th Doctor storys) for Amazon purchase. I am about to go on a little frenzy. Pretty please.

BARMS, Tuesday, 25 April 2006 18:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Classic obviously - but the high-priced, single-episode DVDs are ridiculous. I want to own them but gimme a fucking break, $25 for an hour-and-a-half of low budget sci-fi? wtf

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 18:35 (eighteen years ago) link

City of Death (4th Doc) is good.

chap who would dare to be a nerd, not a geek (chap), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 18:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Can anyone help me ID which story the following extremely vaguely remembered snippet comes from? Peter Davison... some kind of middle eastern style bazaar (maybe)... a fortune teller's tent (possibly)... a crystal ball (very dubious)... and the crux of this misty memory: a vision within this ball or whatever of some kind of evil nasty supernatural alien thingy. Which may have resembled a rat's skull.

ledge (ledge), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 18:58 (eighteen years ago) link

probably snakedance.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 19:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I watched City Of Death recently but didn't think much of it. Everyone else out of Who fans I know seems to love it though. But I am less of a fan than any of them it's true.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 19:10 (eighteen years ago) link

4th Doc (Tom Baker)
The Pirate Planet (written by Douglas Adams)(actually, the whole Key to Time series is pretty sweet)
The Mutants (starts slow but ends with bang)
3rd Doc (Pertwee! my personal fave)
Planet of the Spiders (his final episode)
oh I can't remember the names...

Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 19:29 (eighteen years ago) link

Pertwee always looks a bit too serious.

chap who would dare to be a nerd, not a geek (chap), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 19:39 (eighteen years ago) link

I like the story arc where the Master turns into this weird mottled plant-looking thing - is that the Key of Time ones (I think so...?) Gallifrei is involved, the Doctor's called back there to be excommunicated or something.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 19:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Barms is looking at English discs so...

3rd Doctor:

Green Death is probably the best one out there (giant maggots) as long as you can get past some of the Welsh stereotyping and the "aren't environmentalists mad" subplot. The extras are good.
Spearhead From Space (Autons) is good for a "new Doctor" story and Claws Of Axos is a lot of fun (but with really 70s effects and an acid freakout).

4th Doctor:

You can't go wrong with any of the Gothic Horror stories - Pyramids Of Mars, Horror Of Fang Rock or Talons Of Weng-Chiang. We can argue over whether Robots Of Death fits into this category or not (I'd say it does) but that's another good one. If you don't fancy that, the recently released Genesis Of The Daleks is possibly the best-paced 6-parter ever and The Ark In Space is a great romp (if you ignore the at times very poor effects - bubble wrap will kill us all).

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 19:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Claws of Axos is cool.

Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 19:50 (eighteen years ago) link

I've just noticed he says "particularly" and not exclusively 3rd and 4th, so I heartily recommend The Beginning box. Some of the best Doctor Who ever filmed and no mistake.

The Web Planet is possibly the most ON DRUQS Who I've seen. Also The Aztecs is quite brilliant in places.
The Mind Robber is probably the best Troughton on sale, and has the maximum ZOE UBER-CUETNESS factor (see also Tomb Of The Cybermen).
Caves of Androzani is one of the best-written Who stories, probably.
Vengeance On Varos actually stands up really well, with a Big Brother-esque plot 20 years before RTD did it, and Jason Connery topless.
I can't think of any reason to recommend any of the McCoy releases except they're better than I remember them being.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 19:59 (eighteen years ago) link

I can't think of any reason to recommend any of the McCoy releases except they're better than I remember them being.

I have very fond memories of 'Paradise Towers' from when I was a kid.

chap who would dare to be a nerd, not a geek (chap), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 20:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Not available to buy though.

Dan's the McCoy fan I think, you might get him defending them. (I actually think McCoy himself isn't that bad, he was just crippled with the two worst comoanions in the history of the show.)

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 20:14 (eighteen years ago) link

There's two really good McCoy stories available, Ghost Light and The Curse of Fenric! I wish they'd give the Dalek stories a break, but I guess that is what sells.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 20:23 (eighteen years ago) link

The re-cut Fenric is OK, but contains the single most cringeworthy scene filmed by the BBC (Ace's "oooooh, the wind, can you keep up with me" bollocks).

Ghost Light is better than I thought it was at the time but MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE, which even the writer admits. If you watch it with the commentary on, he explains what happens in the scenes that were cut and you can see how it was supposed to work, but it barely saves it.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Tuesday, 25 April 2006 20:30 (eighteen years ago) link

I heart y'all, especially aldo. McCoy was technically "my Doctor" (obv. Ecclestone is now), given that despite being about 3 at the time, I never caught Colin B. I have the haziest memories of McCoy (I once had his action figure and I dug his brolly), but for some reason have a bit of an attachment to Ace. It goes without saying that this frenzy is Russell T's fault. I'll start with at least 4 of those recommendations as found on Amazon, including The Beginning and will Report Back.

BARMS, Wednesday, 26 April 2006 08:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Hvae brought back Spearhed from Space after only one episode. I think it's an all or nothing experience.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 26 April 2006 08:59 (eighteen years ago) link

Michelle Gomez wants to be the first femal Doctor Who

And you know what - it would work.

Pete (Pete), Thursday, 27 April 2006 09:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Hurrah, another wacky over-actor. She's essentially the female David Tennant.

ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 27 April 2006 09:27 (eighteen years ago) link

Indeed. What is it with their Scottish love for the Doctor?

Pete (Pete), Thursday, 27 April 2006 10:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Michelle Gomez wants to be the first femal Doctor Who
And you know what - it would work.

Er, hello? It's Doctor Who, not Senior Staff Nurse Who.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 27 April 2006 11:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Matron Who.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 27 April 2006 11:46 (eighteen years ago) link


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