if i have time tomorrow (= mum's illness and work nightmares permitting) and if this thread has not gone all ghastly, i shall and say it more clearly
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 11 April 2005 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link
x-post
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 11 April 2005 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 11 April 2005 20:55 (nineteen years ago) link
Do you see Dworkin as an American writer?
― Momus (Momus), Monday, 11 April 2005 20:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 11 April 2005 20:56 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 11 April 2005 20:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:01 (nineteen years ago) link
xpost
― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:01 (nineteen years ago) link
As American as violence and apple pie. And I think you're absolutely right about the Janus face of American culture: Whitman greeting the dawn naked and Ashcroft covering up nude statues in the capitol.
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― Momus (Momus), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:06 (nineteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:07 (nineteen years ago) link
Protestant is an awfully lazy term here, but there is something very pre-industrial and Jeffersonian in their desire for connection to the land, manageable local democracy, and for homespun simplicity which has always made me think that part of the hippy impulse is rather nostalgic and reactionary.
see i think the specific cultural expression of the 60s in anti-atomised forms (eg rock bands, rock audiences, rock culture)
This desire for community at the cost of individuality has always scared me at concerts. There is oftimes the echo there of fascist rallies or mobs.
― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:11 (nineteen years ago) link
I think the first impulse won out more often in the 60s convulsions, despite mucho lip service paid to the latter.
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:15 (nineteen years ago) link
ie it is anti-hierarchical, and expressive rather than submissive
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:38 (nineteen years ago) link
(ps i didn't mean sad in the "loser" sense, which i hate: i mean genuinely struck-to-its-depth w.something sorrowful - that everything shared is tainted amd corrupting)
rock culture's dream of itself wz that this wz a vast joyful unity taken on as an active choice: rockbands as little marriages, band-and-audience as a two-way lovematch etc etc
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:49 (nineteen years ago) link
Meat eating = objectification = pornography and women = cattle
It's as if she's saying "It's much worse than you think. Women are even more abject than anybody imagined. Cattle. Offal. Hamburgers." I mean, who does that analysis help? Where does that metaphor lead? It makes the image of a leggy hamburger on her book jacket look positively chivalric in comparison.
― Momus (Momus), Monday, 11 April 2005 21:50 (nineteen years ago) link
but the bondage scenario above is queer sex--or at least sex informed by knowledge of power dialectics.
― anthony, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:09 (nineteen years ago) link
WTMFF?
― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:12 (nineteen years ago) link
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:21 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:24 (nineteen years ago) link
but i realize i cant be seduced.
― anthony, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:25 (nineteen years ago) link
Dworkin just never got any. That was her problem - who would go down on THAT?
― NamC, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― anthony, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― g e o f f (gcannon), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:30 (nineteen years ago) link
― lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link
Blah blah blah 'hatred of women' blah blah blah. Never met a woman who hated me as a person funnily enough and have plenty of them as friends and, shockingly, was brought up by them too. Blah blah blah - this is nonsense. Dworkin was a pig ugly obese nutcase and if someone only laid her back and gave her some fine oral she'd probably have revised her views a long time ago. As it is she was no worse than a KKK member telling us all blacks are the spawn of satan - only her enemy had a penis.
― NamC, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:41 (nineteen years ago) link
What makes SF great is just how sexually liberated it is. The Castro district is - like - now one of my fave places ever.
― NamC, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:43 (nineteen years ago) link
oddly, I still find yr sub-literate masturbatory fantasies really really REALLY boring.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:44 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:46 (nineteen years ago) link
A) Noticed you on this board the whole time I've been here
And/ Or
B) Could tell you one post you've made.
So you're clearly a very memorable guy.
― NamC, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link
All I can say to that is that I'm glad you didn't crash our party in SF after all because if you can't join in on such things then you gotta be freaking boring.
― NamC, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:48 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 11 April 2005 22:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 11 April 2005 22:50 (nineteen years ago) link