Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2024

I'm seeing Celine placing well outside the top 5 best-selling female artists

Depends if your talking global or US. Even there, she's at least Top 5.

She's #7 according to this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

I always thought Rihanna would breeze in (up for election in 2030). Critical support (however you define it) seems to matter less and less, but I think she's had more than Mariah Carey, no? (Who, again, I would have put in--though behind Sinead O'Connor.)

Give Taylor a couple weeks and I think she knocks Celine out of the 5

Critical support (however you define it) seems to matter less and less, but I think she's had more than Mariah Carey, no?

To the extent that this is true, I think it's only because Rihanna emerged at a time when critics were less snobby about Mariah's style of pop music. In retrospect, it's insane that the first time Mariah placed on a Pazz & Jop singles list was "We Belong Together" in 2005. So yeah, Rihanna received more critical love from the jump -- for her singles, at least. At the same time, none of her albums are higher than a 75 on Metacritic (even though I know that people think ANTI was a masterpiece). So it's hard for me to see her as a shoo-in, especially now that Mariah -- who's been around long enough to be considered an icon -- didn't make it.

"Mariah's style of pop music" should probably be "certain styles of pop music." Obv. Rihanna isn't working in the same vein as Mariah, other than the broad genre of pop/R&B. I suppose if Rihanna had debuted in 1990, she might have been appreciated by the same critics who derided Mariah Carey. But I also think that by the time she did debut in the mid-2000s, there weren't as many critical barriers.

I think that's all true, but I will point out that TLC did well through the '90s on Pazz & Jop singles voting, even if Mariah Carey didn't:

1992 - #12
1993 - #4 & #8
1999 - #1 & #12

Outside of TLC, not much inside the Top 10.

I think Rihanna would have well too, but just a guess.

(Not much female pop/R&B, that is.)

TLC is way better than Mariah Carey so there's that

hashtag stop pitting r&b women against each other clap emoji

"Fantasy" not making the '95 Pazz & Jop list pretty well invalidates it so far as I'm concerned

xpost no

stop pitting r&b women against each other

? That's like half of ILM posting, artist A vs. artist B, across every conceivable genre there is.

I doubt TLC would even claim that

the critical rap on rihanna was that she was too cold as if she was supposed to break for them or something

anti is thoroughly canonised at this point and I'd let her in just for that but there are others who should probably go first namely mariah but also britney, beyonce, bjork, tori amos, pj harvey, d'angelo, what happened it's like the 90s are just dave grohl and pearl jam to these people

...we do it with films, baseball players, pizza, politicians, everything.

my least favorite genre of ilm posting even though I'm complicit

I know we've done how fucking racist the early influences category is but jesus christ. and of course they did robert johnson way before ma rainey and bessie smith, fuck you clapton

just amalgamate it for god's sake wenner's no longer there making sure rock is white enough for his liking

I hate that I care about this thing

it's like the 90s are just dave grohl and pearl jam to these people

And Dave Matthews Band too, but yes, this is the exact profile of a typical R&R HOF voter

They do have other blind spots. Husker Du and the Replacements should 1000% be in there. Reconciling the absence of those two bands with what I'm guessing is the perception of the typical voter is not easy.

(I should have checked before posting that. I know Husker Du isn't--that'll look pretty stupid if the Replacements are in there...I don't think so.)

Also Pixies and Smashing Pumpkins, but they would all have to be nominated first.

Mats aren't believe me this state would have shut down for a week

I would love husker du to get in and I hope the window doesn't close for them because younger folks seem less aware of them (I think they could definitely attract new fans if folks got a little less squeamish talking about how very queer their music is instead of just downplaying it as music by people who happen to be queer)

replacements sure they're important or whatever I don't get it maybe you had to be there but throw em on the pile

Mats aren't believe me this state would have shut down for a week

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, April 25, 2024 3:02 PM (fourteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Jim Walsh immolated himself in front of the HOF in protest of the snub

I doubt the breeders will beat pixies in there but I would love that

has the gen x takeover happened yet or is it still in progress? there is a surprising lack of alt grunge indie stuff aside from the big basic boomer approved highlights and there is such deep bench to pull from even if you want to stick to rockist principles

Gen X will get skipped cuz the boomers won't die off, just like everything else

I guess the RS-approved rap classics is the gen x coming through but it's such a slog and millennials will be ancient by the time we make our voices heard by finally inducting britney or taylor or whoever

Dionne Warwick's in now, and for the time being, I'm giving up on Husker Du/Replacements/Shangri-Las/(and, quirkier, Tommy James). My new #1 HOF project: the Pet Shop Boys.

(What I mean by "project," by the way, is that I'll be travelling the continent and visiting voters one-by-one with a slide show presentation on why the PSB should be elected.)

"In my many, many years as a writer and editor, nobody — nobody — has ever mentioned Osbourne’s solo work to me. No one’s wanted to review an album or cover a show. No one’s ever said, “Hey, you should hear this track on the new Ozzy album.” I don’t even remember ever reading a review of one of his albums or hearing one of his solo songs played on the radio, and of course none of his albums has ever turned up in the Pazz & Jop poll."

So here in the annual update to his Vulture ranking of the most to least worthy RRHoF inductees, Chicago's very own Bill Wyman is eager to let you know that he's savvy, he's been around the block, and so forth. But it would appear that he's not so savvy, or indeed at all self-aware, that he can't stand back and notice that the above passage, which appears in the 254th spot, only besting his placing for Stevie Nicks at 255, echoes Pauline Kael's infamously blinkered "Nixon couldn't have won, no one I know voted for him" remark. Surely the unassailably urbane Mr. Wyman knows of the chink in Kael's cognitive armor! Is it so challenging to update this list that he doesn't have time to examine his own assumptions? Or is he kinda dim, as Steve Albini suggested 30 years ago?

Wyman also doesn't like music that strays very far from rockist verities. Going through his ranking, he sneers dismissively w/r/t hard rock, metal, pop metal, post Clash english popular music nominally associated with rock, music chiefly made with synthesizers, pop soul, dance music, and only gives credit to hip-hop because he knows its a bad look to dislike the great step forward in popular music initiated and still controlled in 2024 by black people. So he seems to be on the younger end of the Dave Marsh wing of rock critics, who saw Springsteen, Petty, Coug and 80s roots rock as the course correction back to the stones, dylan, Motown/Stax values that had been compromised in the 1970s, and almost literally saw any deviation as such as a corrupt fraud.

But I will give him credit, quite a lot, for his suggestion in his now updated intro, that the nominating committee should dispense with the backdoor "award for musical excellence" boondoggle. If they don't get the desired results because the electorate is too dumb (and the RRHoF electorate is really really dumb, a bunch of bizzers and proud members of the Dave Marsh wing of rockcrit mentioned above) to recognize Kraftwerk and MC5 as such, then they should say "we are the nominating committee, these two or three artists are going in alongside the very popular nominees voted in by the shitheads, Why? because we say so, suck my dick if you don't like it. we're not breaking any laws, this is not a matter of grave global import, this is fucking show business."

I guess Wyman probably knows a higher percentage of Rock Hall voters than Kael knew voters in the presidential election, so his surprise (as an “industry guy”) doesn’t seem totally blinkered to me…

like who really knows Ozzy Ozbourne, other than that Gravy Train song which only saw life due to its use in dog food commercials, he was always known as the guy who replaced Dio in Black Sabbath and recorded Load.

I guess Wyman probably knows a higher percentage of Rock Hall voters than Kael knew voters in the presidential election, so his surprise (as an “industry guy”) doesn’t seem totally blinkered to me…

Nah, this is complete idiocy on Wyman's part. The industry loves the Osbournes. Even beyond the sheer numbers Ozzy's put on the board for five decades-plus, Sharon is royalty: her father was Don Arden, a high-powered London music biz guy.

Ozzy is practically his own economy in the metal scene

Where does he rank Dave Matthews Band? (I found the article but there's a paywall...)

yeah, what would he say?

"In my many, many years as a writer and editor, nobody — nobody — has ever mentioned Osbourne’s solo work to me. No one’s wanted to review an album or cover a show. No one’s ever said, “Hey, you should hear this track on the new Ozzy album.” I don’t even remember ever reading a review of one of his albums or hearing one of his solo songs played on the radio, and of course none of his albums has ever turned up in the Pazz & Jop poll."

imagine being an alleged radio listener and never hearing any Ozzy solo

was Ozzy the guy that used to put on those DIY Ozzfest house shows?

tbh the whole project of being a "rock critic" just seems embarrassing and pointless

as does the idea of the RnR HOF. idk

imagine being an alleged radio listener and never hearing any Ozzy solo

Ozzy is the only guy that was there when the Rock Radio chart started in 1980-81 who's still charting there today.

be easy on the guy, his mental wounds are still screaming and its driving him insane

xps That was a really weird take on Ozzy. Long before I knew anything about Black Sabbath (including who they were), I knew who Ozzy Osbourne was, and this was even before reality TV happened. He was that ubiquitous in the culture and no one in my household listened to metal or hard rock.

also lol at:

nwa at #239:

I know that Dre is one of music’s most important producers; he’s also a guy who beats up women.

chuck berry at #1:

As a person, he was less than ideal. But still: One of the most consequential American cultural figures of the 20th century.

Long before I knew anything about Black Sabbath (including who they were), I knew who Ozzy Osbourne was, and this was even before reality TV happened.

same, I know "of" Black Sabbath but they were Ozzy's old band to me, I didn't hear them until much later

I didn't even know Ozzy was in Black Sabbath until I was a teen, as I was a late bloomer to all forms of heavy rock.

embarrassed to say I found out when I borrowed one of dad's old Sabbath records (who, btw, he didn't even like, so I never gave them back), and saw his name on it and said...what, the "Perry Mason" singer guy?

weird that was the first song I thought of, but it was in fact the first one of his I heard knowingly.

every time people talked about "Crazy Train" I couldn't figure out what song they were talking about, and kept mistakenly thinking it was "Have a Cigar" because the way Roger Waters sings 'gravy train' sounded like 'crazy train' to my terrible ears.

nobody would have believed 13-year old me and 43-year old me are related

This might've been my first real exposure to Ozzy - like I didn't know his music or what he even sounded like when he just talked until they did this post-9/11 bit on Conan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9QoZgW-Qa0

the making breakfast scene on Decline of Western Civilization was definitely the origin of his transformation into America's loveably addled rock dad

I think the first time I heard Crazy Train was when erstwhile ilxor hstencil performed it karaoke in like 2002.

I was a kid at the time, but I remember when No More Tears came out and it was about as big on Rock Radio as contemporary releases like the Use Your Illusions, The Black Album, Nevermind, and Ten.

"Crazy Train," "No More Tears," and that Lita Ford duet were the only Ozzy songs I knew for a long time.