Post a controversial music opinion

my thing with fans of Phish and that ilk of jam band stuff was always, like, this music isn’t that free or interesting. in college, i quickly realized that my hippie friends were too square for the likes of the No-Neck Blues Band or Angus Maclise records I was digging, hell they were too square for any of the AmPrim stuff that I was obsessed with. they don’t actually like free music or Americana, they like gloopy bar bands that have taken a hit or two too much of the good acid. that’s fine, it’s just not for me.

i don’t listen to any of the prog or prog-adjacent bands, but understand why people like them. just not for me.

Is this the thread to post that Phish's live cover of Loaded is better than the VU album version?

Back to Rush for a second. I have a close friend who is Canadian and knows Alex Lifeson well; occasionally I get a gift shipment of Rush-branded beer.

https://shophendersonbrewing.com/en-us/collections/rush-beers

Ideal for drinking in the basement bars and/or backs of cars. Serve cool or be CAST OUT.

i never would have thought that phish had any "muso-sophistication" listening to them. the guitarist does not-as-good jerry and the rest of them do...their thing. not that they don't know how to play an instrument. maybe i listen to too much jazz. and metal. and classical. they definitely have the unfunny qualities of zappa. but even zappa's lyric writing - as cringey as it can be - is way better. ah well. whatever.
at the end of the day, at least we can all agree that they have the most hideous albums covers of any known band in the western world. though i suppose a case could be made for limp bizkit. or ani difranco.
it's just mostly when they get "funky". ah god that is some painful shit. way more painful than the dead and bob weir can definitely pain a person. or when they do the fake reggae thing oh god stop oh no bumboclat.

"Is this the thread to post that Phish's live cover of Loaded is better than the VU album version?"

if this is true that's cool they should play nothing but covers of songs by actual good bands who know how to write a memorable song. no shame in that. the velvets weren't muso-sophisticates either.

"Is this the thread to post that Phish's live cover of Loaded is better than the VU album version?"

if this is true that's cool they should play nothing but covers of songs by actual good bands who know how to write a memorable song. no shame in that. the velvets weren't muso-sophisticates either.

Scott is right, twice. I could not tell you the name of a single Phish song. But if they made cross-genre covers, like Postmodern Jukebox, that might be amusing, at least.

the one time I saw Phish they did an amazing Dear Prudence but it was a double edged sword because it was so clearly a good song and it made all their songs seem even worse

lots of cool stuff in the jam portions but it was like ok I guess we gotta tough it out through five minutes of prog Spin Doctors first

it reminds me of when i saw The Faint in the 90s and they played their 80s homages and people were digging it and everything and then they played "enola gay" and everyone just freaked the fuck out.

did i mention that phish is horrible?

haha, okay, i'll admit it, its fun to hate on phish. but i'm white and from new england. i'm allowed to.

ironically all the big Marillion fans I know have good taste, though I'm not much of a fan of them either. never got why it was them who got huge instead of IQ, who were clearly better

Dumber song structures, energetic and compelling frontperson, good management. Same reasons lots of your favourite acts that should have got huge never did! Decent management on your side is worth a hundred classic songs usually.

multiple xxxposts

i grew up around the OG phish. i remember a stoner friend of mine in school telling me about going to see Max Creek and he just stared at me and said "they had so many hats!" apparently, they had a lot of hats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u629UUUMs50

Phish remain the most painful live experience I've ever endured, sorry Phish-freaks. And that was just a 45 minute support slot in the 90s. The drummer spent one song dressed as a cleaning lady and pretended to vacuum the stage! Guitarist and bassist spent one song bouncing on trampolines! It was a kind of studied wackiness, as if to say hey you think we're great musicians? Well we are! But we can do goofy too!

This was in the days I liked TMBG and the Colorblind James Experience etc, so zany humour wasn't an issue. It was the self-regarding way they did it. Also the guitarist dude and keyboard dude would exchange smug grins when someone played an especially "hot lick". Illegal.

i love phish, feel like every convo about phish is the same fucking convo, but yeah it’s this very specific phenomenon where you have to deal with the fact that their songs are fuckin… weird and bad. even the ‘80s stuff. they just seem to take all the wrong things from classic rock and prog and fill in the space with horrible nonsense lyrics, and it doesn’t get any better when they start writing about more “normal” things in the ‘90s. the dead have *songs*, the dead had a really good lyricist in tow

but phish are just very very good at playing together, and when they really play together all the shortcomings fall away and they become a really sick and tasteful(?) jazz fusion band that doesn’t sound like any other jazz fusion band. idk, i’m not trying to convince anyone. i wrote a whole essay about this. eventually you end up liking some of their songs out of stockholm syndrome, me i became a big fan of “split open and melt”

phish fans are def one of the worst musical subcultures and they should all listen to like… actual jazz… and can

but there is not a ton of distance for me between a really great can bootleg and the top phish jams, is what i’m saying

also one thing phish has over the dead is fishman is a great drummer. ok im done

also the least controversial music opinion on earth is thinking phish sucks

i also really like “foam.” “fee” is one of the worst opening tracks to a debut album i’ve ever heard and i hate when they play it but i guess it prepares you for the whole thing

My controversial opinion re: Phish is that Junta is an amazing album and it is diminishing returns afterward

their best album is story of the ghost: “brian and robert,” “birds of a feather”… gorgeous, spooky, enervated, obv they were listening to talking heads and radiohead at the time. the songs still seem like they were written by aliens recently introduced to “songwriting” and yeah… “funky” phish is not for everyone, maybe not for anyone, but it is what got me into them

i respect your fortitude and courage stepping in here after all the phish bashing. kudos! and i like what you say about enjoying how they play together. i would never want to take that joy away from someone. and i couldn't really. i don't doubt that they get locked in and come up with some choice stuff. they've been playing together forever! and that one dead drummer was a god in 1972!! holy smokes did he rule that year. he should have been Time's man of the year.

My controversial opinion re: Phish is that Junta is an amazing album and it is diminishing returns afterward

― a hyperlink to the past (flamboyant goon tie included), Wednesday, February 28, 2024 9:13 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

maybe i can only listen to junta with today’s ears but idk i still have a rough time with like… every single one of the lyrics

Never heard them but if they sound like Can then count me in.

but yeah it’s this very specific phenomenon where you have to deal with the fact that their songs are fuckin… weird and bad.

lol i actually said to my friend after the show he took me to something like "can you be a good band but not have any good songs?"

Never heard them but if they sound like Can then count me in.

― The British Boy of Film Classification (Tom D.), Wednesday, February 28, 2024 9:18 AM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

they don't! except in fleeting moments on bootlegs! stay away!!!!

They sound like the opposite of Can

They sound like Canadian, maybe the most Canadian non-Canadian band

can-adian

They cant be as bad as Rush.

(didnt want to disappoint M@tt)

there are a lot of phish fans who adore the more hyper-composed stuff. i mean, it's pretty interesting. "fluffhead" is pretty awesome imo, unfortunately it is a song called "fluffhead." my favorite dense phish composition is "reba," even when they fuck it up royally live it is still great, but again, the chorus is, "bag it / tag it / sell it to the butcher in the store," like wtf

i'm prob one of the few who is like... when they get more normal and earnest in the '90s it's like a relief, and it becomes much easier for me to like them. the goofy shit has a "arent we being so wacky" vibe that i still find it hard to get past

i am now thinking about one of my favorite phish jams, "waves" from the IT festival, "waves" is absolutely one of my favorite phish songs, i guess it's possible ppl would hate it on first contact because it's not like phish ever get less phishy but i love the gentleness of its recurring riff, and the lyrics/vocals are not terrible (high bar for this band), and eventually the song subsides into this soundworld that sounds like echoes off a cave wall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jcVJsoKit4

ok sorry i'm officially done now

catching up to the convo, the best rush album is signals and the best rush song is "the analog kid"

I used to know someone who swore blind that song was just about trees arguing with each other, and wasn't a metaphor of any kind.

― doleful lundgren (Matt #2), Tuesday, February 27, 2024 3:31 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

^^ this cracked me up

oh right i forgot none of them can sing either.

went to one phish show, fell asleep during a "40-minute 'tweezer'" which sounds unpleasant but is mostly just boring

its almost like the maga thing for phishheads. we DARE you not to like this horrible stuff! proto-maga.

lol at phish sounding like can

phish fans are def one of the worst musical subcultures and they should all listen to like… actual jazz…

Facts. I went to a small liberal arts college that was like Phish fan central and transferred as soon as I possibly could. Still have Lawn Boy somewhere which I apparently stole from my college boyfriend because it has his initials written on it. God knows why he owned it or why I wound up with it but I've never been able to get rid of it because it's like an archeological artifact at this point. It does have bouncing round the room on it which is the only of their songs I've ever liked even a tiny bit.

here see me make the same points i've made itt in this essay https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/learning-to-love-phish/

why can't there be an awesome jam band scene of bands who play great psych (like, actual psych rock not goofy flat-footed bar boogie) - with a sprinkling of pretty folk/country rock if they want - with jazz ability and improvisation? why do they all have to emulate the worst excesses of the dead?

i guess i was always kinda hoping psych jazz would be more of a thing. and less of a rock thing.

i always wanted there to be death metal improv too but actual death metal not zorn style or whatever. just death metal bands who go out. way out.

i'm gonna read that but must mention how painful it is to look at the picture at the top of it. omg they are really something to look at. jesus.

damn i would prob be one of the five ppl who really love free improv death metal

There are bands that do jam band like Can did jam band but when I’ve seen the three or four I’ve been excited to see they’ve always been missing something (a magnetic frontman)

i've been digging this album a lot. i love when extreme metal includes horns. this band also includes slide guitar on one track which is a treat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqnvQC124wM

Can didn't have a magnetic frontman after 1973 though.

(xp)

i love the band Chaos Echoes from France - think they are done though - and sometimes when i hear them i think of the possibilities. of free improv metal. or even a band like deathspell omega. structure/no structure. divorced from any 60s stuff. feels like some sort of future. that's why i love my pal keith's Utech Records so much. everything he puts out screams possibility. a way out. a way further...further away from ken kesey. the astral black metal scene has blown up in recent years.

Yeah, Chaos Echoes are amazing, and Catatonic Effigy (a one-off project I think) are equally great; I reviewed their one album for The Wire. I wish more death metal bands would make room for improvisation. As long as it doesn't wind up sounding like Imperial Triumphant, who I really want to like more than I do. They have their moments but I'm not in the mood for most of what they do about 363 days out of the year.

https://ilusorecords.bandcamp.com/album/putrid-tendency

Ivy! ha. sorry. i've been back here for awhile but i forgot that your name had changed. i love the name Ivy! and now i know that i have always loved your love for stuff i don't like! and you like a lot of stuff i don't like. haha! you really have a way of selling it. okay gonna read your phish thing. god help me.

and now i know that i have always loved your love for stuff i don't like! and you like a lot of stuff i don't like. haha! you really have a way of selling it.

Seconded. Our tastes are so far apart it's like we're living in the mirror universes from Fringe, but the enthusiasm is always welcome.

great phish posts ivy

shhhhhh pipe down stop encouraging her

;)