Post a controversial music opinion

To explain what I mean: the proliferation of singer-songwriters (especially on Top 40) is an extension of the '60s, all the great neo-classical soul of 1970-72 (Al Green, Stylistics, Spinners, etc.) is an extension of the '60s, and just in general Top 40 is filled with people trying to fill the vacuum created by the Beatles breaking up. The '70s start with the ascension of glam and K-Tel junk in '73, plus the first stirrings of disco.

"Classic" rock eras, ranked:

1953-1959
1969-1975
1964-1969
1960-1963

1960-1963 is the worst because there was really nothing happening at all, but there was a lot of incredibly terrible music made in 1964-1969, so it's a weird kind of toss-up situation.

I would break it down by saying that I would keep all my comps of doo-wop, “Golden Age of American Rock ‘n’ Roll,” and girl-group music over most any Sixties Rock Albums™️ (Dylan and a few other things aside)… but at that point I’m really just talking stylistic preferences and not decades, I guess.

I wonder what DJP would have thought if it had been the actual Jonathan Richman and not this Johnathan Richmon imposter.

1960-1963 is the worst because there was really nothing happening at all

I think it's fairly easy to generate a list that says otherwise. If you judge that era by the worst of it--the teen idols--yes, but there was much, much more.

nothing happening at all

From what I understand, the solution was to tune to a “New York station”…

lol

ILX poster finefinemusic to thread!

I've always taken an the opposite view, that the '60s don't really end till '73.

I guess you can look at it in different ways. I admit that it's hard to say '69 is not part of the '60s when Woodstock happened in '69. But at least in terms of what currents were starting to take hold, I see musical events like "Nashville Skyline" and "The Gilded Palace of Sin" and "Trout Mask Replica" and "Let It Bleed" happening. Cultural events like Nixon taking office and the draft lottery starting. It seems like the vibes were shifting. But there are always multiple eras coexisting, especially in music.

1960-1963 is the worst because there was really nothing happening at all

"Be My Baby" is 1963, arguably one of the greatest rock singles of all time.

I saw Johnathan Richmon do a solo show at a small nightclub while I was in college and it was, without hyperbole, one of the worst shows I have ever seen my life.

The rest of the crowd absolutely loved it 30 years later I still cannot fathom why

I think the Modern Lovers LP is great and Richman's solo career is mostly garbage.

'60-'63: beginning of Motown, girl-group heyday, Sam Cooke and Ray Charles all over the Top 40, Beach Boys and Four Seasons, Gene Pitney/Del Shannon/Roy Orbison...there's just so much.

^^Plus the Doo Wop revival. A lot of what we think of as classic '50s Doo Wop records where actually made in '60-'62.

Yeah, tons of the tracks on those Golden Age comps are from that period...

In addition to the Beach Boys, there was Surf Rock in general.

Like just check out the tracklist of the first volume... a sprinkling of these bangers are from '58/'59 (and two are from '56), but the rest are '60-'63: https://acerecords.co.uk/the-golden-age-of-american-rock-n-roll

As for Richman – Jonathan Sings! is the only solo album I really have an ear for... but the Modern Lovers album, man

(xpost) Yes--came back to post about the same thing, the big doo-wop revival. We're all just talking about the really visible stuff so far--there were also incredible one-offs like Donnie Brooks' "Mission Bell," Dick & Dee's "The Mountain's High," Gene Chandler's "Duke of Earl," etc. (Not necessarily one-hit wonders, but people strongly identified with one song.) I think those all fall into the '60-63 window.

Dick & Dee's "The Mountain's High,"

fucking love this tune, great secret weapon at my restaurant/bar DJ gig

I also love that track, a pal used to drop it at his soul nights

Jonathan Richman is a class act, a first rate songwriter, a one of a kind human being, a daily inspiration

So yes, I agree that some of the posts itt are v controversial, good job

"The Mountain's High" is epic--always though of that, "Mission Bell," and the Miracles' "Way Over There" (same '60-63 window) as kind of a mini-genre of Apocalyptic Early-'60s Pop.

Wow, I don’t think I’d ever heard “Way Over There”… what a great song

My Motown knowledge is pretty underbaked (other than the big songs everyone knows)

dig in! there is so much goodness. they have cool motown comps of lesser known great stuff that are put together well.

Jonathan Richman is a class act, a first rate songwriter, a one of a kind human being, a daily inspiration

agree

he is also a voice of resistance to change, albeit a very friendly one

boring motherfucker who can’t sing

they have cool motown comps of lesser known great stuff that are put together well.

― scott seward, Friday, February 23, 2024 11:48 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

any you'd recommend? The lesser known Motown stuff is a big blind spot for me, but I always enjoy these songs when they turn up anywhere

Jojo saw the Velvet Underground 157 times, his songs have been covered by Wire (1976!), The Sex Pistols (1979!), Arthur Russell, David Bowie, Iggy Pop, John Cale, Siouxsie & The Banshees...

But one thing I learned recently (I even inquired about it on a thread on ILM but this detail was not mentioned) is that his shift away from proto-punk to more widely-approachable songwriting was due to his volunteering at the Boston Children's Hospital singing and playing for terminally ill children who were often alone and dying and he was haunted by that experience and was challenged to bring them joy.

Another anecdote is he played a show for kids at our local independent bookstore a year ago after working his day job all day. He looked exhausted, face sunburnt and wrinkled ... clothes covered with his dust, dirt and cement... but yet, after he was handed a guitar he transformed into a professional musician out of nowhere and kept the kids in rapt attention, smiling and singing along, it was really supernatural.

I thought Jojo was a man from Tucson, Arizona

Putting this out there re:Motown is the importance of MONO MIXES. If you're still doing the physical media CD thing, make it a priority to find comps from the '90s in the "Anthology" and "Ultimate Collection" lines, plus the Box Sets issued during that period. The Hitsville USA v/a is a terrific label primer. Many of these sets are also on streaming services.

Streaming-wise, those yearly "Complete Singles" boxes are also worth exploring. They've also spun off several single-artist singles sets from those collections as well that are good deep dives.

even as familiar as i am with richman, seeing him in the vu doc was about as heartening and cheering as a musician can be. i know it’s to the choir here, but he is a miraculous figure really. what a fuckin life, apparently done well.

after working his day job all day. He looked exhausted, face sunburnt and wrinkled ... clothes covered with his dust, dirt and cement...

Mr. Richman also appeared as a singing narrator in the 1998 film There's Something About Mary, and has a second career as a stonemason creating garden walls, patios and bread ovens. “Sometimes I wish there were more than 24 hours in a day.

I mean, how many copies do you think his biggest record sold?

Millions in royalties from the Sex Pistols doing "Roadrunner" on Swindle.

Every week for the past 40 years, he’s received a fat royalty check in the mail from San Andreas Records for the cover version of “Pablo Picasso” that appears on the Repo Man soundtrack.

Don't forget those sweet John Cale royalties!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXtBsikiY50

I could have sworn Cale had a co-write on that song. Was that ever mis-printed somewhere?

Not that I ever heard, though it may have been Cale playing piano on the album track.

don't forget all that sweet galaxie 500 money. they sold millions of albums in latvia.

In this 2015 interview, he says he makes his living doing music, and the masonry is a side business:

AM: How much are you still involved with the music industry? Are you backing away from it at all?

JR: I still make my living doing it. It’s what I do.

i can see it being some sort of nod to jesus or something. seems like his vibe. pizza ovens more chill than tables, chairs, and oaken chests.

he is also a voice of resistance to change, albeit a very friendly one

― A street taco cart named Des'ree (Deflatormouse)

would like to hear more about this, i don't know very much about the man beyond those early modern loves recordings

I was actually looking for his "The Fading Of An Old World" but it is not on youtube, as a specific counterpoint to this

it's on his recent album "Sa" and is a rewrite/rejection of "Old World"

I thought Jojo was a man from Tucson, Arizona

― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table)

ok galaxy brain take, paul mccartney is actually trying to be an _ally_ when he talks about sweet loretta martin

"sweet loretta martin" is actually transmasculine - he "thought (he) was a woman" but he was actually a man. then mccartney fucks it all up by misgendering him, but HE MEANT WELL

yeah there's no way to read that verse without concluding that mccartney fucked it up. UNLESS. WHAT IF SWEET LORETTA MARTIN IS A MAN BUT CHOOSES TO USE SHE/HER PRONOUNS. Yeah. THERE WE GO. She thought for a while she was a "transsexual", decided she wasn't, now thinks of herself as a man but still presents femme and uses she/her pronouns.

basically i don't personally currently think of the song as being shitty in the same way "lola" is. sweet loretta martin's gender identity is in no way central to the song. ahhh, but then we get to the enoch powell version and god now the beatles fans are going to have all kinds of opinions on how powell's racism relates to the arguable transphobia represented in the song and i don't care, it's really not a very good song as beatles songs go. tina turner did a good version.

"solid gold easy action" is a great fucking song and i'm mostly over the fact that "she's a dude" is part of the lyrics. for all i know t. rex is just saying she wears nudie suits.

xp right, that stuff is fairly unambiguous on the early modern lovers records. he did a wonderful reddit ama where he gets into a lot of this

he doesn't use computers, he doesn't have air conditioning... he also seems to advocate a 'be here now' kind of attitude

he also talks about playing children's hospitals as the point when he realized he's here to play for the people who need it most, or something to that effect- he wants to give something really substantial, what can be of use. and that's an important bias to have for understanding his work imo, it's missing from the standard narrative about how he decided the modern lovers are too loud and electric and he wants to make kiddie songs instead, as though it were some kind of heel turn. he is not somebody who puts art on a pedestal.

i wasn't saying he's a fascist, or sus, or anything tbc. he is more sentimental/romantic obv

i really think, read his interviews because they are wonderful and he says it all better himself.

there's one where he talks about his old neighborhood growing up, how every sunday everyone hung out in their front yards all day and everyone keps their doors open, and like he's pining for this sense of community, it's not necessarily as problematic as i make it sound, but i can't find it easily.

my uncontroversial opinion is that decades are a useless fiction where they're a shorthand for styles that have no clear beginning or end point- imo, just refer directly to the style.
but they might be useful for talking about revivals that average different styles together