Taking Sides: Liverpool vs Everton

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I also enjoyed Alan Hansen's considered opinion of Didier Drogba.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 21 April 2005 14:27 (nineteen years ago) link

For Liverpool it's where they should finish in a poor season, given the money they've spent.

But think of the injuries!

$V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 21 April 2005 14:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Neville missed his target. He would be no good on a coconut shy.

Actually, Neville's head as a target in a coconut shy is a very pleasing idea.

Mooro (Mooro), Thursday, 21 April 2005 17:45 (nineteen years ago) link

has anyone done the Premiership predictor on the BBC Sport website? i get Bolton to take 4th place at the Reebok, last day of the season. devastating. as long as it's not Liverpool, i suppose.

Lee F# (fsharp), Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:24 (nineteen years ago) link

bah, bet they haven't got a conference predictor, anyway it would BREAK under the complexity...

CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 21 April 2005 19:36 (nineteen years ago) link

I did it. Villa did ever so well, considering.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 22 April 2005 09:06 (nineteen years ago) link

i also got Man City to finished 8th, which makes me glad i'm not a betting man anymore.

Lee F# (fsharp), Friday, 22 April 2005 10:57 (nineteen years ago) link

I ended up with Everton holding 4th by 4 points from Liverpool, but there were lots of predictions I didn't much believe in, so who knows? I had the three promoted sides going down.

I note the BBC has 5th and 6th going into the UEFA. Who are the third team going into the UEFA Cup? I believe you don't get a place for losing League Cup finalist, and the two FA Cup finalists are both heading for the CL. Isn't 7th worth a place this year?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 22 April 2005 11:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, it's a big, big, big, big night tonight for Liverpool and Everton fans. I wonder how they are coping with the build-up, la.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 13:36 (nineteen years ago) link

I am too nervous to watch it, so I will be spending the evening listening to people discussing postpunk instead.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 13:42 (nineteen years ago) link

drat, can't get to watch it anywhere as its on sky. will just have to wait for second leg on itv.

Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 14:04 (nineteen years ago) link

I did wonder how you'd resolve your little dilemma, Jerry. Not even taking a little radio in there?

7th = UEFA Cup this season, yes. Which is why Spurs' defeat at Arsenal meant Everton were guaranteed some flavour of Euro footy in 05-06.

I think all this tittle-tattle in the papers about the FA asking for a 5th CL place is nonsense and makes us Blues look like a bunch of whining jessies. OF COURSE, the holders should defend their trophy. Good luck to 'em. I don't give a stuff about the CL anyway*, I just want to finish above the Redshite. 4-0 home win tonight would be nice though.

(* - OK, maybe I do)

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 14:06 (nineteen years ago) link

Sorry Liverpool fans. I put £10 on liverpool to win with a return of £55.

I'm not known for my good fortune.

Hari A$hur$t (Toaster), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 14:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Go, Nipper, Go! Give 'em hell! Goddam limeys.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:10 (nineteen years ago) link

At the risk of sounding cruel, the chances of Liverpool beating Chelsea then beating what looks likely to be AC Milan seem slim at best. Chris Kirkland, Hamann, and Josemi are out, Cisse and Kewell aren't going to be able to play for 90 minutes, and Baros is still a question. Liverpool should be playing for a hard won draw tonight imho.

Asking for 5 English places is not only unfair but premature and why would any real self-respecting supporter want their club to get into a competition by any other means than the earning it the regular way?

M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Any country having more than ONE place in the "Champions" League isn't *fair*, Michael - the country who wins the thing getting an extra place seems much fairer than arbitrarily giving the big moneyed countries more/better places than the minnows.

Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:31 (nineteen years ago) link

My dad has already headed off to the match - as he's actually there, my loyalties will be marginally in Chelsea's favour, probably. This is also because I don't think Liverpool will beat AC Milan, but I think Chelsea might.

Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:32 (nineteen years ago) link

It was typical of England to want an extra place, and typical that the FA used it as a way of trying to wriggle out of making a ruling they should have made years ago.

Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:36 (nineteen years ago) link

the country who wins the thing getting an extra place seems much fairer than arbitrarily giving the big moneyed countries more/better places than the minnows.

So Man U's victory over Bayern gave England 4 places. How many places do Spain and Italy have?

M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Also, Mark, the big moneyed countries are far more likely to win so, while they're actually required to win the whole shebang to collect their extra place, it's still just a window dressing in a way.

M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:40 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't see why an extra place for one year to the country that provides the winner is some kind of travesty? Maybe it's a travesty for the Kyrgyzstani champions who get shuffled down to the UEFA cup or something.

Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I obviously don't understand how this works. It was my understanding that Man U's 1999 CL victory gave England its 4 place. Is that not the case?

M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Funnily enough, although we've been over this time and time again, I've just looked again at the UEFA Coefficients table* and oddly, there does seem to be provision for the holders entering separately (and therefore in addition to) their national association's allocation. 16 clubs enter the league phase directly (joined by another 16 who make it out of the qualifying), and the makeup of the 16 appears to be:

two each from Spain, England, Italy, Germany, France, Portugal
one each from Greece, Holland, Czech Rep
the previous year's champions

So, WTF?

(Incidentally, top three in table get seven Euro places [4 CL, 3 UEFA], next three get six [3 CL, 3 UEFA], next two also get six [2 CL, 4 UEFA] and then it rather arbitrarily drops to four, split evenly between comps [9th thru 15th] or just with one CL place [16th thru 21st]...)

(* - it's here: http://www.geocities.com/jfaugeras/UC200304.html
Sorry, brain is fried today, can't do blue writing).

M White: ManYoo's win probably indirectly gave England its fourth spot because it pushed Eng up the coeff table.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 15:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Thank you, Michael. I will have to study that as, when I perused the page, my brane broke.

M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 16:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Ok, forget that - UEFA rules state explicitly that no more than 4 clubs from one nation can compete in the CL. Which leads to:

If the defending cup holder already qualified directly for the group stage of the Champions League, the champion of the 10th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the group stage, the champion of the 16th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the 3rd qualifying round, and the champions of the 26th and 27th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the 2nd qualifying round. Similar changes are made if the cup holder already qualified directly for one of the qualification rounds, or if the cup holder did not qualify directly but is from one of the top three ranked countries.

It's kinda interestin' cos it means L'pool and Chelsea would make it into the group stage directly and Arsenal & ManYoo's battle for 2nd spot in the Premiership would be meaningless - they'd both go into r3 of the qualies.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 16:23 (nineteen years ago) link

One of the all-time great bits of commentary when he was explaining how much Jamie Carragher loves Liverpool - "If you cut him, he'd BLEED red!"

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 19:36 (nineteen years ago) link

I absolutely hat ethat commentator, almost as much as I hate Andy "no, not biased at all" Gray.

A decent performance, I'm sure Chelsea fans will be here soon, beingquite cocky saying things like "oh yes, we'll do them away, no problem" all with that authority that a decent bit of success after years in the doldrums gives, we've been hearing it all season.

Saves made by Dudek - 0

made by Cech - 2 (including one of the best I've seen in a long time)

all the posession in the world doesn't necessarily give you a goal.

Jamie Carragher = Colossus

Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 19:45 (nineteen years ago) link

All true - Andy Gray was pretty overt in how grudging he was whenever praising Liverpool. I still fancy Chelsea - you need to win, they need to win or draw. I still think they're favourites, but this was a good Liverpool performance, and the odds have tilted some in your direction.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 19:48 (nineteen years ago) link

Part of me thinks Chelsea will sneak through on away goals, but then I thought they'd win 2-0 tonight. If Liverpool can play like they did for the first 20 minutes against Juventus at Anfield they'll have them.

The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link

jamie, are you actually living in Walthamstow now?

Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 19:59 (nineteen years ago) link

No, but we've put an offer in on a flat in Bemsted Road (near Lloyd Park).

The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:08 (nineteen years ago) link

ha ha, about 5 minutes (at the most) walk from us

upstairs or downstairs?

Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Upstairs. Hopefully it'll all go through by the end of June.

The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:16 (nineteen years ago) link

excellent stuff, it'll be similar to ours (there are small variants in the Warners) pint in the summer?

ahem, back to footie everyone.....

Porkpie (porkpie), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:21 (nineteen years ago) link

i reckon liverpool will do it.

Hari A$hur$t (Toaster), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Even without Xabi next game?

M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:28 (nineteen years ago) link

xpost - yeah.

The Horse of Babylon's Butler (the pirate king), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Dudek running in the wrong direction to the ball and having to backtrack to stop it running into his own net was hilarious. I love it when he drops such utter clangers when there is no one remotely dangerous anywhere near the area.

Liverpool can nick this, I reckon. But its unlikely considering they only need to concede one against an all-guns-blazing Chelsea to go out.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Chelsea are likely to have Duff available on 5/3 too.

M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 27 April 2005 20:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Liverpool could (and perhaps should) have won last night - probably as good a performance as away vs Juve. Chelsea seemed bereft of ideas and, even with another half hour vs Bolton on Saturday, I doubt Robben will be any sharper by next Tuesday. Liverpool would do well to play all their matches midweek.

The lack of an away goal may be crucial but then I thought that in 2001 when LFC held Barcelona goallessly; they kept them out at Anfield too and McAllister stuck home a penalty to take them into the final.

I have four specific results in mind over the next nine days that would enable me to finally crack open that sparkling stuff in the fridge (which should really have been drunk on Feb 14). Only one of them is an Everton win.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 28 April 2005 08:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Cech's save was indeed one of the best I've seen, in a few years maybe, at least since that David Seaman one against Fulham (I think) in the FA Cup. Baros really connected with that ball well.

Still feel the lack of away goal might make it too much of a mountain to climb. Is Duff back for the next leg? I can only imagine the horror....

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 28 April 2005 08:46 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not sure you can point the finger of giggles at Dudek for that crazy spinning ball. It was a bit of a shit-arse boring game, patternless for much of the match with some of the best midfielders in the world giving the ball away in a mongy fashion (Gerrard, Lampard, Alonso, Makelele all made crazy crap passes).

Harry Kewell and Luis Garcia look identical.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:03 (nineteen years ago) link

it really does seem set up for Liverpool to finish it off at Anfield. it's a bit like Arsenal vs Chelsea last year - the contrariness of football is casting its long shadow over the fixture.

however, if Milan play Liverpool in the final, it will be such a mauling that the ref will probably have to stop the match. so, despite other prejudices, i hope i am wrong and Chelsea win it.

Lee F# (fsharp), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:12 (nineteen years ago) link

however, if Milan play Liverpool in the final, it will be such a mauling that the ref will probably have to stop the match

Did you see the ease with which PSV pulled apart the Milan defence on Tuesday? 15 shots on goal in the second half - with better finishing Milan would be out by now. 2-0 was a travesty. Liverpool's campaign has been all about saying "You're not all that" to everyone they've played. I expected them to leak goals to Leverkusen, Juve and again last night. Their stubborn refusal to carry their frequently laughable Premiership form into Europe is an absolute agony to me. Vice versa for a few others on this thread, I guess.

1-0 on Tuesday and 1-0 in Istanbul. I can already taste the sulphur.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Can someone have a word with the Liverpool players about short corners and offsides? The first time made me laugh, but the second made me weep like an Italian woman returning home to find her loving son dead on the porch, killed by bees.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:20 (nineteen years ago) link

last night's game was a dreary, ugly spectacle for a neutral such as myself.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:36 (nineteen years ago) link

but props to liverpool, i guess. i think chelsea will get either a 1-0 win or 1-1 draw in the 2nd leg, though.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 28 April 2005 09:39 (nineteen years ago) link

So why the absolutely appalling league form and then such solid displays in Europe?

It's infuriating. I suppose the squad is depleted but still.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 28 April 2005 10:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Can someone have a word with the Liverpool players about short corners and offsides?

Chelsea had men on the posts for both corners, playing the entire field onside, the linesman got it wrong.
Taking short corners when you can ping a dead ball in as well as Gerrard or Riise is baffling all the same.

Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 28 April 2005 10:29 (nineteen years ago) link

They stepped up as soon as the short corner happened. It was about the only thing the referee's bitch got right.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 28 April 2005 10:32 (nineteen years ago) link


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