True Detective Season 4: Night Country (Ice Capades!)

So did this turn out to be better than Fargo s5, or

I am not sure it worked as horror, as a mystery or as a policier but I didn’t hate it. Leaving aside the forced True Detective references, it would be interesting to know whether the original vision was so heavily focused on the two lead characters or had more balance with the community at large.

Unperson’s wife otm — the reversal of roles in that scene plus the fact that no one would have considered it was them made for a very satisfying conclusion to that storyline for me.

I’m still a little confused about who Holden is/was? I get the emotional impact of losing him but unless I’m just forgetting, idk more than “kid who died” about this character.

Also the scenes in the ice cave were SO stressful. I’m scared of caves I think.

We're going to Iceland next month and this show really got me in the mood for parkas and crampons. We will NOT be exploring ice caves.

I'm not easy with caves or confined spaces, even in movies. I'm haunted by that irl story about the caver who crawled into an extremely narrow dead end, got themselves firmly wedged in there and couldn't be rescued.

I’m still a little confused about who Holden is/was?

Danvers' son, that seemed fairly explicit. I'm not sure who the father was or what happened to him.

Yes -- I gathered that she was his caretaker/mother, but was he adopted? Who was the father? I guess it doesn't matter ultimately, maybe that is the point? IDK.

xp I actually really like small spaces and am not claustrophobic for the most part. Still, I remember very clearly one time my boo and I were hiking and there was a known cave entrance. We walked up to it, talked about checking it out, I was feeling brave and got about half of my body inside and was immediately seized by a wave of ABSOLUTELY NOT and scooted right tf out. The prevailing feeling was "not going out like that" and I was glad my body's danger sensors still worked. Do NOT crawl under the earth's surface.

When I was watching these scenes I kept worrying they wouldn't remember which way they turned and would be lost down there. When they finally found the entrance to the lab I was SO relieved. At least they can chill in this cursed lab.

My read was that Danvers married Leah's dad, they had Holden, and Holden + dad were killed in a car accident, leaving Danvers and Leah as the family unit.

Ahhh, ok. I guess I missed that, or forgot. That makes sense.

One thing I thought was cute was whenever someone was chomping on a bag of chips (Cheetos, Funyuns) they always offered to share it with the person they were with -- Prior and Leah in the jail, Danvers and Navarro in the lab. That was a nice realistic touch.

haha, I had to go back and watch previous episodes when Holden was mentioned because I forgot who he was! Like I was talking about earlier, the medium changes the way you watch these things.

I think I was also confused because I thought Danvers was relatively new to this environment, that she had been transferred there in spite by Dr Who, so it was confusing that she had a whole family storyline that, apparently, was also set in this same town.

I think I was also confused because I thought Danvers was relatively new to this environment, that she had been transferred there in spite by Dr Who, so it was confusing that she had a whole family storyline that, apparently, was also set in this same town.

Some stray thoughts & questions:

—I can’t remember if this was mentioned upthrasd or elsewhere in the internet but major kudos to the cinematographer for making a show set almost entirely at night but always keeping the action visible. All other tv shows please take note, it can be done.

—re the mysterious tongue… one clue which I can’t put together is on that last night in Tsalal when Danvers and Navarro solve the mystery of the hatch - at one point Danvers looks under the table and sees a residue where the tongue had been. At this point weeks have gone by - what does that mean that there would still be some kind of substance still there?

At this point weeks have gone by - what does that mean that there would still be some kind of substance still there?

Ectoplasm, obviously.

otm re cinematography — also the myriad ways they made all the different types of snow/ice look beautiful and/or creepy

my one complaint, or a complaint, and maybe it's a question of the shorter season, is at the end when beardo is like "we could've saved the world", I feel like the show could've spent more time setting that up, so you felt like these guys really felt like something was at stake. Not that that would justify killing Annie obviously, but it just seemed to come out of nowhere. Until then I read the tsalal guys as well-meaning scientists who maybe fudged numbers for their funder, maybe it would've felt more impactful if it built up the sense of what they thought was at stake instead of introducing it at the last minute?

Also, all of Clark's Carcosa-style sculpture work, his notebook, they did lay groundwork for him going insane. Just guilt about Annie with some fan-service for season 1 stans?

I assumed guilt, coupled with his obvious loneliness, guilt over his distance from his son, slowly going a little batty in the long, dark winter. It may have been fan service, but I'm glad they just obliquely hinted at that stuff rather than leaning into it (obviously aside from THAT line).

yeah, and I know everybody already said this, but that pure groan-worthy cringe.

The falling through the ice a few times on the other hand I found very effective.

Honestly, after the Tuttle namedrop earlier and the Cohle revelation, I was bracing myself for some dumb "oh look, Bobby Ray Tuttle killed those scientists because they found their new ritual sacrifice room buried in the ice" twist so I was pretty pleased by the ultimate reveal. The more I let the finale sit, the more I like it.

my one complaint, or a complaint, and maybe it's a question of the shorter season, is at the end when beardo is like "we could've saved the world", I feel like the show could've spent more time setting that up, so you felt like these guys really felt like something was at stake. Not that that would justify killing Annie obviously, but it just seemed to come out of nowhere. Until then I read the tsalal guys as well-meaning scientists who maybe fudged numbers for their funder, maybe it would've felt more impactful if it built up the sense of what they thought was at stake instead of introducing it at the last minute?

otm - this was the weak part of the story. Like... in what was is the ancient DNA locked in the permafrost supposed to save humanity exactly? That it's worth secretly poisoning a whole town? That is a fairly large MacGuffin to just gloss over.

On the other hand I thought the twist with the ladies from the town was terrific, even as their story was only peripherally told in the previous five episodes.

I think they mentioned in passing that they’d discovered the secret to ending cellular decay.

yeah like generalized “cancer” cure was i thought thrown in amidst the technobabble

That just feels so fantastical... like the writers were just throwing darts at why it would be important for scientists to be doing the work they were doing. It feels totally half-baked.

I’m telling you, they needed at least two more episodes to really make this a satisfying season.

yeah i agree with that for sure

Yeah I've worked in a lab processing fresh blood & tissue samples for DNA and RNA, and no part of the science here makes sense. It's not important though, I just treated it like pure fantasy magic and pretended to hear something other than the words they were literally saying.

^yeah the “explanation” was just a bunch of science words put together. I treated it the same way.

Well I find it irritating how tossed off it was, considering it's the main driver for the scientists' behavior.

Are you familiar with the term "MacGuffin"? Remember how in the movie Ronin everyone's chasing a suitcase, and at one point Robert De Niro's character literally asks another character, "What's in the suitcase?" and she says, "You don't need to know"? Same deal here. They were working on Magical Mystery Miracle Science Stuff.

but WHY is that one ring so powerful

I don't need it to be scientifically accurate or even make sense. But a macguffin only works if you know it's there. This was more of a negative deus ex machina, something I just made up.

overall this season (I didn't watch seasons 1-3) does feel like it had huge swathes of narrative edited out of it

Wouldn't the True Detective MacGuffin be the supernatural elements? The mumbo jumbo sciencey explanation (and most of the finale) was more like opening the Pulp Fiction suitcase and revealing that it was just full of LED lights.

but WHY is that one ring so powerful

If you'll allow me to explain. *several centuries pass*

overall this season (I didn't watch seasons 1-3) does feel like it had huge swathes of narrative edited out of it

that's ok, seasons 1 & 2 are huge swaths of narrative that go nowhere (I like season 1 actually but the misdirection with the supernatural or weird elements is way more irritating there in the end). Season 3 is exceptional storytelling though, feels like everyone has over looked how good it is.

overall this season (I didn't watch seasons 1-3) does feel like it had huge swathes of narrative edited out of it

that's ok, seasons 1 & 2 are huge swaths of narrative that go nowhere (I like season 1 actually but the misdirection with the supernatural or weird elements is way more irritating there in the end). Season 3 is exceptional storytelling though, feels like everyone has over looked how good it is.

Never got past two episodes of season 2 but really liked season 3.

I'm still kinda annoyed that they just let the explanation of "yeah were researching something and it cures EVERYTHING" stand as a plot point.

And here we go

https://deadline.com/2024/02/true-detective-renewed-season-5-hbo-issa-lopez-overall-deal-1235834470/

Mostly I'm just amused about how much this'll piss off Pizzolatto.

it's a long fucking night, even the dead get bored

my one complaint, or a complaint, and maybe it's a question of the shorter season, is at the end when beardo is like "we could've saved the world", I feel like the show could've spent more time setting that up, so you felt like these guys really felt like something was at stake. Not that that would justify killing Annie obviously, but it just seemed to come out of nowhere. Until then I read the tsalal guys as well-meaning scientists who maybe fudged numbers for their funder, maybe it would've felt more impactful if it built up the sense of what they thought was at stake instead of introducing it at the last minute?

otm - this was the weak part of the story. Like... in what was is the ancient DNA locked in the permafrost supposed to save humanity exactly? That it's worth secretly poisoning a whole town? That is a fairly large MacGuffin to just gloss over.

― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Tuesday, February 20, 2024 bookmarkflaglink

Interesting contrast can be found in the new Apple show Constellation, where Jonathan Banks is fixated on the discovery of a "new kind of matter and a double quantum helix" or whatever it is he says. It's equal to True Detective insofar as it's a totally outlandish MacGuffin. But him telegraphing its importance early on, vs the way it felt kinda tacked on in TD, just shows that the right writer can make a macguffin feel meaningful.

Perhaps another reason why it felt like a harder sell in TD is because it felt like a piece of sci-fi storytelling in a show that, while flirting with the supernatural, was not a science fiction show. Whereas that's squarely Constellation's genre.

the moment Danvers got trapped, put her gun away and then proceeded to find some useful tool to break glass was offensively dumb by even this show's standards.

uh shooting toughened glass in a confined space? dude that would mean shooting herself via ricochet

we're talking television show logic, c'mon. toughened glass bullet ricochet is the least of a screenwriter's concerns.

thing is that every circle is flat

Good thing Jodie Foster is in this. Otherwise it would be some second tier Netflix horror schlock.

Great interview with Reis here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/17/style/kali-reis-true-detective.html

Despite the taste of HBO fame, Ms. Reis has no plans to change: Authenticity is nonnegotiable with her. “On the red carpet, you’re supposed to wear Gucci, and I’m like: ‘Listen, I don’t wear heels. I wear all black,’” she said.