Awesome Audiophile Snake Oil

Those vintage Kefs look pretty amazing.

They're like having a pair of warm menhirs in the room. In amazing nick too. I've always had a sneaking suspicion I'm not using them right. I shouldn't be allowed nice things.

I'll look up some Apollo stands, emsworth.

OK, after much fiddling with wires, I have determined that the monitor out does kind of sort of work. I was able to get a signal to the Edifier speakers when the input was set to Tape (which is the main input I use for the bluetooth connection from my phone) as well as Aux (which is for my turntable). Monitor does not work for CD/DVD, which is what I use for the TV and Blu Ray player. So it might be feasible to add a separate amp, but I'd have to use the kenwood amp for TV. This leads me to wonder if there are any little amps like the ones linked that are good for multi component systems. I can't seem to find any receivers designed just for managing multiple sources that don't have their own dedicated amp.

As for the Polks, they may well be too big for the room (I sit maybe 11 feet away from them), but I'm holding on to them for now. they sound good, I just think there may be ways to make them sound better. Is the suggestion to fill the front port? There is no rear port. I could see that being an option if I added a sub, but for now probably need the bass response. The speakers don't sit flat on the floor, they have feet that raise them about an inch, but perhaps could go higher?

Father in law has some old KEFs from the 80s, i adore them. Anything you play just seems to slowly fall out of them like a wooly old sock. I don't know if I'd like them as my only system but i get my fill when I'm up in Toronto

i bet monitor out was intentionally disabled for the CD/DVD input to prevent illicit taping of copyrighted music and movies!

you can use a passive rca switcher like this one. but down this path lies madness. and you don't even know if you like that amp yet.

i think all i can glean from your setup is that your receiver is 20+ years old and your TV probably is too. at the risk of throwing you another curve ball, you could also consider getting a modern receiver with some sort of DSP (digital signal processing) which is what your edifier has as well and might be contributing to the imaging/3D effect you like. that'd cost a bit more than a $50 amp but might tick more of your boxes.

i wouldn't change the speakers out.

Moodles yes fill the front port - I have VAF DC-7s which are a midpriced Australian model of similar size to your Polks, I have them in quite a large room and jammed a sock in the front ports, immediately the bass calmed down and everything snapped into focus. No need to raise them (the tweeter should be at ear level) but I would put spike feet on them too. If you have carpet it's no problem, if you have floorboards it's your call, but a sound absorbent rug (+ wall hanging behind, if compatible with your decor) would probably do wonders. A subwoofer is very unlikely to help unless you do something more drastic like cut the bass to the Polks or disconnect the lower drivers.
The Pioneers I mentioned above are model SPBS22LR designed by Andrew Jones - I only know them by reputation.
And brimstead in all truth I don't know shit, I am just a human GPT4 who refracts others' online pronouncements. Although I do enjoy good sound.

that's wild about the amp not allowing you to bootleg the audio off the TV

Spikes on hardwood floors?

Can be done, depends on your tolerance for little holes, or one can get spike cups (reduces the point of doing it!).

I've done it with coins under the spikes. But didn't seem to help much in the room and went back to just stands.

I have a modern tv, but yes, the receiver is ancient and probably the most sensible piece to replace completely rather than the speakers, which are fairly new. I probably will still try a subwoofer first because the receiver is set up for it, and there are some nice reasonably priced options.

I might try the sock thing, but am hesitant about pulling off the nice screens on the speakers. I think part of the issue I have is that I'm getting more boomy midrange rather than true sub frequencies. I think if I add a sub, I can run it at a fairly low volume for low frequency thump, and that will take pressure off the Polks to carry those frequencies, I can cut the bass on those and focus on mids and highs. I've found with the Edifier set that I don't really need the sub turned up particularly loud, just having it there to fill out the frequency spectrum makes a big difference.

I did a little digging into the world of receivers, and wow, what a mess. Am I not looking in not looking in the right place or is it just really hard to find a midrange receiver optimized for music? It's all surround sound av behemoths. I'm under the impression they are not great for basic stereo applications.

new stuff is all garbage imho, go used

some pretty good Rotel and NAD receivers on eBay or whatever at the moment. The Kenwood might fall into that 90s hole where they cut production costs and the cheaper componentry sounded distinctly less good. These days even the cheaper stuff measures up.

i spent way too much money on this lil' doohickey which costs as much or more than a lot of AV receivers, despite being from the 'affordable, made in the USA' comedy brand:

https://www.schiit.com/products/saga-2

does what i need it to do though which is switch from a variety of inputs with a remote and has a preamp included. has a little tube doohickey i don't use. wish there was a cheaper version.

if you don't need preamp/remote functionality this looks pretty solid as an awesome audiophile snake oil unit: https://www.amazon.com/TC-7240-Router-Switcher-Selector-Splitter/dp/B00KDQXITG

then you get to spend way too much time thinking about what separate preamp and amp you want to lust after!

I have a Saga as well that I bought as a backup preamp when I sent my vintage preamp off for service for several months. It was fine, but I kind of agree with sleeve that vintage/used is going to give you way more bang for your buck.

I'm mixing old and new... 80s Kenwood pre-amp into a tiny T-amp in power amp mode. I wouldn't have thought a good pre-amp could help the sound so much. Tempted to test a vintage power amp in the setup but it already sounds so sweet... plus the fact it uses barely any energy.

wondering if "integrated amp" might be a better search term for Moodles browsing anything new, because yeah if you're doing stereo then i think you're wasting your time looking into big home theater "receiver" type things. Only issue might be relatively small number of inputs. Easily fixed with a cheap passive switcher...but yeah

This seems like a fairly solid option for the kind of thing I'm looking for, solid design and sound without going crazy with AV options.

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marpm6007/marantz-pm6007-2-ch-x-45-watts-integrated-amp-w/d-to-a/1.html

Pair it with something like this and the Polks, I think that would be pretty good.

https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-R-100SW-10-Subwoofer/dp/B07FKH9ZDC/ref=sr_1_8

sounds v nice!

Don't know if/when I'd pull the trigger on this, but I think it's getting toward what might work for me. I still want to see what the sub would sound like with the Kenwood first.

definitely. i did a similar half ass rigging up of a sub in my living room for a little while and found it just not worth it.

nice open box deal, but the 12" is probably massive overkill

https://www.adorama.com/us1771735.html

I pulled the trigger on the oversized sub, it was too good a deal to pass up. Assuming it actually works, I'm sure I can figure out how to fit it in without overwhelming the other speakers.

I doubt "insufficient bass" is the issue in a smaller room with those Polks.

I use a 10-inch powered sub (with monitor audio silver 100 mains) and tho I've never really done proper balancing or positioning or set up a crossover, at low levels - surprisingly low - it adds a really nice weight to the bottom of the sound. I'll think 'is it doing anything?' then switch it off and yes, you can feel the difference straight away.

Turned up, it is fun WOMP WOMP WOMP through the whole house - good for parties but makes mids sound really hollowed out if you just want to sit and listen.

woof that's a perfect way to describe setting a correct level on a sub

me personally I think that it's pretty hard to top bookshelves+sub unless you have the room and money to get some really sizeable speakers

I've been tempted at times to get a matching Elac sub for my front room but there is literally only once place to put it and every time I think about how I'm going to get a cable over there I despair and go eat a cracker or something

yeah that's the problem, they do eat up a lot of space, we have a plant on top of mine so it looks like a table kinda

Yeah mine is down firing with a wood veneer so it looks pretty innocuous in the corner. Usually has a few records or CDs on top.

My little entertainment room is pretty cluttered, but I have a space carved out for the sub in front of the stereo between a couple vinyl crates. I spend about 90% of my waking time at home in this room, and no one else usually comes in here, so I'm cool with the encroaching mess.

I'm aiming for what woof described, subtly filling out the low frequencies that the mains can't quite handle, I think I can tweak it to be fairly balanced. It will also give me an opportunity to try out the sock trick, because I may no longer need the lows coming out of the towers.

should be able to set the crossover on the receiver so the speakers aren't sent much bass

as a lifelong apartment dweller having a sub would make me feel too guilty

Ditto—I don’t even have one on my home theater system for that reason, especially as I am someone who is often annoyed at others’ apartment noise.

Has this been shared yet?

https://hypebeast.com/2024/2/brian-eno-light-changing-turntable-ii

my kids have night lights that are similar to that turntable, it's just that they're animal-shaped rather than turntable-shaped, I will try to remember to look at them the next time I listen to some music

I should be receiving the sub sometime today, so in anticipation, I've been fooling around with the placement of the Polks. I pulled them forward by about 1/2 foot, which immediately reduced the boominess and added transparency, possibly too much but I'm assuming the sub will help fill that out. I also straightened them out instead of having them pointed in a triangle shape toward me to help emphasize the stereo image over the center. It's a pretty dramatic change soundwise and I'm not yet sure if I will stick with it, but it's good to know that it can be adjusted rather dramatically through small speaker movements.

yeah I have these bigass Paradigm speakers on stands in a room maybe 16 x 16? and inches of adjustment definitely make a difference

this was helpful in showing me how to think about it, I like the emphasis on trusting your ears as you adjust

https://imgur.com/MhkQwCo

one thing i'd really like to do is getting into room treatment, i.e. hanging carpets or other soft stuff up on the walls to reduce echo. of course they sell special audiophile foam stuff for this too.

I've been pondering this for my music studio room. It seems that a few well-placed high quality panels is preferable to putting a bunch of those inexpensive tiles up. I probably won't mess with it until I first replace my studio monitors because the ones I have now are garbage.

Generally I think reflections are the easy targets for room improvement - thicker pile rugs, a sheet of (even thin) fabric hanging an inch inside the wall, deadening material concealed on the underside of tables, etc.
Glad that getting the Polks away from the wall sharpened things up!

I got the sub, it's enormous! My biggest challenge is going to be figuring out how to set it so that it is audible without completely overwhelming everything else. Trying to keep it tight and punchy, rather than full house shaking rumble. This is resulting in rather dramatic shifts to the overall EQ scheme to help find the right balance. I have a feeling I'll be messing around with this for a while until I'm fully satisfied.

I would say to err on the side of house shaking rumble :)

this is pretty helpful on setting the crossover

https://www.svsound.com/blogs/subwoofer-setup-and-tuning/tips-for-setting-the-proper-crossover-frequency-for-a-subwoofer

on the level i sort of dialed it in just to the point where it was noticable

I think I have this mostly set how I want it. The big sub has a pretty different sound from the Edifier one, but it sounds good, more deep and rubbery vs the chest thump of the Edifier sub.

Here's what it all looks like, the sub is down on the floor by the right loudspeaker
https://dl.dropbox.com/scl/fi/mi08xg1wysms3uea2rllz/20240219_165934.jpg?rlkey=cb5dip7ovmrmpavxl2l1amozy

oh good, now I can stop holding my tongue about how wood paneling and carpet work pretty well with acoustics 😉

to say nothing of the acoustically beneficial properties of mickey mouse gnome figurines

I didn't really know if the wood is good or bad, I could imagine it reflecting some stuff but maybe not because it's more porous?

I was trying not to be creepy with "Wait, I know the room he's describing! I've been there!"

lol, it's a true statement and not at all creepy, mh happens to be the only ILX person to have visited the Moodles home, although a bunch of folks from here have seen this same room in zoom sessions