Rolling Maleness and Masculinity Discussion Thread

99.999 percent of people who go into bathrooms are there for straightforward purposes.

Or slightly to the left

OK, truth telling here. Has anybody actually ever looked at another guy’s dick at a urinal? I never have, on purpose anyway. Sometimes out of the corner of your eye, you can tell that yes there is a penis there. But is this a thing that some men do?

Even if penises turn you on, that doesn’t seem like the best setting for them.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra)

honestly that's something i'm curious about too... what gay bathroom sex is _like_. there was that republican senator or something, and i was reading about this sort of elaborate code they engage in. i mean some guys will go to any lengths to avoid having to talk to each other, i guess that's kind of a turn-off? the stuff i hear about male homosexuality seems to reflect cishet men's anxieties about homosexuality than homosexuality in practice, and thinking about it, i honestly know surprisingly little about gay sex. can someone like me _really_ have claim to call herself an f-slur? (that's an imposter syndrome joke, fwiw.)

gay bathroom sex is like being suffocated by a conservative milieu, horny, and desperate. those things combine to make the actual experience weirdly inaccessible. ime.

the only looking at dicks i've ever done in a bathroom has been at the open trough in the eagle. regular bathrooms i pretend like no one else exists. agree that no one does this and for anyone who thinks we need to police bathrooms, that is pure repression and projection.

The cultural conservative fixation on bathrooms — who can use which ones, what might happen in them — is so strange imo. Like 99.999 percent of people who go into bathrooms are there for straightforward purposes.(Republican senators excepted, obviously.)

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra)

lindsay ellis (which reminds me that i really need to get a nebula subscription, since she's got a new video about yoko ono. it's a topic that interests me and i'm super happy to see her making another video after the way she got treated...) argues in "the pop culture roots of transphobia" that trans bathroom anxiety dates back to "psycho" (worth noting that there's no evidence that ed gein, the model for the "trans serial killer" trope, wanted to be a girl or had an interest in gender non-conformity).

i gotta be honest one of the biggest differences between women's restrooms and men's restrooms that i know is that men's restrooms don't have information on how to report abuse

nobody ever seems to bring that up when talking about anxieties about gender in public restrooms, though! honestly if i was gonna have any anxieties about "men in women's rooms" it would be the possibility of an intimate partner who was actively abusing me coming into that space

that said i'm a lesbian so, uh, it's not like excluding men from women's rooms is gonna do me any good on that front...

i mean for that matter i don't see why they wouldn't have information about how to report abuse in men's rooms. i feel like men are really vulnerable to abuse simply because men aren't taught what abuse _looks_ like.

gay bathroom sex is like being suffocated by a conservative milieu, horny, and desperate. those things combine to make the actual experience weirdly inaccessible. ime.

― ꙮ (map)

that makes sense to me, over on the trans politics thread there was some discussion about deeply conservative forms of queerness... the general vibe i get from public restroom sex is one of guilt and shame, like, you want to have gay sex, but you can't afford to be seen at a _gay bar_. it also makes me think of robert fripp's anecdote about how they took off the doors on the stalls at the Zoom Club to discourage people from shooting up in the stalls. that kind of colors my view of bathroom sex. that said it's not anything i have firsthand experience with, just a lot of assumptions :)

The other day on Twitter someone replied to a tweet about one of the New York baseball stadia with a very insistent demand that they put partitions between the urinals so no one could see anyone else's dick, and all I could think was that the real message of that tweet was PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SOMEONE LOOK AT MY DICK.

Thought cottaging was for closeted dads

i remember a big, awkward, hapsburg jaw cokebottle glasses lad pissing beside me one night in the jacks at the castlecourt- in the glance we are conditioned to limit ourselves to (above the hips please gentlemen, simple check do i know you for banter purposes or not) i noted id spotted him lurching awkwardly across the dancefloor that evening neither "dancing" nor napoleon dynamiting but something inbetween, swaying enough to determine he noted he knew he was meant to be moving with the music, but not quite anything close enough to coordinated and in particular not with any one individual or group to sway with or at. solitary and as i said awkward.

as i also said, ive pissed beside enough fellas to know the rules. dont look dont ask dont tell, this is a trough of necessary function and its bad enough without we make it worse.

but.

i should make clear im a five sense only kind of guy, btw.

but.

i swear to fuck something in stance or focus in this fella kinda told me something was /off/

even allowing for the cokebottle lenses and the way he held himself, there was something about the way he, well, held himself

i dont to this day believe i snuck a peak, to be clear, but id drink taken. to this day i still recall that more than any action of my own it became clear that regardless of my own line of vision, the thing this buck was wrangling was not just in my periphery but was as inarguably in my line of sight as would be the column of a pillar one was leaning against while looking at ones phone. i could no more not be aware of it than i could ignore a fireman fighting solitary the hose of an engine a foot to my left.

he shook, i was shook, he fought it back into his pants and went on his way. i spotted him again that night, out there casting shapes into the foggy strobes, and with the knowledge i now had i thought the (relatively, always relatively) straightforward path between first fleeting impression to "well theres my dick" never seemed as tragic and wasted

as it happens im back in that same town tonight staying about five mins away from that same line of urinals, and id already thought of him twice today before this thread.

i hope hes out there somewhere making someone very happy, theres always someone will take a chance and give a chance.

if not, i hope he at least saved some schoolchildren from a leak in a dam or something. life's strange.

happy anniversary!

ill keep one eye out for him around town tomorrow

i will say more than once i have seen a girldick and said to god "god, that is an absolutely magnificent cock. why couldn't you have given it to someone who could at least appreciate it?" (that's not to say that _no_ trans women appreciate our cocks, it's just more the exception than the rule).

similar to map, other than the trough urinal at the eagle or folsom street fair, i don’t check dicks out at urinals. i do remember looking when i was younger though, like a tiny child in Vet Stadium peeing next to a guy named Tony from Bella Vista there to root for the Phils and drink 20 Bud Lights

similar to map, other than the trough urinal at the eagle or folsom street fair, i don’t check dicks out at urinals. i do remember looking when i was younger though, like a tiny child in Vet Stadium peeing next to a guy named Tony from Bella Vista there to root for the Phils and drink 20 Bud Lights

― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table)

my one memory of checking out guys' penises was when i had just joined boy scouts - i was probably 11 and still prepubescent, and we did some kind of swimming thing at the local Y. i'd never been to a YMCA before, and overall i found it completely failed to live up to its reputation for homosexual vice. it did have a communal shower, though, and i remember observing in horror my 17-year-old senior patrol leader's extremely hairy body. that's what i remember more than his dick - all that hair. to be completely clear there was nothing untoward or sexually inappropriate happening. i do recall him saying to me once "kate, don't go through puberty if you can possibly avoid it." this probably was a different time from the Y event, but i've conflated the two. he didn't actually call me "kate" at the time either, but that's what's in my memory now.

it's probably the best advice i ever got when i was young. i have turned out to be extraordinarily bad at following his advice, even taking into account that it was not very practical in the first place. not only did i go through puberty, i've done it _twice_ so far. i don't anticipate doing it again, but i didn't anticipate the second time, either. i'm starting to understand why people think of me as "oppositionally defiant".

as for the senior patrol leader, last i heard he went to prison for dealing cocaine and they took away his eagle scout badge. i get the impression his family was poorer than mine, which was unusual in that town. there was a lot of demand for cocaine in the suburban new jersey town we grew up in. a lot of the rich kids i was in boy scouts with were probably his customers. haven't heard anything about them being banned from the boy scouts, but in fairness none of them worked hard enough to make eagle, either.

i gotta be honest one of the biggest differences between women's restrooms and men's restrooms that i know is that men's restrooms don't have information on how to report abuse

On a lighter note, when I worked at a low-rent country club in high school and had to clean the bathrooms, I was charmed and envious to discover that the women's room had a whole lounge area with a couch and coffee table and chairs. Like they could just hang out there and leave their husbands out at the bar.

sounds like a lactorium, v. nice

I don't know if this is the place for this, but I find it truly weird the way a certain population of online right-wing masculinity people has adopted the idea that people enjoying looking at Sydney Sweeney is some kind of rebuke of "wokeness" or a revival of "allowed to be male" -- are there really highly online 18-year-olds who are going to be convinced that just prior to 2024 there was a whole era where men didn't find pretty young women with large breasts attractive & were formally or informally forbidden from watching movies starring pretty young women with large breasts or from trying to date pretty young women with large breasts in their social circles? Who's going to believe that Sydney Sweeney represents a breakthrough of a "type" that was barred from the airwaves by the woke prudes until the day before yesterday?

a certain population of online right-wing masculinity people has adopted is pushing (for rageclicks) the idea that people enjoying looking at Sydney Sweeney is some kind of rebuke of "wokeness" or a revival of "allowed to be male"

i feel like there would be a way to frame that argument that would be more accurate, something around mainstream movies getting a lot more sexless, audiences getting more puritanical, and sweeney's popularity being a rebuke to that, but obviously that argument doesn't allow you to dunk on the libs or promote classical aryan beauty or whatever, and it's still not a particularly interesting or good argument

man I forgot that wokeness ended masturbating

those SJWs on the semen retention subreddit told me I'm not allowed to like big jugs

yeah, regarding that particular actress, I've heard a reference to 'boobs are back' which implies they weren't 'in' for awhile, I guess because of wokeness

there is something going on about whiteness and fertility I feel but I haven't really mapped it out

the milk thing is relevant to this too

hard to overstate how much WAP by Megan Thee Stallion broke some people's brains

Because the woke left on Twitter is now just a straw man the right construct for their own audience, they have no interest in what actual left wing people think or what their reasons are, they are only interested in what libsoftiktok can cherrypick, and they won't even really engage with that.

Washington Times: "Cum is Back"

man I forgot that wokeness ended masturbating

was actually the Proud Boys iirc

are boobs really back though, i won't be convinced until i hear someone growl "HONKA HONKA" in public

before 2024 you couldn’t be attracted by boobs because black people might see you do it

weren't they getting real weird about Taylor Swift and how she was like the ideal tradwife specimen

Gas, grass, or ass, he kindly stopped for me

I heard Justin Timberlake on the radio today, sexy must be back again.

I nearly posted Syndey Sweeney on the ws of shame thread. not because I was ashamed of being attracted to a real with bona fide cannons but rather because the entire act of finding someone attractive is shameful these days (because of wokeness)

you would

I wasn't sure who she was, so I googled.

Then I immediately gouged my eyes out.

gougled

I heard Justin Timberlake on the radio today, sexy must be back again.

― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 19 March 2024 20:39 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

tipsy, as always, this was good posting

they switched tactics. at first Sydney Sweeney was woke, and now she’s a rebuke to wokeness. makes u think

Now just need a HIMS ad campaign about getting "woke" and we can put this thing to bed.

(ty deems)

i've recently been watching some more of the Trope Talk videos by Overly Sarcastic Productions. Something I've been thinking a lot is a video Red made a long time ago... like, seven years ago... about "Manly Men!" One of the things Red talks about that's stuck with me is that traditionally, "manly men" in media have been ladies' men. The women love them. Can't get enough of them. I guess kind of the equivalent would be, like, the old Harem Anime trope where the most mid guy ever has all hottest, most amazing women completely jonesing for him. And Red says lately (as of 2017), that's not so much how manly men are portrayed. Instead, manly men are portrayed as not "getting" women, as being confused and unable to talk to us.

I used to kind of feel that way about girls. Didn't know how to talk to girls. Didn't imagine I had anything to offer girls. Had really low self-esteem. The problem, though, wasn't that I didn't understand _girls_ - it was that I didn't understand _myself_. Like don't get me wrong talking to girls is hard. I still don't know how to talk to girls. I mean I'm a lesbian, not knowing how to talk to girls is just lesbian culture. Which maybe is kind of the thing that's different? Like I'm insecure, but there are plenty of women who _do_ want me. There are plenty of women who think I'm hot, who find me attractive. The question isn't whether or not a girl wants _me_, but whether or not I want to be intimate with _her_. I'm not an involuntary _anything_. I have agency in my own love life.

And this isn't... I mean, women face our own kind of version of this, which is the idea that we should take whatever we can get and be happy with it. That if somebody wants us, it's ungrateful or rude to say "no". For me, saying "no" to a guy is every bit as hard as asking a girl if she wants to get intimate with me. Like, every bit as hard in a directly correlated way. The better I am at one, the better I am at the other.

-

I guess what Red's video kind of says to me is... there's been a sea change in the way patriarchy models masculinity to men. For whatever reason, the model is no longer someone with a somewhat exaggerated sense of his own attractiveness, someone who doesn't necessarily know how to take "no" for an answer. It's someone who has an exaggeratedly poor sense of his own attractiveness. We've gone from "every man is James Bond" to "acting like James Bond in real life will lead to women rejecting you as a misogynist creep". The latter is more accurate, for sure. Acting like James Bond in real life _will_ lead to that outcome. Because James Bond is a misogynist creep, and always has been.

There's this new "harem" anime out. I haven't seen it, but Geoff Thew talks it up a lot. It's called "The 100 Girlfriends Who Really, Really, Really, Really, REALLY Love You." (Anime these days tend to have overly long titles like that.) It starts out with this guy who has fallen for, and been rejected by, 100 different women. I mean if there's such a thing as an "incel", this guy probably qualifies. That bit's important because the story engine is that there are now 100 fantastic women who all really x5 love protag, and he can't reject any of them or they will DIE. Because magic.

That sounds like a pretty dumb setup, but the way Thew tells it, it works anyway. Because first off, the protag _does_, in fact, genuinely love all the women in question? It's reciprocal. Every one of these women, she's into him, he's into her. Second off, Thew says, the protag is someone who has positive qualities. He's genuinely likeable. It's not wildly implausible that any one of these particular girls would find him attractive.

I guess I understand why there aren't more characters like that. A character like that is hard to write for. Thew also says that every single one of the 100 women has their own personalities and rich, complex interactions not just with the protag, but with each other. I guess I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

The premise of the show is, of course, an absurd fantasy. To me, the thing that makes it absurd is that they somehow manage to make a 101-person polycule work. I do like this about the show as well, BTW - cuts past the whole stupid "WHICH ONE WILL HE CHOOSE" drama by just acknowledging that poly is a thing that exists and can work. Which is true. Just, like. Not a 101-person polycule. Polycule drama scales logarithmically based on the number of members.

What isn't implausible, I don't think, is how easily the women fall for him. I am attracted to men, and I will say that I absolutely am that fucking easy. (I mean, at least until you get to the "so, uh, what do you want to do" part of the discussion, at which point things get extremely difficult extremely quickly.) I don't demand a six-pack or a six figure income. Just, like. Treat me with some basic respect and take me seriously if I say "no". I sort of grew up thinking that a guy had to be exceptional for any woman to want him, you know, an "alpha" or whatever. I'm kind of shocked that I ever believed anything so patently ridiculous and stupid. I did, though, and so I don't blame anybody else for believing it. I'd just like there to be more folks who get the opportunity to figure that out without having to start taking estrogen first.

I'm so relieved leering at women is cool again

The women of Montana look down on me.

(From their gigantic pickup trucks.)

every time i've peeped the driver of one of those huge ass gmc or dodge trucks lately it's been a woman

what i really don't understand is how anyone affords a $150k truck, but fate has doomed me to only know the ways of poverty afaict

what have i come to? i want a truck. a 2012 tacoma or something. even though they are definitely less practical than a subaru.

The most Texas thing I saw driving around Houston years ago was a 60-something woman with white hair driving a huge shiny gold pickup truck at high velocity, with a bumper sticker that said "I'm out of estrogen and I have a gun."

i saw someone driving a truck that said DODEG in black letters on the back recently and I kept wondering if someone stole the letters off the truck and they bought replacements and fucked it up or if there's a such thing as a bootleg truck

Small trucks rule but the current generation are either as big as old full-size trucks or built on car platforms and less cool.