Anthony Braxton: Search and Destroy

there's no tyondai braxton thread (his son) so here:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27698

Lolz that's terrific.

The Arista records were given a re-issue on Mosaic. Got three on LP from the years of looking at 2nd hand shops: For Trio, Duets '76 and Alto '79. The former especially has become one of my very faves, of only a handful I have from his massive discog.

Not really going to get this boxset but I was wondering about For Four Orchestras. Like how does it compare to Gruppen, for example?

Read an article or two about his time there. Seems really amazing in retrospect how they issued the guy's work for five years, obv orchestral music still gets funding from a variety of resources/foundations that support classical music but how could someone from a jazz background even begin to think of getting a project that functions in that grey area between jazz and classical funded?

Bit late in answering that but what the heck. The thing is, at the time Braxton's signing to Arista made good commercial sense for Arista. Record sales were booming, even sales of jazz records were booming. He was a marketable commodity and Arista made great play out of him in their advertising campaigns. The first few records he did for them were profitable. When he finally got dropped it wasn't because he was failing them in particular. The bottom fell out of the jazz market in general.

What exactly is "forward space"? Is he talking about, say, a 'living' improvisational "canvas" that is always changing based on performers/context? Is it easier to define it in terms of what it is not?

context?

I've given up trying to parse Braxton's theories, I just listen to the music.

Just saw your ans to my little qn anagram. tx.

I've given up trying to parse Braxton's theories, I just listen to the music.

― goth colouring book (anagram), Friday, October 3, 2014 3:35 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think this is the best answer! i love so much of his music, but i'm still of the mind that a lot of his theorizing is just bull.

I saw him give a lecture/overview of his systems/work, and it suddenly dawned on me that many of his theories just obfuscated the obvious. "Pulse-track logics"? Metric time.

I mean, it works for him, and he seems to get as much (or more) enjoyment out of developing his systems/theories as he does attempting to realize them, so more power to him. I don't think it's bullshit -- he's sincere about it, and I don't think he's doing it as a put-on. But so much of it strikes me as the compositional equivalent of driving from Chicago to Milwaukee via Seattle and Phoenix: yeah, you eventually get where you're going, but you made the journey needlessly burdensome and complicated.

Its definitely not bullshit, but I also often think its simply the way he expresses himself, so what appears to be "needlessly burdensome and complicated" to some is actually a simple A --> B for him. If you don't care to do the work, or you don't have the time then its fine - but that doesn't mean you simply dismiss it as the charlatan side to him.

That's what I was saying; whatever works for him, cool. I wasn't dismissing his methods (though I have noticed a tendency among some critics to become dazzled by the complicated nature of his systems at the expense of any discussion -- or criticism -- of his actual music).

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61MNM09dmUL._SX355_.jpg

anthony braxton - robert schumann quartet

wonderful, thanks massaman gai for another invaluable tip

been spinning "echo echo mirror house" recently as well, which is a challenge cos one long track & people want to watch spiderman on a regular basis in this room. was initially put off by "playing along to ipod collage" aspect but dang if this aint musically cohesive dense & flipin brilliant.

will have to check that schumann quartet one out at some point, the last Braxton I listened to was a fab 70's live duo set with George Lewis which goes from the sublime to the quackers!

"The duo album with Max Roach which came out on Black Saint in '79 (sorry don't have it to hand right now so can't remember the title, but definitely out on CD) is also a good 'un."

replying to an ancient Marcello post - it's called Birth and Rebirth and it is indeed a good 'un!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/arts/anthony-braxton-composer.html

sometimes in composition no. 254 they sound like they're singing radio station IDs

Be advised that the Braxton Composer Portrait show at the Miller Center 9/25/19 with Either/Or and JACK Quartet is on surreptitious sharing services and it's a decent recording of a great show

I interviewed Marilyn Crispell for Down Beat and we talked about Braxton, obviously.

There's video of a Stockhausen-scale Braxtonathon in Berlin, looks like a great time was had by all

I'd never previously really connected with the man's music, but on a whim the other day I rescued Sextet (Victoriaville) 2005 from the dollar CD bin and I'm really enjoying it. It's a far cry from the brainy and occasionally bloodless music I (perhaps naively) dismissed many years ago. Turns out I may be a fan of Braxton's "ghost trance" era (despite having very little idea what that is in concept). Thinking I should hear more of his later material. Any suggestions?

A friend of mine walked out of his last gig in London! So he's still provocative at least.

Any suggestions?

I remember liking Four Compositions (GTM) 2000, which is on Delmark, quite a bit at the time and, like you, being surprised by how entertaining and fun it was.

Thanks! That's the next one I'll check out. I feel like I'm about to enter a Braxton phase.

Quartet (GTM) 2006 on Important is also a good one from that era.

Also, not Ghost Trance era but if you're unfamiliar with Braxton's 1980s quartet with Marilyn Crispell, Gerry Hemingway and Mark Dresser, check out the Leo Records releases from London and Coventry.

i don't know if it's easy find these days, but graham lock's book forces in motion is a very readable account of that quartet's UK tour in 1985 (lock travelled with them) and also an introduction to braxton's work as a whole, which i think generally squishes the "brainy yet bloodless" perception -- a lot of it is pretty funny as i recall (often at lock's expense).

https://store.doverpublications.com/0486824098.html

^^^apparently an updated edition from a couple of years back

Just found the Lock book for $9 with free shipping, so that's on its way here now.

That Important set looks great, but I may wait a bit before pulling the trigger on a box set.

I see that the Coventry disc (whose reputation precedes it, iirc) was released in full and also in a single-disc version (which of course is less expensive). I may grab the abridged version for now.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions!

The Lock book is fucking fantastic (reissued last year). It absolutely cracked Braxton's music open for me, just because learning about him as a human being - his weird sense of humor and personality quirks - allowed me to think about what I was hearing in a completely different way.

Braxton's 1980s quartet with Marilyn Crispell, Gerry Hemingway and Mark Dresser

^^^I love this group so much but have had mixed feeling any time I've tried to venture further into Braxton's catalog. Willisau (Quartet) 1991 is probably my favorite but generally just really enjoy everything they did.

^^^ thread revive prompted me to put Willisau on tonight

always preferred the small group stuff before but duos are really working for me atm - recently released one with harpist jacqueline kerrod is great, as are the ones with miya masaoka, fred frith, derek bailey (who I don’t always love), max roach, richard teitelbaum, doubtless plenty more I haven’t heard yet

I feel like his larger scale long form compositions deserve more attention than they get, but they can be intimidating. what I’ve heard from the iridium set is great

it’s pretty shitty the treatment (or lack thereof) he’s received from classical gatekeepers- ditto for bill dixon, cecil taylor, ornette & others - for which i can think of reasons. some of the orchestral stuff I’ve heard could have been better performed/conducted/recorded. he has a right to be bitter about boulez and fucking zappa

the standards are enjoyable enough but don’t blow my mind like some of his other stuff does. maybe they’re not supposed to. idc about “not swinging” or “getting the changes wrong” as some jazz nerds complain but his playing is much more exciting elsewhere imo

Listening to the new Thumbscrew record and got the idea of cross-referencing his discography for multiple interpretations of the same composition...I'm guessing the below is the best resource for that? sadly outdated...

https://www.restructures.net/BraxDisco/BraxDisco.htm

ah.. thanks for the new Thumbscrew album alert, this sounds ace.

Listening to the two duo albums Braxton recorded with Wadada Leo Smith live at Tonic in 2002/2003, Organic Resonance and Saturn, Conjunct the Grand Canyon in a Sweet Embrace.