Spotify - anyone heard of it?

Cow_Art, Soulseek is still the thing— newest update is a little buggy but still works

Imagine we were in a world where you either had to buy physical media or you had to rely on radio / broadcast for hearing music. Home taping / sharing is illegal, no streaming anywhere (no free YouTube plays). In this scenario, do more artists make a living from their music than in today’s environment?

how many artists make a living from their music now?

xp Isn’t that just the world of the 1990s? Or are you saying all of today’s technology exists, but somehow YouTube and streaming haven’t been developed (which is a weird hypothetical)?

I’m saying if you take away streaming and illegal copying of music, and you cannot play any song just by searching it on YouTube, does that environment help musicians or hurt musicians compared to today’s reality.

morris otm, i was like "don't have to imagine, already lived it."

STRAWMAN ALERT

For artists it has been a disaster, yes - but from an archivist POV it seems catastrophic.

obv all true but its worth noting that some of the more dedicated invite-only t0rr3nt sites still serve as incredible archives. of course you need the invite AND they’re liable to go down at any given time (rip what, still mourning your loss…)

A little of topic, but what bothers me the most is how much bands have to charge for vinyl. I say this as an active touring musician who works the merch table.

Everyone is nice and sort of acknowledges that vinyl is somewhat overpriced because most bands don’t make much from Spotify. But it just seems backwards to me. True fans who come out to the show and buy merch should be rewarded for their effort and enthusiasm, not have to make up for everyone else who listens to the music for free.

CDs are the answer!

(Not the answer to why vinyl is so expensive, but how to support the artist and buy a great-sounding format for a more reasonable price)

I’m with you. I love CD’s. But they have the largest difference of production cost vs sale cost. A lot of indie artists in the 90s/00s did pretty well from selling 50 thousand CD’s.

I swear that I’m a red blooded American capitalist, but there is just something about this current model that really rubs me wrong. I’m sure that most of us are old enough to remember buying basically any classic rock record used for under 5 or 10 dollars. And it just seemed right. Like ya, Born To Run should be 4.99 at Second Hand Tunes.

I liken it to a bar having to overcharge for a beer. We all know that an Old Style costs under a dollar at the store. But because I’m at a bar and there’s people and a vibe happening we’ll both pretend that it should cost 3 dollars. But if you try to charge 6 dollars it just seems wrong. I feel we are at 6 dollars for an Old Style now for vinyl records and CD’s too for that matter.

I guess I just wish there was a more equatable way for fans of bands to support them. If I ever figure it out I’ll let you know.

Because the PayPal link direct to the band mentioned a few posts above just seems lame. Like a fan shouldn’t be compelled to just give a band money for nothing or to absolve their guilty conscience. Ahh. Whatever. I’m old.

More bands should sell CDs. The number of albums available only on either expensive vinyl or dipshit shoddy cassettes but not CD is nuts. I assume it makes financial sense for the performers (?) but it sucks.

Yay Spotify managed to make legal music piracy have an 80%+ market share, of which they have a near monopoly, while also making it almost impossible for the (relative) middle-class non-hobbyist musician to survive by requiring 4,000+ streams to get paid the equivalent of one $12 album sale. And yet with that stranglehold on listeners and artists, they supposedly can't even turn a profit (gee, make music worth nearly zero, and can't squeeze a profit out of that) and as such is firing another 1,500 (17% of the company) as the third round of layoffs this year. All while funneling $100,000,000+ to military tech.

These techno-wizard libertarians really are the fucking best, thank god they saved music from antiquated concepts.

But hey fuck all that, my Spotify Wrapped was dope, it's like they really get me, man.

hey don't forget the $100,000,000 to idiot racist podcasters

Anyway, hope your job's safe with all the cuts, glenn.

by requiring 4,000+ streams to get paid the equivalent of one $12 album sale
this seems a bit unfair in that with a normal deal artists would probably receive somewhere around 10% of the albums sales price

Well, given the existence (till the techbros destroy it) of Bandcamp, it's not *that* unfair. But ok--say it "only" takes 400 streams (or say, 40 full play-throughs of a ten-track album) to make your fraction (split with label, bandmates, producers, etc.) of the $1.20 you apparently would've made in the old days...

The math still equals "completely fucked" and legalized piracy by the techfucks.

Sure, I agree

perhaps inevitable that the price of digital music distribution would to some extent reflect the cost - and sharing digital files is basically free (compared to producing and distributing cds) and something that requires litte/no expertise

I mean, no one was ever buying CDs or records as expensive coasters. The value, generally, wasn't in the object per se, but in the art (or if we must, the "intellectual property").

Techbros said, whoa, we can cut out the physical costs, sweet. And then they said, oh, and the IP is worth literal microfractions of a penny.

And then they made listeners, to whom all of this was how sausage was made, believe the fair price for music was basically zero (or maybe $6.99 all-you-can-eat or whatever they charge).

And then via bullshit like Spotify Wrapped™ and other propaganda they made people feel warm and fuzzy about their (almost literally worthless to the artists unless they were Taylor Swift or Beyonce) "love" and "fandom" of artists.

So the relative supposed cost savings of streaming vs physical media is hardly the explanation for the theft from artists. (And, streaming ultimately uses more natural resources than a CD...)

i am forever grateful for posts like Soundslike’s. The apathy and bizarre defense of verifiable corporate swindling around Spotify is mindblowing to me.

If a fast food or retail chain exploited workers as egregiously and as unapologetically as Spotify does, people would be in the streets burning cars

And then they made listeners, to whom all of this was how sausage was made, believe the fair price for music was basically zero (or maybe $6.99 all-you-can-eat or whatever they charge).

This idea of fair price was set long before Spotify showed up. How many of the hundreds of albums most of us heard between say, 2005 and 2010 were actually purchased?

Funny you should ask about my job. Everything I said above still holds, and now you can trust me on that.

Legit sorry to hear that, glenn. Terrible time of year for this sort of thing to happen, too. I'm not sure I know too many people right now whose employment isn't precarious. I hope you find something else soon, and also hope you can enjoy the silver lining of getting a few weeks rest and hopefully a severance package

Xp I think we forget that streaming and downloading was considered the “solution” to the Napster era when no one was getting paid and physical media sales collapsed. Of course with streaming it ended up the tech people and the record companies of course took care of themselves first, which is the problem, especially now that no one buys downloads except us weirdos.

xpost to Glenn, you were the first (only) person I thought of when I saw the news, sorry to hear.

Oh I'm really sorry to hear that, Glenn.

Adding to the chorus – sorry & hang in there, Glenn... hope you're in a good position to unplug & unwind over the holidays, and start the new year fresh.

:( that sucks glenn and I'm sorry to hear it

Here’s to getting a new gig soon, glenn.

best of luck in finding something new, Glenn.

Best of luck, Glenn.

Hope Glenn finds another job as satisfyingly suited to his skills and interests, or at least better enjoys posting on ILX for a while

This idea of fair price was set long before Spotify showed up. How many of the hundreds of albums most of us heard between say, 2005 and 2010 were actually purchased?

Hundreds tbh.

Well there you go. Piracy nbd.

right question, wrong audience

sorry to hear that glenn, I'm sure you'll work wonders somewhere else

otm corrs. discrepancies about the format aside, you're an asset wherever you end up glenn.

(pls keep posting on ilm)

Sorry to hear it Glenn. All the best.

yep, best of luck glenn.

Very sorry to hear this Glenn, I hope we've all appreciated your insight and assistance itt. Really above and beyond.

^ echoing this!

Really sorry to hear this Glenn.

Wishing you all the very best, Glenn. I've always valued your contributions to this thread. Your employers are silly sausages to be letting you go.

Echoing all the well wishes Glenn. Hopefully once the dust has settled you'll be in a better place and can spill the tea if you feel so inclined (and/or are legally able to).

I read how it went down, getting an email from HR "within two hours" of Ek sending an email. Really impeccable bedside manner there, right before Xmas as well

Unless you've been like reheating fish lunches in the office microwave it seems insane they would let someone with your obvious passion and skills go Glenn

Best wishes Glenn

Good luck Glenn, you have been valuable here.