Pauline Kael

Funny moment at 1:22 where she takes a jab at Insdorf's own work (or the NYT arts and leisure section as a whole): "Very often the writers such as you don't really express your opinion of the work you're writing about."

It's never not been fashionable to take potshots at NYT

Busy week, just started listening to this today. About 40 minutes in...Agree and disagree when it comes to individual films she mentions, but she herself is still an inspiration. Was struck by this, talking about directors she thought were just treading water at the time:

"It's as if certain people were surrounded by such respectability that everything they do is going to get praised, and all it does is take away from the greatness of their great work."

That feels like the rule today, starting with Scorsese. (Which Kael pronounces in what seems like an odd way to me.) No matter what certain directors put out, it will be greeted with praise, praise that's almost as dispiriting as the films themselves. The Andersons, Spielberg, Sofia Coppola. I'd include some relatively newer directors who I think are already there.

was this ever not the case tho? not just in cinema but in all the arts, you reach a certain status and this is how it pans out.

Scorsese the only one from that list that truly applies to tho imo, seen lots of hate for recent Andersons, Coppola, Spielberg.

Yeah. Things haven't changed at all. This scenario applies to musicians too btw.

time to crowdsource a complete list of the paulettes btw (but not poll them bcz polls suck)

If there's a review out there where someone really went off on Asteroid City, or how unbearable in general Wes Anderson's become, please post a link, I'd like to read that. And while I skimmed a couple of mildly negative reviews of Priscilla, a throwaway comment by Greil Marcus--"Having just come from Priscilla feeling as if my IQ dropped 50 points in the course of the movie"--is the only thing I've come across that actually described the film I saw.

(Marcus is not a Paulette, but he is--unreasonably at times, I'd say--fiercely protective when it comes to stuff other people write about her, and he's been writing for 50 years about the profound effect her writing had on him.)

Most of our experiences with art tend to be middling; offenses to the imagination or even to our morals are rare (we live in a B+ world). Ozu and Rohmer went on making similar films; Yo La Tengo and Young Thug do too with albums. Kael herself was guilty of praising middling things, for example writing 1800 words or whatever on Club Paradise -- and some of those reviews of forgotten '80s tripe contain her best writing.

You might disagree, but Spielberg and Scorsese have found new tonalities in their recent work (I can't imagine the Scorsese of a decade ago bringing off Killers). Anderson and Coppola I'll leave to you.

I do see uniformity in the reception to Taylor Swift albums, and, yeah, some of the breathlessness with which may of us on ILM respond in listening threads irritates the hell out of me too; but even those responses have started to crack (i.e. the reception of Midnights).

Ozu and Rohmer went on making similar films; Yo La Tengo and Young Thug do too with albums.

As I've said before, Cannibal Corpse albums sound like Cannibal Corpse; it's called having a style. I make fun of Paul Schrader for making the same movie over and over, but I keep watching. And I want Sofia Coppola to keep making her movie(s), because nobody else is telling those stories — her perspective on femininity (its construction and meaning for those who inhabit it) is basically unique in Hollywood. There are a hundred movies a year that tell us in one way or another what it feels like to be an adolescent boy (of any age), but Coppola is one of the very few people writing and directing from the perspective of a young woman. The only question is whether she's aged out of her chosen subject matter — but I don't think there's any risk of her turning into Larry Clark.

And it's not as if these films earned universal praise. Priscilla strikes me as minor Coppola, but I want her to keep making these films. Fully realized art is more of an accident and less intentional than YouTube documentaries would have the public belief.

If you can't find the mixed-to-negative reviews of Asteroid City, you're not looking that hard

As for Spielberg, may I introduce you to ILX?

Check out the url if you can't open the link: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/06/21/arts/wes-andersons-asteroid-city-is-crashing-bore/

and from Eric H's own Slant: https://www.slantmagazine.com/film/priscilla-review-sofia-coppola-cailee-spaenee-jacob-elordi/

I do grant the basic argument tho, even if I'd pick different directors (*cough* PTA *cough*)

pta was mentioned by clemenza ("the Andersons")

Licoricce Pizza certainly got some dissenting voices but they were tied up into various discourses I don't think we'd want to revisit

I read few hearty embraces of LP.

Finished the full clip, and among the OTM moments is her saying, circa Sophie's Choice, that Streep's gifts in film are far more suited toward comedy. Which is obvious now but I'm sure was anathema back then.

Also, "Scor-seh-seh" fine, but I was completely blindsided when she said "Chris Mahr-CARE" late in the proceedings.

correctly

You don't have to look farther than Kael's old magazine for a Licorice Pizza rave:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/licorice-pizza-reviewed-paul-thomas-andersons-thrilling-coming-of-age-story

(By the way, I exempt Armond White's utterly predictable screeds from the disappearing art of saying No.)

Is "Scor-seh-seh" at all right? I've never heard it pronounced that way ever, until hearing this.

Sure, but you can hardly accuse Brody of jumping on anybody's band wagon; the man's written more than his share of "this film is shit" stuff.

so i was checking if armond is a paulette (ans = some say so yes) and i came across this quote (in new york magazine, unattributed): "“there’s paulettes and there are paulloons”

am i being dim bcz i don't get how “paulloons” works

I think the only pronunciation of Scorsese I've ever heard that didn't end with "-zee" was from Phil Spector, who called him "Skeezy."

Never heard that. Kael was a fan of his early on, yes; I don't really know his writing from then, so I don't know if you can detect her voice there. (Because it's you, mark s., I'm substituting "voice" for the i-word.)

I've heard "Score-sezzy" and "Score-say-zee," and am inclined toward the former in my head.

It sounded to me like Kael was saying "Scor-sezza." The Italian pronunciation is something like "Scor-say-zeh" or "Scor-seh-zeh" depending on how you transcribe the Italian vowels. Kael is schwa-ing down the last vowel but that's not less accurate than saying "zee."

Should be scor-chay-zeh the way everyone insists on spelling it

Frankly I wish the man himself would issue a statement to resolve this once and for all

Pauloon as in Buffoon? Kind word for Armond, considering for instance his moist "review" of a recent Van Morrison album, really mostly a parade of quotes, celebrating the anti-vaxx fount of all wisdom.
Anybody who keeps up with this thread should also check this book---from Publisher's Weekly:

AFTERGLOW: A Last Conversation with Pauline Kael
Francis Davis, Pauline Kael, . . Da Capo, $18 (134pp) ISBN 978-0-306-81192-0
This slim but potent volume offers movie lovers an elegant good-bye from the acerbic, wildly opinionated National Book Award– winning film critic who reigned at the New Yorker from 1968 to 1991. The New York Times called her "probably the most influential film critic of her time." Kael's enthusiasm for films was contagious, as she praised or damned them with giddy vitality. Longtime friend Davis's three extended conversations find the octogenarian still an avid moviegoer. While this book doesn't offer extended reviews, fans will be delighted to hear Kael weigh in on movies released since she stopped writing a decade ago. She enjoyed the "sweet" Star Trek spoof Galaxy Quest; the first half of Boogie Nights; High Fidelity ("it gets better as it goes along"); and Brian De Palma's Mission to Mars. She was also fond of TV's "terrific" Sex and the City and The Sopranos ("I loved the first season and watched it religiously"). She found Silence of the Lambs "a hideous and obvious piece of moviemaking"; Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut "ludicrous from the word go"; and American Beauty "heavy and turgid." She also blasts later-day Steven Spielberg (Always was "a shameful movie" and the casting was "terribly wrongheaded" in Schindler's List). Besides film quips, Kael defends her critical review of the Holocaust documentary Shoah, regrets being talked out of reviewing Deep Throat and discusses current filmmaking and her 20-year battle with Parkinson's disease. (Sept. 3)

FYI:The book's publication date coincides with the one-year anniversary of Kael's death at age 82.

Wait what’s up with him?

"Scor-seh-see"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbPp13icx1c

Pronouncing it is one thing, spelling it without checking is another.

xxpost He mentions it toward the end of this:
https://artsfuse.org/267051/the-17th-annual-francis-davis-jazz-poll-my-poll-without-me/

Partly my own bias, but felt she was a little nasty about Lauren Bacall--who was almost 60 at that point, only semi-active, and no doubt having a difficult time finding decent rolls.

PauluneKael, catty? I’m shocked. And stunned.

Can’t type either, especially when my keyboard is set to English.

Even when it is in fact set to English;)

yes it's "pauloon"

Every few years I'll go back and listen to the Kael+MacDonald+Simon symposium from 1963-ish, simply because (among other things) it's just a fun sparring match. It's a fascinating contrast to this mid-'80s audio in that Kael back in the earlier instance was more about raising her favorites up. In this newer clip, she's clearly become embittered and — for all she has to say about Ebert & Siskel — seems to think just tossing cherry bombs like "Lauren Bacall was a terrible actress" somehow moves any kind of needle anymore. The more I reflect, the sadder the newer clip feels.

I read Afterglow at the time. She's kind about Carol Reed.

the Kael+MacDonald+Simon symposium from 1963-ish

Do you know if that's available somewhere? I'd love to hear it.

Looks like maybe it is no longer available online. I'll rip and post when I get home later tonight

Wow, thanks!

no doubt having a difficult time finding decent rolls.

Picture Lauren Bacall regarding the selection at her local bakery with disgust.