The Micro Four Threads Third

took these in SF this past week. think I'm finally getting used to this, after having made an estimated 1500 exposures since owning it! camera in general is very discreet - out of about 4 days of shooting only 1 person realized I took a picture of him, and I think he was one of the numerous SF crazies. outside of SFMOMA some guy with a Leica M8 and a 35mm Summilux stopped and asked me about it - he even let me put the Summilux on my E-P1 - thing is crazy sharp, I had no problem nailing focus without the MF zoom, but of course it was 70mm EFOV.

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Good stuff. You know you've got a desirable thing if strangers are lending you their Summicrons. Guy in the park on Saturday with a Leica R9 (with digital back) certainly wasn't offering me his Summicron. Not that I could've done anything with it.

I was given an old OM20 at the weekend, so, if anyone near me gets a E-P1 and an adaptor, I've got a nice Zuiko 50/1.8 they can play with.

I didn't know R9s could be fitted with digital backs! I don't know anything about Leica's SLR system in general so... obviously the sensible thing for all DSLR manufacturers to do is to come out with models with interchangeable backs, but then how would they make their money?

I love OM cameras - smaller than the Canon/Nikon equivalents but yet still so usable. it's funny to me that no matter how advanced DSLRs can get, their viewfinders still pale in comparison to even the most basic of 70s SLRs. I've shot with 1D and 1Ds's and they still didn't match my old OM-G.

The excellently-named OM-G was actually the same camera as this:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2461/3812474258_07cf979956.jpg

Shot some nice, sharp pics with the Zuiko-S 50/1.8 on Sunday but I do wonder whether I have a light leak...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2669/3811662207_edf9362a59.jpg

But it's not on all the frames - this shot of some marigolds is fine:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3564/3812475190_5566259805.jpg

I am still rocking my OM-10.

is that slidefilm? looks super saturated! I see your 50/1.8 has 'made in japan' on the nose - those were reputed to be the best of the Zuiko 50/1.8's. xp

glad to see so many OM users on here; maybe we should start a ILX Flickr group. I have a 50/1.4 on mine - thought about getting adapters and stuff for the E-P1 but figured I might be able to find some Pen F lenses for about the same price, and it'll make for a smaller footprint. almost pulled the trigger on a 24/2.8, I lust after the 24/2.0 and the 21/3.5 and 2.0 (!)

It's Photoworks ASA 200 negative film - a friend from the US left a couple of rolls here a while ago (they appear to be a Seattle-based company, I don't know whether this is rebranded Fuji or something - there's no manufacturer name on the negatives). It's actually a year beyond its expiry date.

They're breathed on a little in Lightroom but I didn't really saturate them any more, just filled in the bottom end and altered the yellows a bit to tally with the prints. Nice mid-to-late afternoon summer light. Do wonder about that light leak though.

Along with the OM20 and the Zuiko 50/1.8, my friend gave me a Miranda 28/2.8 and a Vivitar flashgun. Very odd feeling of deja vu using it - I think my brother had this very camera (I thought it was the older OM10 but that wouldn't have been compatible with his motor drive) and I took pictures at his (first) wedding with it in Feb '85. He got all his SLR gear stolen on holiday a year or so later and never got back into it.

mid-to-late afternoon light is great light to shoot in, and a big neener-neener to all those who still shoot in B&W exclusively. you ought to be able to find a DIY kit on eBay to fix the light leak - I remember buying a kit for about twenty bucks to fix a couple of old fixed lens rangefinders (Canonet, XA) , and it came with strips of foam in all sorts of widths as well as lots of black felt. I think they claimed there was enough material to fix 10 or so cameras in a kit. you might as well replace them anyway since the camera's getting on what, 40 years old?

Not quite that old - OM20 was 1983. May look into that kit. It wouldn't be that much of a chore to just tape the hell out of the thing with every new film. What with the Bronica, the FTb, the EOS 10, the EOS IX7, the Blackbird Fly and the K1000 all competing for attention (and with me trying to keep processing costs under £20/month), it's not like I change film often*. 24 exposures on one trip to the park was very unusual.

(* in fact there's now a danger than the bunch of new 120/135 film we bought last year will go past expiry just like all the old film we scored on Freecycle to start us on this whole daft adventure in the first place)

that's quite a collection! tape sounds like it'd work - or you could leave it as is to get a little of that Lomo feel

was interested in the E-P1 at 1600 ISO and took it out - 5.6 @ 1600 and 0.3 EV got me around 1/80-1/120 shutter speeds in the brightly lit streets of HK. still on the lookout for a reasonably wide fast lens - come oooon, Panny 20mm/1.7.

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lol hipster w/ asian girlfriend

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it's not really a camera until you've taken a picture of a baby with it is it? this is with an old Canon 50mm/1.8 - for the Canon rangefinder systems. has 10+ aperture blades for that smooth and creamy bokeh. contrast is a little low - but good overall.

GF1 info out on DPR!

it has an EVF! 20mm 1.7 details also released. everything but the price.

looks like the EVF doesn't match the G1/GH1's:

The G1 and GH1 have been widely praised for their high resolution viewfinders; the Olympus E-P1 criticized for it's lack of one. The GF1 sits somewhere between the two, offering an optional 'Live View Finder' (the DMC-LVF1), which clips onto the hot shoe. The resolution is nothing like the G1/GH1 (202k pixels), nor is the finder anywhere near as large - it's more like a mid-range bridge or super zoom camera than an SLR (the LVF1 gives you around 0.52x magnification, compared to the G1's 0.7x magnification). From a size point of view, therefore, it's not far off most entry-level digital SLRs, but from a resolution point of view you're not going to be using it for fine focus checking.

But it does work, and it does allow you to use the camera at eye level if that's how you prefer to shoot, and in very bright light (where the main screen suffers the usual glare problems.

The viewfinder image may be small and you may be able to see the pixels, but it's pretty sharp and contrasty, and has a high frame rate (60fps). Best of all you can tilt it up through 90 degrees; great for macro and studio work. We understand the downgrade from the G1/GH1 (apparently the engineers did try, but it proved impossible to make a removable version), but we're slightly disappointed that, unlike its bigger siblings, the GF1 doesn't have the option to use the main screen as a status panel when shooting with the viewfinder; it's one or the other.

gear lust dying down. definitely going to try to source one of the 20mm f/1.7...

Oh, that's really nice! Do you miss the vewfinder on the Oly?

Leica making a big announcement next week too.

I kind of do, actually - manual-focusing is a pain on the LCD. it's not really a problem when shooting with a wide-angle, but it's a big pain when shooting with a portrait length/telephoto; not only do you have to zoom in to adjust focus, but you have to keep the camera very steady otherwise the image jumps all over the place.

I may be chasing after a white whale when I say I want an EVF or a LCD screen that can fine-focus without zooming in; I don't remember being too impressed by the G1's EVF when I played around with it ages ago.

scuttle seems to be that the leica announcement will be the m9 and, uh, something else

Presumably the GF1 with a leica badge on it and an M lens.

http://leicarumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/leica-x1.jpg

X1 announced! less exciting than I thought it would be. basically a fixed lens w/ an APC-S sensor, no optical finder. you could get a E-P1 or GF1 kit with a 35mm/2.8 or 40mm/1.7 equivalent for less than half the price. but that's always been the rub with Leica hasn't it?

I'd seriously consider selling everything and a kidney if it had an optical finder - would just be like using one of the old fixed lens rangefinders, like a Canonet or Oly RC.

also makes me feel better about my E-P1 having a "cheap" LCD when the X1 has one that's 1. smaller and 2. the same res!

GF1 reviewed over at DPReview, and tbh, I think it would suit my needs much better than the E-P1...

picked up a 20mm 1.7 the other week; some usability issues on the E-P1. hoping a firmware update will improve things

Had an extended play with the Panasonic G1, GF1 and Oly E-P1 in a store over the weekend; the G1 is really terrific, I think. The way it handles (that rubberised body!), the speed of the AF, the clarity of the EVF. Really impressive.

G1 is also the cheapest of the bunch - you can probably pick up a used G1 body in the US for $3-400 on the 'Bay

NB, the rubberized coating is said to be flimsy and will wear off after extended use

so: i'm debating between the G1, GH1, GF1, and the Oly?

i don't see the advantage that the g1 has for its extra size - you'd be better off going with a larger sensor dslr i think. the gh1 looks better if you're into video, otherwise i think it's the gf1 for its portability - supposedly faster autofocus and better screen would swing it for me over the olympus.

i'm just going on specs and samples though, sure that dyao has more insight.

Yeah, from all the reviews I've been seeing, the EP-1 is pretty great, but the GF-1 is all kinds of better at focusing.

the ability to do video is actually pretty tempting, to be honest, but the GF1's portability is v appealing

going to B&H in Manhattan on Monday to check out:

GF1
LX3
G11
Kx (thanks, ledge)

GF1 looks amazing but, of course, $$$

what are your requirements gbx? I think there are two big factors in choosing among the current crop of M43 cameras:

viewfinder - are you absolutely sure you don't need a viewfinder? choosing a GF1 opens you to an optional electronic viewfinder, but the current attachable one for the GF1 is not as good as the built-in one for the G1/GH1 nor the attachable one for the E-P2 (which is not cross-compatible, sadly)

focusing speed - do you expect DSLR-like focusing speed? GF1 has this, plus is all around more responsive than an E-P1 (which can be a little sluggish, especially if you're changing a lot of settings at once).

my personal recommendation would be a GF1 kit with the 20mm - perfect all rounder. the main advantage of the GH1 is that it comes with a nice, video-ready 14-150 zoom with silent AF, and that it has a great EVF.

GF1 can also do video, just not 1080p I think - it has a dedicated video button which is more convenient than the video mode on the E-P1s dial. 720P is still pretty great - I shot this at my local coffee shop...sure it could look way better if I knew the first thing about post processing video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjvPKCMkW1Y

IMO the main advantage of a M43 system over a compact DSLR system is the portability. the shutter sound, although different than the mirror slap, can be just as obtrusive - IIRC you did a lot of people photography in Africa, so that might be worth considering, how obtrusive you want to be. the responsiveness is a little worse than even an entry-level DSLR (at least in the E-P1's case) - the GF1's supposed to be better. AF is almost as good or as good as an entry-level DSLR - but certainly won't be as fast as a top of the line Canikon.

also think about lens choice - at the moment I think there's only one killer lens out there right now for the M43 system and that's the Panasonic 20mm (40mm equivalent). however, the AF speed is not as fast as the 14-45, although it's still pretty fast. Panasonic and Olympus have released lens roadmaps and there's a 14mm (28mm equivalent) coming from Panasonic next year. NB prices for M43 stuff is still pretty inflated - for the price of a GF1 kit with 20mm you could easily get a secondhand DSLR with maybe 2-3 good lenses.

I think if you can afford to wait, next year's going to bring a lot of new stuff - if rumors are to be believed, other manufacturers are going to get into the mirrorless, large sensor compact camera market, which will drive prices down all around. as it stands right now, I think the GF1 is the best iteration of all the good things about M43 - portable, responsive, great image quality (if you process from RAW - its JPEGs leave a lot to be desired).

hmmm

thanks for the info! i'm only paying for part of this thing, as it is gonna be a xmas present from the fam. i AM mostly interested in people pictures, and will likely do everything RAW by default. i had fun with the pics i took this summer, and learning the ins and outs of processing actually appeals to me.

the lack of a viewfinder kinda annoys, but i guess the external one is ok?

ah actually the external one is pretty lame compared to the one built in to the G1/GH1 and the external one for the E-P2! maybe Panasonic will release a better one in the future?

one thing I forgot to mention is that the E-P1/E-P2 both have in-body image stabilization - basically the camera moves the sensor to compensate for any shaking of the camera. lets you shoot with a slower shutter speed - of course it won't help if your subject is moving, but it's great for still life, especially nighttime shots.

lol unfortunately nobody's released a "dream" M43 camera yet that has everything - yer gonna have to pick yer poison. I think the following links will be germane to your decision:

DPReview real-world comparison between GF1/E-P1
DPReview focusing speed comparison
Thom Hogan's GF1 review/E-P1 comparison
Mike Johnston (online photographer) compares the two part I
part II

in the end it's gonna be six of one, half dozen of the other. no matter which you get I think it'll be fine for people photography - people will just think you're using an oversized digicam, not a real professional SLR. hope it works out for you!!

GF1 Fieldtest

sounds like it was written by a panasonic pr rep. but whatever

Got the GF1 today, 20mm lens. And then dropped it on the pavement within the first hour.

By the time I got it light was gone for the day, so not a lot of fieldtesting. But it's a very pleasing device so far.

congratulations! share some pics when you get it up and running. look at it this way: you got the camera's first nick out of the way, now you don't have to be paranoid about it anymore. I dinged my E-P1 within the first three days

these are all using the iA mode

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should have used exposure bracketing on this one. blown out highlights in outdoors shots will be common, apparently.

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you may have heard that it snowed yesterday in nyc

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this trip to the airport was such a failure i have to go back tomorrow

those look good! yeah I usually shoot at -0.3 EV, although if you shoot with the live histogram and dedicate a dial to changing exposure you can keep blown highlights in check

..>~pending~<..

btw what do you guys know about using an optical viewfinder (eg voigtlander) with the GF1? i've heard some say the 35mm is the best, others the 40mm

(for use with 20mm pancake, obv)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/atto77/4208165691/in/photostream/

guhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

think i'm gonna do this

I have a 35mm viewfinder with the 20mm pancake - I like it fine. I think the 35mm is better because you can see outside the 'edges' of the shot like in a rangefinder. however you won't know what you're focusing on/need to prefocus before you shoot.

read somewhere that the trick is to just listen for the autofocus to stop and then go with god

GF1: i spend a decent amount of time locking the AF and then re-framing, so that's a scary strategy for me.

i like ppl/editorial pics the best, and am kinda seat of the pants anyway, so firing away thru the OVF and checking the results later seems like it'll be a strategy that'll work for me

:D :D :D :D

so excited

♫ i own a camera ♫

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waaaay too excited about this

OK guys - April Fool's or something else? I was just looking to preorder a GH4

http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/10010/panasonic-abandons-m43-stops-cameras-production-except-gh4/p1

April fool's. Eff this day.

Bought an E-M1 last weekend. Shooting sports and kids running around at work (elementary school), and autofocus does a great job keeping up! Almost every annoying thing about the E-M5 shooting experience is improved. Very happy.

not that i need to spend more money, but trade GF1 for EM-1?

1. low light performance
2. autofocus
3. my photos suck surely this will help

Should this be a more general compact-system thread now or should we keep it purely u43?

My wife is looking at something small and decent that has wi-fi. Was edging towards GX7 + 20/1.7 (had a play with GM1 - just TOO small; GM5 seems to fix that but at a cost). But we have both been wowed by friends' Fuji X cameras. One got the X100S (essentially a APS-C compact with a fixed 23 f/2 lens) and doesn't use his Canon 7D any more.

I love my X100S more than any camera I've ever used.

I went the GF1 to E-M1 route. Image quality is better (as you'd expect), but the real improvements are in handling and speed. The weather sealing has been useful.

X100S/T would be very, very tempting if I only needed a ~35mm equiv.

MJ: Has your wife looked at the E-PL bodies, or E-M10? The newest (E-PL7?) seems to tick all of those boxes, but is new enough that I don't think prices have had a chance to fall yet.

The EPL7 is definitely also on the list of models to play with. I don't think she's going to consider anything that doesn't have a compatible pancake prime. System or compact, she may never buy another thing for it (yeah, right).

So, GX7 + 20/1,7 is available as a bundle for £599. X100S (w/fixed 23/2,0) is around £799. EPL7 + Pan 20/1,7 = £638 (or £568 w/ Oly 17/2,8). Either of the u4/3rds cameras and she'd probably get the Oly 15/8,0 "lens cap" too, tbh. Or I'd just buy that for her as a stocking filler this Xmas.

I really do like the look of that latest Pen.

Too bad no one appears to offer an E-PL7 + 17mm/1.8 kit. Avoid the older 17/2.8 — slow and noisy AF, never gets sharp even stopped down.

The 14mm/2.5 is another cheap option, and as tiny as they come. Corners are merely adequate, but it's very sharp in the centre and blisteringly fast to focus. I got one on eBay a couple years back.

Spoiled for choice in µ43 land!

Thanks for the tip! 14/2,5 looks nice. I think I meant the 9/8,0 body cap above, but that looks to be a fish-eye. 17/1,8 looks a bit chunkier, perhaps more at home on an OM-D?

GX7 + 20/1.7 continuing to come down in price. Shame we missed the very limited double-cashback period over Xmas - would've effectively been around £450. GM1 is practically half its launch price now too. Fuji X still looks v tempting.

Am swithering between the X100T and XT1 myself right now.

So... Pam eventually went for the GX7 + 20/1.7. As we always knew she would ;)

The staff in Park Cameras on Rathbone Place were happy to let us play with a whole bunch of things for what seemed like hours (with a lunch break in the middle). While we knew the APS-C sensors of the Sony a6000 and Fuji X-E2 / X100T were going to offer better quality at the extreme end of things, the former was rejected on aesthetic grounds and the latter were just a bit too pricey*. Also, Pam was coming at this from the "better than a smartphone" angle rather than "lighter than my DSLR" angle that Fuji are really going for, so I think she's not that fussed about Fuji's superior EVFs but was concerned about their lack of touchscreens.

(* - there is an extraordinary deal going on at the moment, available in most UK outlets, where you can get the Fuji X-Pro1 with 17mm and 28mm pancake primes for £650. That's basically a free camera if you're only after the lenses (or vice versa). X-Pro1 has been pretty well outstripped by Fuji's later X-mount models (no wi-fi, not great AF, etc) but I imagine you could flog it on eBay as mint/as-new for £300ish and put that towards an X-E2 or an X-T1. And when I say "you", I mean "me". NO, NO, do not need.)

Oh, look - it's me 10 weeks ago telling myself I wouldn't buy a Fuji.

So...I got the X-M1 on a deal with the 27mm prime and the basic 16-50mm OIS zoom. It's cute, it's a bit cheap-feeling, but it has terrific dynamic range and colours straight off the bat. I was ready to be disappointed with how Adobe's Raw engine would deal with demosaicing files from the Fuji's unconventional sensor (everyone seems to complain about Lightroom + Fuji), but I like the default results and I've made a couple of sharpening presets following advice I read on a blog which improve things.

It does seem like the X-M1 is the runt of the litter; Fuji are very good at rolling out substantial firmware updates but the M hasn't had one for a while and it's pretty much disappeared from the shops. I guess it's about to be discontinued. But that's why I got such a deal on it.

And now Fuji are offering accumulative cashback on certain XF lenses. Oh stop it.

just saw that fuji cashback deal myself, trying very hard not to think about picking up the 16-55 f/2.8 for the £75 discount ahead of a trip to the US next month :(

Can you remind me which lenses you own for the Fuji X?

I'm lobbying LFH to start stocking Fuji gear (there are lens hire companies which rent out Fuji, but, unlike the LFH model, they require deposits, extensive ID for couriering to the workplace, etc). I can't really justify a 56/1.2 but it would be a nice thing to have in my bag at a wedding, supporting the Canon 135L/24-105L workhorses.

£225 off if you buy two lenses, BG. Just sayin'.

gah, stoppit! i already have lenses which cover the 16-55 range so really i'd be paying £700 for the privilege of not having to switch lenses occasionally, which is insane. yet somehow still tempting :(

i've got the 10-24mm, 23mm, 35mm, 56mm and 50-140mm. they're all among the sharpest lenses i've ever used, and the 56mm really is amazing - it would be great for weddings. everything i've read about the forthcoming 90mm f/2 seems to suggest it's optically even more impressive than the 56mm.

Yeah, I'm telling myself I really would never need the 90/2.0, as glorious as it sounds, as it's the same as my 135L on full-frame, and that is all I've ever wanted from a portrait prime. (Also not included in the cashback deal). OTOH, if I followed your lead and switched systems, it would be top of the list ;)

I guess if I was going for a twofer, it would be 35 + 56, though the former is really very close to my little pancake, if two stops faster. But if I'm applying my don't-replicate-what-I-can-do-with-a-FF-Canon logic, the 35 is also redundant. Really pretty impressed with the 16-50 at the wide end, so not hankering after any fast wide primes. Well, no more than usual.

The price of the X-T10 at launch is really low too - no more than the X-E2 currently is. Have they learned nothing from the big boys? Always ratchet up the RRP every model! And the firmware thing is remarkable - X-T1 w/FW 4.0 is a completely different camera to the one at launch, for no additional cost. They just get this stuff right, it seems.

yeah, their commitment to continuous improvement is pretty amazing - when i came to sell my x100 to upgrade to the x100s it was a much, much more responsive camera than it was when i bought it thanks to the firmware updates. can't wait to give the new x-t1 firmware a try next month.

i can't work quite out their thinking with the x-t10, though, because it seems so close in form and function to the x-t1 that i don't know why most people would choose the more expensive camera. the x-t10 has a slightly smaller viewfinder, a couple less physical dials and a smaller frame buffer but is basically the same camera at £500 instead of £800 afaict.

if i had to choose a two-lens kit i think i'd go 23mm and 56mm - those are the lenses i seem to use most on the x-t1. the 35mm is really a phenomenal lens, though, especially considering the price.

X-T1 is weather-sealed too, I guess. If you look at the price diff between, say, Canon 5D3 and 1DX, it seems to mostly come down to build quality (shutter that will last 3x longer, tank-like body, huge capacity battery), but what the cameras can actually do is very similar. Perhaps that's the thinking here.

Quite what Fuji are going to do with the "flagship" X-Pro will be interesting.

My OM-D E-M10 crapped out - in order to get the back LCD to work I have to hard reset the device on startup.

Should I ...

(1) get this repaired
(2) buy an OM-D E-M10 Mk III
(3) something else

I miss my GF1.

Maybe look for sales? The E-M10 series can usually be had for a bargain somewhere. The Mk. III and IV are both pretty nice. Maybe consider a GX85 or GX9?

of course beating in mind that Olympus have discontinued all their cameras grrr (OM-D E-M10 mk 2 owner with some $ in glass here)

*bearing

OM Digital is still selling everything. Jury's still out on how the new company will fare long-term, but cautious optimism seems warranted. There are a couple lenses and at least a new camera body in the pipeline for 2021.

Yeah, certainly don't jump ship if you've got some glass. Panasonic released another m43 body last year, I think, even though they seem to be going all in on the FF line. Still lots of nice third-party primes out there.

Repair ££ likely = finding a good E-M10 on eBay.

Thanks, eBay it is!

also you can sell yr old one to someone who wants a crack at fixing it, or for parts.
I just watched an E-M5 mk II with case, accessories but no lenses finish up for $US370 equivalent here.

Yeah, good call.

What is the average lifespan of a (theoretically quality) digital camera, anyway? A bit bummed that they seem to be disposable, although I guess I should have expected it.

Maybe I'm lucky, but my 12-year-old LX3 is still used by my parents, and my original E-M5 is still ticking. Some bits age more poorly than others...rubber grip material deteriorates, mechanical connections and motors wear out. I think lack of suitable batteries will eventually be the showstopper, but there's no reason a digital camera shouldn't last a decade or more.

Yeah tbf I could have treated mine better, will try not to make that mistake with the next child.

My kids have fully functional DSLRs from 2003-05. Granted, they don't actually care to use them much (I bought the eldest an EF-S 24/2.8 four years ago and that's a great lens! Pah), but I picked up a couple of third-party batteries, so they should keep going for a bit.

The received wisdom I'd heard was that something else would give out on a camera before the shutter mech reached the end of its natural life, regardless of what it was rated for, but that hasn't been my experience. My 300D shutter packed in around the five-year mark (still in a drawer, dead), and my 40D started misfiring around the same age (replaced the mech, later sold). Fine in other regards. My 6D is still going strong after 107k actuations (nearly 8 years old), but top dial is a bit sticky now.

(I bought an absolutely battered X-T1 secondhand in 2018 too... that occasionally has card errors, but it does look like it was dragged across concrete at some point in its life. More disappointing was having to get the 27/2.8 pancake repaired; focus motor gear issue. Only three years old. You kind of hope the lenses at least last decades).

Haven't had a shutter mechanism fail yet, but I'm sure it will happen eventually with all the use I get from my bodies. An underrated benefit of modern bodies with usable electronic shutter — prolonged mechanical shutter life.