The Films of Alexander Payne - C/D

Atmosphere was excellent in general, though, it gets a quiet holiday mood well

this is what i was curious about tbh. i don't expect this to be good, but i think spending 90m [edit: the film is 133 minutes] in christmastime '70s boarding school wouldn't be the worst and maybe even charming

Probably what I was hoping for, something like Bill Forsyth's Comfort and Joy (the tagline for Payne's film is "Discomfort and Joy," which may or may not be coincidental). But the two male leads are thoroughly unlikeable (each tells the other that everyone at the school hates them--typical of each, also true), and the lead is in mourning twice over. Hard to get there from here.

"lead female"

I was hoping for, something like Bill Forsyth's Comfort and Joy (the tagline for Payne's film is "Discomfort and Joy," which may or may not be coincidental).

Probably coincidental, as both that title and tag are inspired by the refrain of the traditional Christmas Carol "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen".

Tidings of...I knew that, and probably yes (with a slight chance of probably both).

No one else will bother to see The Holdovers

Weird assumption to make about a movie that's largely gotten very good reviews and heralded as a return to form for Payne. It was the first runner-up for the audience award at TIFF and has been touted for Oscar nominations. I'm planning to see it eventually.

i saw this tonight, it's a very sweet story

(xpost) That was referring to here, ILX, perhaps unduly influenced by the preponderance of negative commentary past Election when Payne's name comes up.

I love Election, liked Sideways a lot, liked Nebraska. The Holdovers probably will get AA nominations, primarily, I'd say, because it's the kind of film that gets AA nominations. I think there's an attempt to recapture some of Sideways and Nebraska's mood, but for me it falls well short.

133 minutes!!

Nebraska is my favorite of his films that I've seen. A lot of the credit should go to the screenwriter though I think.

For what it's worth, the screening I was at--rep theatre, maybe 20% smaller than a Cineplex--was packed.

Weirdly enough, despite not liking any Payne post Election, and not actually holding Hal Ashby in any particular reverence, this is a movie that I'm not actually dreading that much this Oscar season ... at least not compared to Maestro or The Color Purple (or Killers of the Flower Moon)

(Also, related, American Fiction felt like a Sideways redux that actually worked.)

Just seen The Holdovers... This was so bland and dull. The script is predictable and sickly sentimental, and the film is way overlong.

Yay!

(for some reason it's only just been released this weekend in the UK, missing the Christmas tie-in)

I feel like I know exactly what this movie will be like and am not interested in finding out if that’s true.

Occurred to me after I posted above: John Houseman comes up with a much better (unforgettable; Giamatti is instantly forgettable) portrayal of academic superciliousness in The Paper Chase.

I like that The Holdovers tried to recreate the visual and emotional experience of watching popular US film in the early 70s, with its fetishization of exclusivity and youth

I think Giamatti gives a more heartfelt and memorable performance than Houseman did in The Paper Chase to be honest

Yeah, clem, I'm with Orson Welles -- Houseman oozes falsity in so many roles, the sort of guy who sells "Britishness": an ersatz class.

Not sure if heartfelt mixes well with superciliousness, but for me, not even close; Houseman could not be more perfect in that role.

I'm still seeing the trailer for The Holdovers on TV--I guess it's gone into wider release before the Academy Awards. The one part when Giamatti calls out "That's a detention! That's another detention!" like he's in The Breakfast Club, god that makes me cringe. (Knocking the film, not the many people who like it; it's the kind of film I could have easily ended up liking.)

As I posted once on Facebook, it was my lifelong dream to give this speech to a grade 3 class on the first day of school. Just never got around to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQLW7v3s7KQ

The Holdovers has actually become a small hit.

I mean, The Boys in the Boat has outgrossed it twice over, so let's not focus too hard on B.O.

it doesn't stink, no

I know I was overdue to not hate a Payne film, and also overdue to like boomer nostalgia, so let me complete the in-a-blue-moon hat trick by saying I enjoyed this more than any single Hal Ashby film I've ever seen.

I liked it but I'm not mr. smart movie guy or anything

Me neither, it turns out. I even found a lot to like about Nyad this evening.

I liked ]Nyad, it is a very watchable film and Annette Bening's and Jodie Foster's performances are both just about perfect

Since Payne hasn't directed anything in several years and has dropped out of quite a few projects, I think it's good if he gets a solid hit out of a "safe" one, just to get his career moving and (hopefully) pull together the clout needed to make something that's been stuck in limbo. Before this, he hadn't had a hit, critical or commercial, in a full decade.

It's weird being in the target demographic for The Holdovers - total cinema comfort food, very-good-but-not-great and as mentioned earlier - sometimes an imaginary Hal Ashby movie is better than the real thing.

i know that it aims exactly for this, but it doesnt do anything that a prestige young ryan o neal vehicle wouldnt in terms of the higher brow effort, and it falls some way short of giving us anything too piercing in terms of interactions between the younger cast caricatures

i thought it was pleasant but theres a reason this guy directs half-interesting swipes at rich america that i only bother to catch when stuck for something to watch

watched half of the Holdovers on the plane, do not feel moved to watch the rest. I have *hever* that I can remember not liked a Payne movie, and what I like about them is that there's a kind of sharpness to them, they don't go down easy -- this one, well, "cinema comfort food" is a good description. The group of holdover kids were a curated bunch of types like the Bad News Bears, except, again, without the sharpness of the (original) Bad News Bears.

Now that I think of it, what I really wish is that Payne, rather than Richard Linklater, had made the Bad News Bears reboot. That might have been good. Is Giamatti actor enough to play Buttermaker?

I think Giamatti gives a more heartfelt and memorable performance than Houseman did in The Paper Chase to be honest

― Dan S, Saturday, January 20, 2024 6:27 PM (four weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

The best-ever 70s-style performance of dead-inside old man academic is Donald Sutherland in Animal House. Anybody can play "doesn't fuck, sad and alone, can't exist in the world of grownups" what's hard is playing "fucks but is still sad and alone and can't exist in the world of grownups"

The group of holdover kids were a curated bunch of types like the Bad News Bears, except, again, without the sharpness of the (original) Bad News Bears.

not trying to convince you to watch the rest of the movie if you weren't into the beginning, but the "group of holdover kids" becomes irrelevant to the plot fairly early on (though i guess after you stopped watching)

Just saw the trailer for The Bad News Bears because i've never seen it. I guess it, er.. doesn't get shown on tv much these days.

There are reasons, but the heart of the movie is very warm and true, I recommend watching it (original of course)

bad news bears rules *canonically* ie it is fact, also it belongs to a time that no longer exists & that is part of why it is so great.

See also: Breaking Away

otm! THE BEST

Glad Da'Vine Joy Randolph won Best Supporting Actress at the BAFTAs this weekend. Deserves the Oscar as well.

I think it's great she's getting these well deserved kudos but I still get a real sense that Payne simply didn't know what to do with the character at a certain point and essentially dumped her off at her sis's for a good chunk of the movie's latter half. Part of me was all "Kinda wish I could hang around here more!" (Unintentional but instructive comparison would be how American Fiction dwells on layers of grief in a Black American family; obviously the focus and intent of the two films differs but, you know...)

I saw both within days of each other and loved having the Boston-and-environs pairing.

Thought this was okay, but it just reminded me about how great Election is (never have seen Citizen Ruth, need to correct that).

Payne simply didn't know what to do with the character at a certain point

Is there any reporting that he excised a fully-integrated co-lead from half the film because he personally disagreed or didn’t identify with her conception or presentation? Given Payne’s past efforts to sideline screenwriters, one presumes that he would have taken a writing credit if he made such a significant change.

Citizen Ruth v good.

Thought this was okay, but it just reminded me about how great Election is

I think that's easily his best film and so far the only one he's made that I'd call a great film. There's something to like about all of his films, and he definitely had the benefit of marquee stars later on, but at this point, I want to say he's an excellent writer and a fine director who's never really lived up to the potential suggested I would have guessed from Election.

It's too bad Downsized was so difficult to make and may have seriously hindered his chances at making more ambitious films in the future. The critical reception was polarizing for good reason - on the one hand, the scale of its ambition, from the more inventive (sci-fi) bits of the film to the scope of its ideas, were all commendable. It's the type of thing I'd like to see from a filmmaker in terms of stepping out and expanding their comfort zone. But unfortunately the conception or the execution was fatally flawed, particularly the socioeconomic ideas that come across as vaguely researched rather than edifying or even understood. (Too many moments seem to lean on misguided stereotypes.)

Anyway, in his defense, I'll also add that he's really great at setting up all of his films when it comes time to make them - everything from the casting to the locations in The Holdovers is impeccable, and as expected he was heavily involved in that. (Casting in particular took a long time - the lead child actor never acted on camera before and even after he was cast, Payne knew he'd need some instruction in that regard.)

*potential I would have guessed from Election

i haven't seen any of his movies between sideways and the holdovers, but it seems like after election he moved from making movies about anger to movies about sadness. which is fine, but anger has a lot more energy/drive than sadness. there's just so much simmering tension and resentment throughout election that gives it a spark.

i think sideways his best

@eephus- rather strangely after reading your post, but while writing mine above i actually did wonder whether i wouldnt much rather have seen linklaters holdovers