rolling “Trump is gonna win” containment thread

Berating people makes one feel awesome for a few seconds; it's futile, though. Local politics, however, do a lot to assuage the sense of despair. I mean, a year ago I watched as the rest of the country (largely) rejected Trumpism while in Florida it had triumphed handily. I refused to turn on the gas oven.

I detest cheap sentiment.

I do think it'll be interesting if one-term presidential turnover becomes the new norm, and it'll be hard not to speculate as to what that means in the larger sense.

If Trump wins in 24 we aren’t going to get to vote for another president ever again.

well, yeah

Even entertaining that fantasy, who in our right mind do we expect Trump would ever, ever handpick and declare worthy of succeeding his royal legacy?

That assumes that even if Trump loses in 24 the House certifies the election and we don't just not-have-a-President.

Dude is going to need a lot more juice with the military than he actually has to make these scenarios happen

I do think it'll be interesting if one-term presidential turnover becomes the new norm, and it'll be hard not to speculate as to what that means in the larger sense.

One only needs to look across the Potomac. Virginia's governors are weak by design, and can't serve consecutive terms.

Some serve nonconsecutively, or as part of a machine that ensures some continuity of control, but mostly it's a bunch of grandstanding where each governor gets to move the ball a few yards down or up the field, then departs for another office. The next governor either reverses direction, or moves the ball slightly further.

As a result they do vastly more posturing than governing, and if they do any governing at all (cf. Youngkin) it is mostly cheap, easy, quuck, and probably bad. Like hot-button culture-war shit about books, bathrooms, and weed.

Term limits sound like a good idea in theory, to dislidge entrenched power. However, in practice, term limits tend to create trash politics because cheap, easy, quick, bad stuff is way easier to pull off than sustained efforts to improve people's lives in long-term ways.

Ugh * quick, dislodge

The military fear (if you're going to have one) shouldn't be the army propping up Trump but in the collapse of democratic institutions they bring in their own man. President Mad Dog sends Elizabeth Holmes to Guantanamo for embarrassing him.

don't threaten me with a good time

thinkin' about Gramsci and how the left could counter fascism by being the upholders of American democracy, against the chaotic revolutionary Right hordes, similar to the Popular FRont in France upheld itself as the defender of the Republic.

I understand people's reluctance to vote FOR Biden and/or any number of Dems for many good reasons. A lot of this to me comes down to how you think about your vote. I get the argument that a vote has to be earned, I think that's a fair way of looking at it — it's just not the way I think of it.

This has been an evolutionary process for me, I voted for Nader in 2000 exactly because I didn't feel like Gore had "earned" my vote (and also because I was in a state that Bush was going to win handily anyway, so it was a safe protest vote). But I've moved away from that. Now, especially at the national level — local level can be different — I am mostly voting AGAINST people. Which I think is also a rational way to approach it. Who's the worst, and who has the best chance of beating the person who's the worst? On that count, I don't have to worry too much about whether Biden has "earned" my vote — I never wanted him in the first place! — but only about keeping Trump out of the White House. And, again voting in a state that Trump is going to win easily, I want to officially register dissent from the majority view, to remind the people who run this place that at least 4 out of 10 residents (or whatever the number ends up being) are not on board with the GOP platform.

You can argue philosophically about whether we should continually find ourselves in a lesser-evil situation, but realistically that's mostly how things have been my entire voting life and it's how I expect them to remain. Not that I don't hope for or vote for better — one reason I like primaries is the opportunity to sometimes vote for people I actually like. But at the either/or binary that especially characterizes presidential elections, I'm thinking solely in practical terms. I can list lots of reasons I don't like Biden, but none of them gets me anywhere close to thinking that Trump isn't a galactically worse prospect.

Tipsy OTM

I am mostly voting AGAINST people

Yup, and I'm not even just speaking about the candidates themselves anymore.

my position has always been that as a vote is the goofiest and least effective political action you can possibly take, you can just toss yours to democrats without fretting over your soul-- it has been brought home to me the last couple weeks tho how vulnerable this low-stakes approach leaves you to, for example, not being able to look at the president's fucking face without wanting to fucking puke

It never fails to enrage me when a relative or colleague says, "I'm voting for the lesser of two evils" as if they just minted the line.

Tipsy otmfm

I am certainly not trying to shame anyone. I just have a hard time understanding how anyone can not grasp how dire the possibility of a Trump victory in 24 is.

iirc in 24 it's okay to use extreme methods to stop dire outcomes from happening

Like what?

I will say, in 2008 I did think I was voting _for_ someone, rather than _against_ someone.

https://mediaproxy.tvtropes.org/width/350/https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/jack_bauer_torture.jpg

That's how I see it as well. I have a lot of issues with Biden too, but if I'm being honest he's almost certainly the best President of my lifetime. I hate the way he's handling the Middle East right now, but I'm not gonna pretend anyone else in American politics would've handled it differently. The point is I've come to accept that national politics really is just about moving that Overton window ever so slightly whenever you can, even if you're dissatisfied with Biden (which is 100% understandable) I genuinely don't see how the country survives another four years of Trump and it's an open question of whether or not we'll even be a democracy at all by the time he's through. And even if I don't think Biden's earned my vote at the end of the day I just really love seeing the GOP eat shit given everything they've put us through these last several years. I know this isn't important but a big part of what made 2016 so traumatic is just seeing all the most horrible and thoughtless people in the country celebrate as though their entire godawful and oppressive worldview was suddenly validated. And they got the reward they craved so badly, which was getting to hear people like me whine about it.

the country might survive four more years of Trump, but my sanity certainly won't

I will say, in 2008 I did think I was voting _for_ someone, rather than _against_ someone.

Yeah, and I felt that way a bit in '92 too — easy to forget how fresh Clinton seemed coming out of the Reagan-Bush era. (Plus, I was young then and had had fewer illusions shattered.) But we saw how both of those turned out. I don't regret either vote, mind you. But both also informed my current view that you are always choosing between being disappointed and being utterly repulsed — or even choosing between somewhat less repulsed or more repulsed.

The point is I've come to accept that national politics really is just about moving that Overton window ever so slightly whenever you can

Yep otm. Partly because of all the ways the system is rigged for the benefit of wealth and power, but also partly just because this is a huge and diverse country and by the time you boil the choices down to just two or three options nobody's going to get anywhere close to everything they hope or want.

And even if I don't think Biden's earned my vote at the end of the day

Here's the thing that I'm always left wondering when people use this phrase — what do you actually want? Like, gimme a concrete list of things that would make you say, "Ah, Joe Biden has well and truly earned my vote!" I don't even give a fuck if the list is "assassinate Benjamin Netanyahu" or "outlaw private health insurance" or "declare the US a socialist nation and tax everyone who makes more than me at 95%" ...just gimme the list. What would earn your precious, precious vote?

he could give me the $600 he owes me for starters

Just posted in the politics thread, from a voter at a Dean Phillips Q&A:

“I’m a Black person; sitting out would be one of the hardest things for me to ever do. There are people who died for my right to vote,” Chan said through tears minutes later. “I feel like I’m being put in a very precarious situation because I never want to disrespect my ancestors. … I’m gonna have to vote for somebody, and it’s going to be hard, because everyone who is running right now, they’re all not people I would ever want to vote for.”

I debated which of these two threads to drop that in ...

I don't think "earning" is a helpful framing at all really. It's making it about morality, in the same way "well Biden doesn't want to do it" focuses on the individual politician's morality. It's an easy way to berate ppl for "purity tests" and all the usual bullshit tho.

really though all I'm referring to is the difference between a person I'm enthusiastic about and might even canvass for and a person who's "good enough" and clearly way way better than the alternative. if you want specifics, my two main things are 1) someone who takes the climate crisis as seriously as every scientist on the planet says we should and 2) someone at least willing to bend the rules that the GOP are gleefully stomping over. I hate when Pelosi says shit like "this country needs a strong Republican party" but she's not completely wrong. The GOP has a built in advantage in all 3 houses thanks to gerrymandering and the Electoral College, plus the fact that states with 40 million residents get just as many Senators as states with 1 million. I want someone willing to shake things up. I hate living in a state where Dems can win by 3-4 points and still control only 25% of the state senate seats. Abolish the EC, give DC statehood, pack the courts, whatever it takes to pull us out of this dumb reality where Republican/rural votes matter 4x as much as ours do. If Republicans don't like it then maybe they should figure out how to actually win votes instead of taking the dumbest, most extreme positions on everything.

obviously kind of a moot point, but since you asked....

(and yes, I live in Wisconsin, so my vote is precious! everyone should be pandering to me!!!!)

^^^ lots of otm this past hour imo.

I know this isn't important but a big part of what made 2016 so traumatic is just seeing all the most horrible and thoughtless people in the country celebrate as though their entire godawful and oppressive worldview was suddenly validated. And they got the reward they craved so badly, which was getting to hear people like me whine about it.

otm

and it's the high they continue to chase by any means necessary

I know this isn't important but a big part of what made 2016 so traumatic is just seeing all the most horrible and thoughtless people in the country celebrate as though their entire godawful and oppressive worldview was suddenly validated.

history of the Democratic Party

Seeing ghouls like Jeff Sessions cavort on stage that night was truly awful.

Which brings me back to, again, my mixed feelings over the self-realization that, yup, I in fact don't even vote for or against candidates anymore but rather against specific groups of people in the U.S. (I guess maybe I take that to the ILXORs over 40 thread ...)

and it's the high they continue to chase by any means necessary

what's crazy to me is it's 2023 and right wing memes are *still* using the same few "triggered liberal" pictures that they've been using for seven years now, almost implying the guiding light to everything they do is making these particular people upset

who I really feel bad for is this person:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/triggered-feminist--2

idk if she was ever identified but if you watched the full video that still comes from she's not really upset at all, in fact she comes off rather calm and rational but she just has an expressive face and someone got an unfortunate freeze frame of it. and now she's been the poster child for "triggered SJWs" for close to an entire decade because these guys have no natural sense of humor and can only share the same jokes and memes over and over and over again. they're still doing the Pepe the Frog shit for god's sake! feel like there's a good character piece about her waiting to be written.

I've never seen that!

That's the thing I've noticed about conservatives--they run their jokes into the fucking ground. They are like the guy who says, "Are you working hard or hardly working" twelve times a day. They were still going on about Teddy Kennedy into the 00s. They are still going on about Shrillary. It is less about actual humor than some kind of mating call they do for each other.

I always thought the triggered feminist meme worked because she looks a bit like a young Elizabeth Warren.

Conservative "humor" always, always comes at someone else's expense.

Also, it makes sense. Conservatism is inherently advocating for going backwards in time.

I used to work with this lady who loved to point out that we had this restaurant near the lake called "The Oar House". To her this was the funniest thing that has ever happened in human civilization. I swear every single day I'd hear her talking about it. Especially during lunch time..."Should we go to the Oar House? You know, the Oar House? Do you understand what I am saying? It sounds like Whore House? Has anyone ever heard of The Oar House?". Anyway, this woman had some thoughts about Barack Obama

At my old job one of the partners would walk around the office every Friday and every Friday, at every desk he stopped by, he would lead with "are we done yet?" as if it was the most witty possible thing to say.

I find enthusiastic anti-Trump Democrat party boosters absolutely exhausting and frequently as deluded and myopic as the nutjobs at a Trump rally in their own way, not directed at anyone here. But I understand how racial minorities/trans people with absolutely legitimate fears for even their right to exist if a white supremacist Mussolini wanabe won, can both either decide to cover their nose and vote against the danger or decide they hate the Dems enough not to support them. What angers me about this godawful iteration of democracy through fear is how it suits the agenda of all the worst people in both parties to have a fascist bogeyman who wins the odd election. Admittedly this is based on the continued existence of general elections and the existing constitution. Oh fuck knows, I'm a Brit so apologies if this is is annoying.

I find enthusiastic anti-Trump Democrat party boosters absolutely exhausting and frequently as deluded and myopic as the nutjobs at a Trump rally in their own way

Don't turn on MSNBC.

At my old job one of the partners would walk around the office every Friday and every Friday, at every desk he stopped by, he would lead with "are we done yet?" as if it was the most witty possible thing to say.

― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, November 3, 2023 2:34 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LtjzQaFZ3k

don't worry. it's the US constitution's paranoia about allowing democracy to function that is beyond annoying.

Democrat party boosters

As yr British I’ll assume this is an honest mistake, but fwiw “Democrat party” is a dumb right-wing insult here in the US of A. They refuse to say “Democratic” on the ostensible grounds that it isn’t really democratic. (It’s weird that they still do this now that conservatives have decided that democracy itself is bad, but I think it’s so engrained at this point that they can’t help it.)

sorry about that, pure ignorance on my side here. lol, how the Trump Cases turned me into a budding Fred B wading into a\ political culture I know nothing about.