I have no doubt there will be some abhorrent use of RICO. Tbh my interest in this one is mainly just for entertainment. I just need the distraction from how depressing everything else is.
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Friday, 20 October 2023 18:00 (six months ago) link
more like chesemelt amirite
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra),
curtain call for this, very good
― that's when I reach for my copy of Revolver (WmC), Friday, 20 October 2023 19:02 (six months ago) link
otm
― close encounters of the third knid (darraghmac), Friday, 20 October 2023 20:58 (six months ago) link
Without commenting on this particular situation, FYI there are civil claims under RICO statutes too. Civil RICO claims can be brought by the government or by private citizens. There is no prison time in civil RICO claims.
So not every instance of a RICO case will mean someone's in jeopardy of going to prison.
― felicity, Friday, 20 October 2023 21:24 (six months ago) link
Well I guess anyone in a courtroom is in jeopardy of going to jail if they behave badly enough. I just mean prison not a remedy under civil RICO.
― felicity, Friday, 20 October 2023 21:26 (six months ago) link
BREAKING: Attorney JENNA ELLIS is taking a plea deal in Fulton County. She's pleading guilty to one count of aiding and abetting false statements and writings— Tamar Hallerman (@TamarHallerman) October 24, 2023
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 13:46 (six months ago) link
For those the can't or won't read Twitter (fair!), she goes on to post:
The terms: 5 years probation$5000 restitution to the Georgia Secretary of State’s officeFirst offender status100 hours community serviceApology letterTestify truthfullyNo communication with co-defendants, witnesses and mediaAdditional recorded statements to prosecutors
And as someone else posts:
Nice little reminder that as these various co-defendants plead guilty they're all implicating Trump in different prongs of the larger RICO conspiracy.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 13:48 (six months ago) link
the fact that the sentences are so lenient has to be pretty appealing to the rest
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 13:50 (six months ago) link
https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/00/72/03/89/240_F_72038944_pdmoHuXTyDyxrgqOtshAJvMAEoKa7OBm.jpg
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 13:56 (six months ago) link
hate to be this guy but what are the chances none of this is gonna matter because of a hung jury?
― frogbs, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 13:57 (six months ago) link
A well-hung jury
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 14:15 (six months ago) link
Carrot/stick, etc.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 14:19 (six months ago) link
who knows, but I will enjoy laughing when dipshit whines that his "deal" wasn't as lenient as everyone else's
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 14:24 (six months ago) link
The Art of the Squeal
― Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable POST (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 14:27 (six months ago) link
I swear I misread "Testify truthfully" and "Testify tearfully"
― Look closely, that is all. (doo dah), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 14:30 (six months ago) link
so they started off last month with a shortlist of 900 potential jurors. I was thinking how many of these can be jury candidates who are genuinely impartial and unopinionated on this case - there will be some recusals and perhaps some dishonesty. I imagine the screening process for such a big case will be putting these mofos under a microscope, the FBI probably already have everything they've ever posted!
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 14:30 (six months ago) link
What exactly is the point of a jury system where the jurors are hand-picked by the legal teams? Hardly a cross-section of 'peers'. Maybe they should use all 900 and let them fight it out in a vast jury room a la A Matter of Life and Death.
― I must be the unluckiest man alive (Matt #2), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 14:34 (six months ago) link
As I understand it, it's not that they are hand-picked, per se, but that lawyers have a certain number of "vetoes," and have to do so strategically. (Lawyers, is this right?) Like, lawyers can't just say "no" to every juror, forever, especially when everyone knows the defendant and their alleged crimes.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 14:41 (six months ago) link
makes me think of the OJ case. which infamously returned the wrong verdict
― frogbs, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 14:50 (six months ago) link
I like how this guy is starting to increasingly rely on 'look over there!' responses, per WaPo:
Steve Sadow, lead counsel for Trump in the Georgia case, pointed to the prosecution’s willingness to dismiss Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations charges, commonly known as RICO, as evidence of what he indicated was Willis’s true strategy.“For the fourth time, Fani Willis and her prosecution team have dismissed the RICO charge in return for a plea to probation,” he said. “What that shows is this so-called RICO case is nothing more than a bargaining chip for DA Willis. Moreover, this plea was to a completely separate charge, not a part of the original indictment, which doesn’t even mention President Trump.”
“For the fourth time, Fani Willis and her prosecution team have dismissed the RICO charge in return for a plea to probation,” he said. “What that shows is this so-called RICO case is nothing more than a bargaining chip for DA Willis. Moreover, this plea was to a completely separate charge, not a part of the original indictment, which doesn’t even mention President Trump.”
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 15:10 (six months ago) link
I also turn on the waterworks when I plead guilty to making bad posts
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 16:15 (six months ago) link
Steve Saddo
― real warm grandpa (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 16:17 (six months ago) link
“What that shows is this so-called RICO case is nothing more than a bargaining chip for DA Willis."
Congratulations for understanding how the U.S. justice system works.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 16:28 (six months ago) link
Cohen testified about the statement of financial condition: "I was tasked by Mr. Trump to increase the total assets based upon a number that he arbitrarily elected, and my responsibility, along with Allen Weisselberg, predominantly, was to reverse engineer...— erica orden (@eorden) October 24, 2023
...the various different asset classes, increase those assets in order to achieve the number that Mr. Trump had tasked us."As Cohen testified, Trump shook his head, looking red in the face.— erica orden (@eorden) October 24, 2023
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:05 (six months ago) link
Cohen is a bit of a dickhead but has a fantastic Noo Yawk accent. Bad move by Trump to make an enemy of someone who was involved with this particular financial fraud and has the receipts.
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:12 (six months ago) link
Trump has been doing this kind of stuff for so long it may be inconceivable to him that there's any other way to do things. He would probably also say that everybody does it, which is almost certainly true! And he woulda got away with it if it weren't for those pesky kids getting elected president and trying to overthrow an election.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:13 (six months ago) link
I have no doubt it's a wide spread practice. Maybe the cost of investigating is just too high, but they really should be prosecuting more of these.
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:23 (six months ago) link
one thing the trump story has demonstrated or at least strong suggested is that white collar crime is wide spread and only lightly policed
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:29 (six months ago) link
It's so brazen I'd suggest it's also only lightly polished.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:31 (six months ago) link
If Trump had friends I bet he'd be invoking the "all my friends are doing it!" defense.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:32 (six months ago) link
if theres no one watching theres no reason to do a good job
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:32 (six months ago) link
sometimes during a witch hunt, you catch actual witches
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:33 (six months ago) link
He's never actually denied being a witch.
― nashwan, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:35 (six months ago) link
it's defrauding the market and can have a negative impact on ordinary folk who want to borrow from banks themselves. But I think most of the public don't really care that much about it and dismiss it as one the lesser crimes that rich people do. Obv this is just based on a feeling and not quoting any solid opinion polling. But possibly it would prosecuted more if there was more public outrage.
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:35 (six months ago) link
pretty sure theres a high public disapproval of rich people getting away with stuff
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:36 (six months ago) link
I heard a good analogy: you secretly 'borrow' $100 from your boss on a Friday, go to a casino on Saturday and win $1000, then replace the $100 monday morning
Not only did you steal the $100 from your employers, you also stole the other $900 since you couldn't have won it without the first theft
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:38 (six months ago) link
witch hunt
In Trump's case, more like a lil' bitch hunt.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:39 (six months ago) link
well right now it's more of a snitch hunt
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:40 (six months ago) link
xxpyeah, I'm probably posting bollox here! But it's kind of boring fraud, like maybe the public get more animated when there are lurid tales of gold bars hidden in the wardrobe or whatever.
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:41 (six months ago) link
it's a miracle he got any work done with all those criminals around him
― StanM, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:42 (six months ago) link
im sure they would, and that dynamic is illustrative of the corrupt nature of the system altogether, if the people get fired up you can throw them a bone then continue on as per usual xp
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:44 (six months ago) link
it's kind of boring fraud
This is part of the challenge for sure. Like I had a generally well-informed friend saying he just can't get interested in the SBF case because anything to do with crypto just makes his eyes glaze over — a sane reaction, but actually it's been a very entertaining trial imo once you get past the gobbledygook.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:46 (six months ago) link
the sbf trial is so crazy and funny if you dont like that you dont like financial crimes
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:51 (six months ago) link
is there anyone recommendable doing interesting coverage of the sbf case?
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:54 (six months ago) link
crypto is basically a way to do crimes that are way too stupid to get off the ground in the normal financial system, you gotta love it
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:54 (six months ago) link
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, October 24, 2023 1:54 PM (five seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink
these guys are prob deeper into the case and the whole scene than anyone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvy1IJyax6E
matt levine also frequently writes about it https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-10-12/ftx-had-many-bad-spreadsheets
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:58 (six months ago) link
thanks, I needed a new wormhole to go down!
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 18:00 (six months ago) link
enjoy, its good stuff lol
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 18:01 (six months ago) link
the whole lewis take of "but wait-- the money isn't necessarily even gone because ~accounting~, there's a good chance many victims will be made whole" at that point my eyes don't glaze over but just refuse to look there because fuck these guys
― i'd meet u where u are, but that place really sucks (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 18:01 (six months ago) link
lewis is really not covering himself in glory recently, which is a shame hes such a good writer, the government has throughly demonstrated that the money is in fact gone, not all of it but prob like half, also even if the money was all there the ftx brass were simply doing crimes left and right
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 18:06 (six months ago) link