Israel to World: "Suck It."

but it's the thought that counts

I found this letter from Arielle Angel compelling

xxp he can call for his pipe, his bowl, and his fiddlers three, who gives a shit

"Bibi is absent"

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/10/in-the-israel-hamas-war-netanyahu-is-losing-at-home.html

"Opposition leader Yair Lapid, who has refused to join the emergency war cabinet as long as Netanyahu keeps his extremist ministers, accused the government of an “unforgivable failure” and said “he who brought about this failure cannot fix it.” On September 20, Lapid, who is privy to top-secret intelligence briefings, warned in a video message that he had reason to believe that Israel was vulnerable to a multifront attack as a result of “the government’s lack of coordination with security agencies.” The prime minister’s office issued its fourth denial about having dismissed any such prior warning. Netanyahu was updated only “when the fighting broke out and not before.”

Thanks for the further thoughts, Man Alive (its always worth expanding, people aren't always as fixed as they might appear)

BREAKING: Israel’s military has directed the evacuation of northern Gaza, a region that is home to 1.1 million people, within 24 hours, according to a U.N. spokesman. https://t.co/6B5Hjjy9hg

— The Associated Press (@AP) October 13, 2023

this is really bad

They...aren't going to use nukes or anythin that mental are they? :|

The chief minister of Scotland has family in Gaza.

UN has said the order to move 1.1m people in 24 hours will lead to "devastating humanitarian consequences"

The international community must step up and demand an end to collective punishment. Enough. There can be no justification for the death of innocent men, women & children. https://t.co/b2IlGARfXT

— Humza Yousaf (@HumzaYousaf) October 13, 2023

xpost: of course they are

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon

“Why, our people are here because genocide was committed against us. What we need to do is commit genocide against other people after keeping them in glorified camps for generations! Surely God will smile upon us.”

The dissonance and wickedness embedded within this line of thinking is, objectively, completely off the charts.

The headline: “Israel shows Mutilated Babies”

The picture: Palestinian children affected by Israeli airstrikes on Gaza.

This is the third day in a row they do this. https://t.co/jOzxmgqXcj

— Mohammed El-Kurd (@m7mdkurd) October 13, 2023

So this "day of rage". Announced a few days ago and I hadn't heard about it until last night when a superior at work suggested we not come in. Not an official decree from the company though, just the head of a department. Going online and I see reports of protests, one or two attacks in europe and thousands of posts from americans talking about their 2nd amendment rights.

Israel's president is denying the concept of innocent civilians, on the brink of a major military offensive. A very bad sign. https://t.co/bePxxDVEE6 pic.twitter.com/mdtWoYEGTJ

— Henry Mance (@henrymance) October 13, 2023

I didn't hear about this day of rage until right now. Uh, seems bad.

I saw it as “Day of Jihad” and it seems like a FacebookUncle holiday

Trying to think exactly what the phrase was so I could unwrap i properly but somebody used a term like unnecessary civilian damage or casualties to Chris Hayes a couple of days ago. Sounded pretty dodgy even on surface. Like there was a necessary level?

yeah it’s gussied up right wing nonsense, amazing how so many seeming liberals’ critical faculties atrophy in these moments

xp, the “global day of jihad” stuff. nypd “hasn’t received any credible threats,” of course

There was someone doing donuts on a bridge into NYC waving a Palestinian flag. Terrifying.

fuck Israel's president. jesus christ that rhetoric.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the Dresden analogy in that Naftali Bennett interview.

I think he was saying the Allied Press didn't give a shit about what was happening in Dresden, because that was the enemy

The footage of someone doing donuts in New York was apparently fake. Afaik, it's from some other time and was a Puerto Rican flag. Everyone should be very vigilant against fake stuff on social media right now.

forced rapid expulsions of large numbers of civilians are never anything less than catastrophic and deadly even when done over weeks rather than hours. Was just recently reading a book on the subject called Orderly and Humane. The lack of pushback on this action from the West is just so predictable and depressing.

people do donuts all over the freeways in the bay area every single day and it is annoying but not some sign of impending jihad

unless the jihad is me going fucking psycho on them when they do them on the residential street near my house

Most of my childhood friends are Jewish and have exactly one viewpoint, which they believe to be the only sane and informed viewpoint. Most of my adult friends are lefty Americans and have exactly one (diametrically opposed) viewpoint, which they believe to be the only sane and informed viewpoint.

And then there's god...

Israel's president is denying the concept of innocent civilians, on the brink of a major military offensive. A very bad sign. https://t.co/bePxxDVEE6 pic.twitter.com/mdtWoYEGTJ

— Henry Mance (@henrymance) October 13, 2023

I know what you mean though. This point of view absolutely makes sense to the person sitting next to me right now, but sounds to me like madness.

YMP - this is why the extent of my posting on FB re this situation was a Heather Cox Richardson post share

*Anakin/Padme meme* - "the celebrities are going to start posting photos of missing Palestinian children next right?...... right?

man I can't deal with heather cox richardson's 75 paragraph posts.

YMP/Raymond -
I wonder if this is a Gen X vs. Millennial thing; all of my Jewish friends (not tons but...) and the younger members of my (Jewish) family are all opposed to violence by the state of Israel. The older generations are, you know, opposed to violence but are pro-Israel and see it as justified. Noticed the same thing with my wife - she was surprised a friend of hers was really open about supporting Palestine (mid-fifties person), but to me... it's not unusual. Not sure what this means or portends. If anything.

Raymond C. I would be a bit more chill if I hadn't just seen THREE real humans - people who I've known all my life - do this specific thing.

They simultaneously say "ask me anything and I will give you unbiased information that is nuanced and fact-based," while they also have an Israeli flag as their profile picture with "I stand with Israel."

Personally I understand why some folks "stand with Israel."

What I DO NOT understand is someone who simultaneously says "I stand with Israel" but is also like "maybe you don't understand the history so let me school you." Thanks, but I would rather not be schooled by someone who has already announced their enduring allegiance, and it is... unsurprisingly, exactly what I thought it would be.

How convenient that you have come, after careful consideration, to exactly the same conclusion that you would have come to when we met in 1979.

xp to ian, judging by the folks i know from my childhood, it is not a generational thing

i've seen a fair mix, my wife is shook by everything but empathetic towards palestinian people, and would rather not think about the whole thing because it makes her feel helpless. her friend's husband is israeli and his whole family is back there, and obviously he's terrified. my friend is israel is okay, thankfully, but she's only physically ok, mentally she's a mess. i have other friends here who are more vocally opposed to the israeli response, plus at least one guy i know who seems to be Team Hamas to a degree that fits in with his pro-Kanye/Kyrie thoughts around the time of their "opinions" on Jewish people. there are a few younger jewish acquaintances who are deeply pained by the entire israeli response, my sense being that they're not feeling as if there should be ZERO response but not a response that will target civilians at all.

at my son's school there was a kid in his class who purportedly told some israeli kids in another class that he supported Hamas. that perhaps obv led to a fight. i think the other kids had picked on him before, maybe he just reached for something to lash out at them with. it's just such an ugly situation, trickling down to the kids on the other side of the world.

Essentially: This is horrible on its face, but it's ALSO nuanced and complicated historically, but in one very glaring present aspect pretty simple, but then at the same time I haven't read/studied enough on the whole thing to have a cogent, penetrating thing to say about it (in part because it's historically and socially and interpersonally fraught for obvious reasons) that won't erupt into some pretty brutal timeline arguments that will result in me deleting the post and then never posting about it again, because I'm deeply argument/confrontation averse, for better or worse.

TL/DR: "I don't know why I'm still on social media"

This isn't to say that my feelings are worth more than any person's life, but that I don't know if me weighing in (again, without enough context to offer much of value) contributes anything to the larger discourse/mood.

Holy fuck. They hit a children's hospital with white phosphorous. What the fuck. https://t.co/xZcqHcwFax

— Anthony Doyle (@Anthonysmdoyle) October 13, 2023

Article I linked earlier has been 'updated'.

https://twotter.com/adamjohnsonCHI/status/1712850249994125447?s=20

SCOOP– Hours after Israel ordered an exodus in Gaza, State Department officials circulated internal warnings against 3 phrases:
"de-escalation/ceasefire"
"end to violence/bloodshed"
"restoring calm"
It's the latest sign the US won't urge Israeli restrainthttps://t.co/208jxoVP3e

— Akbar Shahid Ahmed (@AkbarSAhmed) October 13, 2023

this language has now been removed from the article. The quote is authentic and was reported by several other outlets-> https://t.co/h7erK2sd0Z

Archived version on the left, live version on the right https://t.co/Gf7Utc5jkG pic.twitter.com/ucVZN595sM

— Adam H. Johnson (@adamjohnsonCHI) October 13, 2023

xp

Xp to Raymond - Yeah, the terrifying feeling of helplessness sometimes makes me feel like I need to contribute to the discourse in some way, just because it feels like the only thing I can do. But that's not a reason to post. It can be therapeutic to commiserate with people who feel the way you do but you're not gonna get that on social media.

The depths the Israelis have gone to...what a catastrophe

The Israeli military told Palestinians in Gaza must flee the north towards the south then they bombed them as they fled. Most international correspondents are in the safety of Tel Aviv and haven’t reported on this. Livid isn’t enough of a word

— Mohammed El-Kurd (@m7mdkurd) October 13, 2023

Right, Fetchboy? Right?

My longer post above is probably true of a whole lot of people who also are aghast and CARE but feel hesitant to step into this discussion in a public way - the people who seemingly "are going about their business like it's any day or any week".

A billionaire private equity firm CEO is calling on the leaders of the University of Pennsylvania to resign and for donors to "close their checkbooks" to the school over what he says is their failure to sufficiently condemn antisemitic events on campus prior to Hamas’ terror attack on Israel.

Rowan took issue with a Palestinian literature festival held on UPenn’s campus Sept. 22-24 and featured several alleged antisemitic speakers, writing: "It took less than two weeks to go from the Palestine Writes literary festival on the University of Pennsylvania’s campus to the barbaric slaughter and kidnapping of Israelis.

War makes reporting very hard, but we were talking upthread about asking for verification. The account that posted that also reposted Hamas propaganda about how nicely Hamas is treating the Israeli babies and small children they took hostage.

xp

Raymond, one can easily get lost in "a retaliation for an attack that was in retaliation for an attack that was in retaliation for an attack that was in retaliation for an attack."

I would love to live in a world that was less about "who started it?" And more about "who'll stop it," but that isn't the world we inhabit.