HBO's Succession - Season 2 and Beyond

its prob better to not watch it like a dvd recapper

idgi

do you mean, don't watch it like a serial and watch it more like an episode to episode sitcom?

tom and greg don't seem much worse adjusted/functional than the rest of the offspring so i don't really see the gatekeeping that would remove them from the story

That dissonance becomes part of the story in the last two seasons, especially for Tom

but there is more background that unfurls later in the series, certainly re: tom, that explains better his connection with shiv

xp

gotcha!

trying not to spoiler you but have faith because it is all very well done imo

Tom and Greg are both defined by the fact that neither really fits in with the Roys and they are trying to find a foothold, which is what draws them together.

It's not that they are any worse than the Roy kids, just that they seem more expendable, or at least, less deserving of loyalty or a place at the table. Good to know it pays off!

I don't think the show implies that Tom or Greg's claims are on an equal footing to the four siblings

sure, I just don't see why they'd be put in charge of anything important. unless the joke is that nothing is important.

I don't think it's a joke, just the reality that sometimes dumb and/or unqualified people get put in important positions because nepotism.

TBF, in a final season episode Roman mentions Tom is in fact good at his job.

Lol, I don't know if I would trust Roman's assessment!

post Oh, I assume that is the joke/satire, just imo Tom in particular is depicted as even more flailing and desperate and incompetent than the genetic kids. Like, we just saw the episode where he testifies in front of Congress. What did they expect would happen? Unless he was a strategic sacrifice, in which case I missed that detail.

of course, if the payoff is that Tom is really good at his job, or Greg for that matter, I can get with that, that's kind of funny.

No offense, but I think you're missing a bunch. Tom wasn't just a strategic sacrifice, he offered to be a strategic sacrifice, which the family gladly accepted.

feel like a lot of people are luke warm on this show through the first couple seasons, which is sad they couldve just been enjoying it the whole time instead of wanting things "to make sense" and so forth

xpost Pretty sure his name came up and, put on the spot, he agrees. Not that he was in a position to say no.

Bill was supposed to be the sacrifice, but Tom was unable to successfully shift the blame.

I should say, I think the show is fun. I'm just still not sure if I'm supposed to think of it as anything other than a sitcom. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it's just my personal consideration of how much I should invest in it.

it's a work of fictional satire and it is ok to suspend your disbelief rather than expect everything to make perfect sense 100% of the time

fair

it makes sense just not in the very pat way that serialized tv meant to be enjoyed while on your phone does

Tom's better at his job than any of the kids ever are in the show! They think their job is all of this financial posturing and molding the entire RoyCo portfolio and Tom's just a guy who runs a shitty cable news network. Which is really the core of the business, anyway

i don't think Tom is ever shown as being bad at his job as much as he's bad at the politicking and gladhanding (which leads to absolutely amazing cringe comedy moments.) he's a great character.

It's maybe a good separate conversation, which of these doofuses is good at their job, and what does good at their job even look like? That seems to be the/crux of the satire.

I think this show makes *emotional* sense start to finish which is more important to me than e.g. whether it actually conforms to whatever the statutes and customs about corporate board votes actually are

Good to hear! It's also definitely reassuring that it's only four seasons long. I like it when shows have an end point to the story in mind, helps them better capture and control those dynamics.

I also don't think the fact that it's hilariously funny makes it a satire

Hmm. So far I think I'd definitely categorize it as a satire.

Yeah it's a plot point that Tom offers to eat the shit. he doesn't initially think anything is even likely but gets more convinced something will, and no-one really cares.

I think the point is that Tom might not be good at HIS job, but he's very good at politics and playing the game.

Which in this particular story kinda *is* the job. It's not the success of the company that drives the Roy kids and those in their orbit, it's the accumulation of wealth and power and jockeying to be in the position to get more; the company is just a means to an end (not knowing the end of this story myself). It reminds me of Kirk in the Metallica documentary, who is chill and accommodating until it is suggested the band may want to stop with the guitar solos, which means less of him, at which point Kirk, who is all about the art and comity and just going with the flow, man, finally loses his temper and essentially makes a case not just for his own survival but for his necessity. He can check out at any time and be set for life, but he wants a seat at the table and the power that goes with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UYPpOYXYWc

There's a lot of moments in this show that remind me of "Some Kind of Monster," actually, lol.

It's not the success of the company that drives the Roy kids and those in their orbit, it's the accumulation of wealth and power and jockeying to be in the position to get more; the company is just a means to an end

but yeah like lagoon said this is all recapper brain type thinking. characters’ motivations will shift in a single episode, a single scene, it doesn’t always make sense even to them

I always felt like part of that was related to the strategic unpredictableness of Logan roy. He changes his mind all the time, shifts alliances, and everybody else around him is just trying to keep up but they don't do it in the same thought out manner that comes from years of being steeped in the culture, they're all amateurs trying to play the same game.

I get the sense, from what we've seen, that part of the satire is the inability or unwillingness for even those able to totally separate themselves from such a monster. In a lot of what we've seen, Shiv has as purportedly separate life or different inclinations ... until the family/family money is at stake. Logan's brother is swimming in disdain, but he's not (yet) gotten rid of those shares. Frank is treated like shit, but he keeps coming back. Cousin Greg has on occasion explicitly pointed out things we, the viewer, see/(should) feel, but his obsequious allegiance to Logan is clear. It's very Bunuel/Sartre in this regard; no one can leave the dinner party, hell is other people, etc.. Right now, Kendall may be the most curious/complicated of the characters, because Logan has actual leverage over him, but they're all pretty fucked up in service of the Big Dad.

It's not the success of the company that drives the Roy kids and those in their orbit, it's the accumulation of wealth and power and jockeying to be in the position to get more; the company is just a means to an end

for Tom and Greg yes but for the kids this is exactly backwards (though even that is a simplified take; at various times it appears Kendall actually wants to destroy Royco)

This is otm. In fact this might be the shows entire thesis.

Frank being an object of disdain is funny because Frank and his ilk actually have the line to shareholders and whoever else

basically, every old rando in the orbit could be ejected due to Roy idiocy but as long as they aren’t, they wield more power than the Roys. the Roys are basically only there for negotiations and fake chess, they don’t actually participate in business despite all the posturing

it’s why kendall is ultimately as inessential as connor. they just do figurehead bullshit and don’t have jobs

Started watching S4 a few weeks ago, stopped after the second episode for close to a month. Just didn't feel like resuming. Finally did...I don't know what the general reaction above was, but E3 felt like it went on forever. Didn't like it at all, and--maybe I'm as monstrous as these people--felt nothing.

Finished up. There were better episodes ahead--I thought the election-night episode was best--and the resolution was satisfactory, even if I didn't always understand the motivations that led up to it. The show seemed to connect with a lot of people more than it did with me. The obsequiousness of Tom and Greg and Hugo could be really funny. Kendell, Shiv, and Roman: found all three performances rather affected.

We finished S2, which ends of a good cliffhanger that I found both surprising and ... exciting? It's still slow going for us, but we like having the show in our back pockets to dip into when we don't have anything else to watch.

The most unbingeable show since Oz, the Roys are all so revolting I'm not sure I can watch more than one a week.

clearly i’m a monster, i can happily binge this show like it’s my goddamn job lol

A new woman joined my badminton club last week who looks eerily like Shiv.

tell her i say hi