Scorsese and DiCaprio back together again with 'Killers of the Flower Moon'.

As beautiful and powerful as you'd expect but does tend to reduce attempted genocide to an opportunity for Leo to do his moral dilemma face for an hour or two. If you thought Oppenheimer was problematic then hoo, boy...

Just saw Lily Gladstone is going to campaign for lead actress and not supporting, which good

Potentially stiffer competition, tho

I'd normally rush off and see this, but I'll probably hold off a couple of weeks for a friend who's on the road. Will make sure to avoid all reviews. Remain hopeful.

(And will also, as always, go in with an unreasonably high bar I expect it to meet.)

may I suggest that while you're waiting, you read the book. the basic story will be the same in book and film, but the depth of detail will be much greater in the book and the details accumulate to make a very overwhelming impression that spreads well beyond the confines of the basic story.

I thought I'd been nailed with another "It's the thread revive we all hoped for!"--close call.

chalk that other up to The Goodfellas Effect

I'm not a great reader of fiction--I've always got a couple of non-fiction books on the go--so I always give precedence to the film. I've occasionally followed up a film I liked by reading the novel (The Spy Who Came in from the Cold comes to mind--and I did think the novel was excellent), but not very often.

Well then you're in luck because Killers of the Flower Moon is nonfiction (and very good).

Didn't know that, thought it was historical fiction...Being Scorsese, I'm still going to give the film priority.

the process of turning the book into a script and a film will necessarily introduce various kinds of compression, elision, and other minor fictionalizations, but as you watch be aware that the murders, the murderers and their motives were all too real

That was my assumption: that the book was a fictionalization of real events. Reading up, I see it's straight reportage (and that there was an earlier novel based on the same events).

the book is great but the last third where the author inserts himself into the narrative--understandably so, as he helped solve some of the underlying crimes, i can't remember the exact details--really took wind out of the sails for me. up to then, it had been an excellent read

I'm invited to the press screening tomorrow night, but a 3:26 film on a Tuesday night when assignments are due at midnight is a burden too heavy to bear.

I was actually disappointed by the Grann book, most especially the way he chose to structure it as a whodunnit when the villain of the piece seemed pretty obvious almost right away (and looks even more obvious in the trailer for the Scorsese adaptation). I did like lots of the incidental details about various outlaws, bandits and ne'er-do-wells, and I hope the long run time allows Scorsese to keep some of that flavour.

Watching this tonight, thankfully basically blind and hopeful

Really, the best way to watch a movie.

saw this tonight, thought it was good but not great. I am not really someone who demands that films “center” certain perspectives, but I do think there was a certain incoherence to the point of view of the film: not nearly enough of the interior life of molly, and eventually as marty realizes he isn’t sure how to bring this out of her, the focus shifts to the internal conflict within earnest. which overall is fine — I’m not the biggest leo guy, but I think this is one of his better performances. de niro was also very good obv.

and while despite the 206 minute runtime the movie somehow did not drag…I still really feel as though a good 30 minutes or more could have been cut, leaving a still very good, still very long film

doing some quick skimming of some reviews — I’m glad I’m not the only person who thought of PHANTOM THREAD!

this might be an anti-cinema opinion but I couldn't help thinking it would have been better as a ten-hour series

Blind willie Johnson montage the highlight of the film. Really ugly watching the first 2/3’s. Made the one gag in the film (“can I…. Can I talk alone to this man for a moment?”) absolutely sparkle with life lol.

It was long, but justified. The better half who is not a movie person at all and groaned when I told her the length came out enjoying it so that’s as good an endorsement as any that it didn’t drag its heels

Thelma Schoonmaker is the real star of this movie, I mean she's always been Marty's secret weapon obv but what she did here seems like more of an achievement than anything she's ever done imo

and the ending, wow, don't remember the theatre gasping like that since like, that one scene in Caché in 2005

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/martin-scorsese-on-making-killers-of-the-flower-moon

really appreciated brody’s interview with scorsese here. two important bits: scorsese’s confirmation that the relationship between mollie and ernest was intended to be sincere (the horrific things he does to her….uh notwithstanding) — hence the PHANTOM THREAD vibes I was picking up on. also, apparently leo was originally planning on playing the FBI guy and it was his idea to play ernest

This was big and at times felt maybe too unwieldy for Scorsese but I thought it was good. The three central performers true MVPs. Some of the supporting performances (and Brendan Fraser's, sadly!) seemed way too amateurish or stilted. Gorgeous production design by Jack Fisk! And, yes, Thelma S. rocked this one as always.

Is Jesse Plemons one of the three centrals or supporting? I always like him.

I'd say supporting.

Acting was great all round, some of those leo faces in the final 1/3rd where just impressive physiognomic events! Love seeing an actor frown for 3+ hrs

The final engagement between Molly and Ernest is what my mind goes to the next morning. A rote, stereotypical kind, of scene this movie stayed away from to that point, but that is to the scenes benefit and I think Marty was able to put some truth into it that it wouldn't have got from a worse (or shorter!) movie that stressed it too much as a moment of immense meaning.

I guess another film this reminded me of was THE NEW WORLD, although I have to think a little more about why and whether that makes sense

and maybe not so much ‘reminded me of’ but led me to wonder what malick might have done with it. not that he necessarily would be next in line to tell this story

You gotta laugh that Scorscese is just making the exact same movie in different decades (in both senses). If this was not based on a true story it would be unbelievable that he's just doing Casino/The-Irishman/etc. in the 20's

There are a lot of differences tbf but yeah this is a Marty Crime Story. There was one particular 10 minute section (you probably know what I mean that was straight up Goodfellas). I thought it was good but not amazing and even though its based on a true story I felt it required a lot of big asks from the audience.

So many great faces in this movie though, Louis Cancelmi's weird rhomboid features, Brendan Fraser's outraged Stay Puftness, Tommy Schultz's cauliflower ears, Ty Mitchell's weatherbeaten dirt road of a face

didn’t really like fraser at all in this one tbh

Didn't really like him in the one that just won him an Oscar tbh

Made the one gag in the film (“can I…. Can I talk alone to this man for a moment?”) absolutely sparkle with life lol.

imho the best gag was (i forget the exact quotes) when the lawyer tells Louis Cancelmi "what you're asking me makes it sound like you plan to adopt your children and then murder them...?" and Cancelmi is like "well no, not if I cant inherit their money!"

not a leo fan but liked him in this, although it got tougher for me in the last third or so when he's given less & less to do other than just squint and make that one face that he always makes

See, that line came after the “speak to this man alone”, so the surprise of a gag in this ugly ugly movie had already been spoiled.

I wish he always had those teeth

Nothing to add other than I thought this as really great.

and the ending, wow, don't remember the theatre gasping like that since like, that one scene in Caché in 2005

― Murgatroid, Friday, October 20, 2023 8:06 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

I feel strange asking this, because I finished watching the movie an hour ago, but what are you referring to? What did people gasp at? Jack White trying to do a Native American accent?

I assume the radio play? i was wondering what was meant by that too

Amazing movie, and I’m convinced Brendan Fraser’s performance was modeled on wrestling manager Paul Heyman.

Saw this today. I'm in the verygood-not-great camp and the he's-made-this-movie-before camp. But it's very well made! I'm glad it exists.

My wife is the director of the native studies program at a university and they ended up buying out two theaters on opening night and inviting anyone from local communities to come for free.

The crowd I saw this with was like 90% indian representing some 20 different tribes, some of whom were absolutely old enough to relate the boarding school lament at the begging. The thing that stood out the most was when the owl showed up and there was an audible gasp from the crowd.

Jack White trying to do a Native American accent?

*frowns, checks Wikipedia* Oh THAT'S who he was playing. I was trying to place him! (But it was Isbell I was fucking racking my brains over, I was all "I KNOW THIS FUCKING FACE, FROM WHERE THOUGH." And who knew Pete Yorn could actually do something good or at least good enough.) Didn't recognize Sturgill Simpson at all and that's two movies in the course of four, five weeks now where I didn't realize that was him in a key role! Not a bad job in either.

Anyway, yes, I'm in the 'does feel of a piece with his work but it works' camp, happy to have seen it on the big screen. Posthumous kudos to Robbie Robertson, that was a sharp and well placed score too. Give Gladstone the Oscar and call it a day.

Jason Isbell was great in this

I'm relieved Scorsese and co-writer Eric Roth didn't focus on the Bureau of Investigation procedural stuff. THAT would've been tiresome.

not a leo fan but liked him in this, although it got tougher for me in the last third or so when he's given less & less to do other than just squint and make that one face that he always makes

― waste of compute (One Eye Open),

His crying scene in the last 25 minutes was, against every one of my expectations, the most convincing I've seen from a major American star in years. It felt earned.

armond unsurprisingly not a fan

I won't give him the click. Does he denounce Scorsese for surrendering to #woke by showing In-juns?

Close. For surrendering to #woke by hating America

I think that happens a lot with directors when the stakes feel lower - one of Scorsese's most enjoyable works over the past 20 years is a Hitchcock tribute he did for a commercial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjQrDn1IR0Q

One major element of Wolf of Wall Street is the visual subjectivity, which reflects how these characters have a warped view of life. It's partly what makes the last show so powerful and damning for me but Scorsese also has a lot of fun with that concept via the quaaludes gag.

Also to be clear, when I say "professional," I don't mean phoning it in - he never does that. He's always committed to doing his best, even when he has doubts - it's always going to look like a Scorsese picture. But The Departed does feel a bit cold to me. Funny, entertaining, but not a whole lot underneath the surface.

RE: "I think that happens a lot with directors when the stakes feel lower," I mean relax and have more fun.

* the last shot

if you watch Infernal Affairs, it doesn't feel like they were trying to transform the material so much as streamline it and adapt it to a Boston setting with Hollywood movie stars.

He didn't streamline it tho, he made it baggier — added 50 minutes and a whole layer of (tedious imo) Catholic framing to it.

Yeah, if his last couple films are any indication, his movies can often use a bit more streamlining (imo). And coincidence or no, some of my least favorite of his films are the ones that cost the most. I think I like him best when he's ambitious and scrappy and not self-consciously over-inflated.

ok which one of you replaced his bio with this on letterboxd

https://i.imgur.com/KzFcyv2.png

He didn't streamline it tho, he made it baggier — added 50 minutes and a whole layer of (tedious imo) Catholic framing to it.

Hah, yes he did! It's been too long since I saw either. But the Catholic framing, do you mean the sense of guilt? I remember that being in Infernal Affairs as well though it wasn't rooted in Catholicism. (Regardless, that part never made a strong impression either.)

Yeah, it was there in the original but rooted in personal loyalties. But Scorsese can't help letting Catholicism run all over everything (explicitly or otherwise).

It made logical sense when they transplanted the film to Boston - it's almost become a cliché at this point, so many Boston-based dramas I've seen over the past 20 years work the Catholic presence, whether it's Mystic River or (for obvious reasons) Spotlight.

I don't mind it. I like when artists' religion and politics bleed all over the place.

I mean, why else watch Scorsese? If I want amoral gangster shit I can watch a Warner Bros pic or Brian De Palma.

Very true. Honestly, it's hard to imagine his work without it, but if you somehow wrote that out of the scripts for, say, Mean Streets or Raging Bull, I don't think he'd ever make those films and I'm not sure there would be any real merit to them. Jake LaMotta truly does become nothing more than a cockroach, which is what the reluctant execs at UA initially believed when they were pitched the film.

Actually, LaMotta is a cockroach. The Age of Innocence, Silence, Killers of the Flower Moon >>>>>> Raging Bull.

LOL, we'll have to disagree, but I always thought that was Scorsese's best film because of what he finds in that story.

And also to add what I posted before, I say that as an agnostic - what makes Scorsese (or Leo McCarey or Paul Schrader among others for that matter) so compelling is a lot of what they explore through their faith is universal. The struggles their characters go through feel very honest, something anyone can recognize or experience.

Sure, the "Catholic stuff" is part of what makes his great stuff great. But in what should have been a trifle like The Departed, to me it felt like padding, like he had to find a way to make the story feel important enough for him or something.

(I don't like The Departed anyway, if it's not clear. It cracks me up that it was his Oscar film.)

Yeah, far from my favorite, but it was such a big success that it made Hugo possible, which again is one of my favorites from recent years. I think he said it allowed him to pass on some projects he would've considered before as well.

Hugo is the only Scorsese I havent watched!

I watched Hugo. It felt like Scorsese wanted very badly to make a magical kid's movie tapping into our sense of innocent wonder and he just didn't have the chops for it. It's way too heavy to get airborne.

Innocent wonder is like a Spielberg fantasy, I never got the impression Hugo was interested in those sort of illusions. The heart of it is about a very bitter and broken man, and the war played a huge role in that. It's still uplifting to me because of the way they find their way out of despair. I don't doubt that's heavy, but that's pretty much why it left a lasting impression.

Nice New Yorker interview with LG

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-interview/lily-gladstone-is-holding-the-door-open?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_020424&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&utm_term=tny_daily_digest&bxid=5be9da642ddf9c72dc27c25d&cndid=29476922&hasha=f0ef51a738774f8c6d037c5c6beb7573&hashb=7cfed5b1cbcbc6a71fea3c2fc2bc754ee2661f52&hashc=fdd5c8d249d863be98861f55628588b242a4ca01384346986428715bbfdd44db&esrc=CDS_OP

Lily Gladstone honored by the Blackfeet tribe in Montana:

Today the Blackfeet Nation celebrated Lily Gladstone Day. Lily made history as the first Indigenous person to be nominated for an Academy Award and to win a Golden Globe and Screen Actors Guild award for Best Actress in “Killers of the Flower Moon.” Her achievements are a beacon… pic.twitter.com/fwJCqH2U76

— Ryan Busse (@ryandbusse) March 26, 2024

The poster, Ryan Busse, is running for governor against Greg "human garbage" Gianforte this year.