Post a controversial music opinion

i was giving those early years the benefit of the doubt because i figured their were some choice music hall sides or a really cracking version of "pretty polly" out there in the u.k.
not to mention some sweet welsh-language numbers. actually i'm willing to extend it to 1926. just in case harry lauder doesn't make the cut by 1920.

x-post

there has got to be lots of really cool albums of uk dudes singing old sailor songs solo and stuff between 1920 and 1964

lol scott even the Flux album we both love is 1987 <3

houdini said to thread

https://www.discogs.com/master/579266-Sam-Larner-Now-Is-The-Time-For-Fishing

All 21st century Aphex Twin is mid at best

my controversial opinion is the word 'mid' is terrible

a couple of major problems I have with this, let's start with the easier one, please tell me five good records made in the UK between 1900 and 1920?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8GCTqB0oY0

Not saying that's the best but I'm sure there was a lot of great music hall stuff released pre-1920.

Lauder does make the cut by 1920 - he recorded most of his famous numbers like "Roamin' in the Gloamin'" and "I Love a Lassie" in the 1910s.
I wish I knew more pre-1920 UK music; I'm a big Welsh music enthusiast but I don't really know about any Welsh-language records from then.

putting this forward as an example of pre-1920 music hall records, they exist in a not-quite-reachable era imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU3uZRGDHEc

Formby Sr, Vesta Victoria, Lauder and a few others are worth checking out, but as soon as WWI starts, the London record business stops. The best music hall records are from the 20s/30s, along with some good novelty records and some trad jazz dance bands. Then WWII kind of kills all of that. The 1950s have some great Calypso records made in the UK, then the end of the 50s has some great skiffle records and of course the work of Joe Meek.

Obvs not going to list all the great house/streetsoul/jungle/trip-hop/drum&bass/etc. records from '85 and beyond because you already know this.

pre-1920s music of any variety barring tin pan alley and brass bands is very poorly preserved indeed, unfortunately.

xp to say nothing of 'Giant Steps' and 'Boomania'

agree w/Nashwan

Out of interest what are some early (pre-60s) UK calypso records? I know of the odd appropriation here and there (Tommy Steele's Water, Water and Shirley Bassey's take on the Banana Boat Song). Adjacent to that, I'm aware of Edric Connor's Songs from Jamaica being a British production (although I haven't heard it and I'm guessing it's more mento?)

Edric did do this a bit later, but I don't know of any full UK calypso LPs that early.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGT79BtQcrk

Not 50s (1964) but I have to mention Ronnie Hilton's Leeds United Calypso to balance that out

(The first calypso song I ever knew, everyone)

this compilation and its sequels is a good place to start

https://honestjonsrecords.bandcamp.com/album/london-is-the-place-for-me-trinidadian-calypso-in-london-1950-1956

sorry to backtrack here, but my controp is that every aphex twin song is his worst song. fucking dud.

Nice to see you again, Austin! :)

xps Thanks, I'll have to investigate further

unrelated (other than to rightly imply I disagree with the takes here) but I saw afx on Saturday and it's the most intense show I've ever seen. Up there with the best.

I certainly concede he may still be good live

Saw him in 2003 headlining over Orbital and Drum Club, and had to leave because he was doing my head in. God, what a wuss!

as far as music from the united kingdom goes, you only need to listen to records made from 1900 to 1920 or records made from 1964 to 1984. you can safely ignore the rest.

― scott seward

wait, what? what about louisa killen's "northumbrian garland" from 1962? (i didn't know she was trans before looking her up for this post... you go lou!)

notorious is by far the best duranismo. the only slight doubt is if it’s controversial.

Dr. Dre's peak as a producer is not The Chronic but rather the post-Straight Outta Compton 89-91 period (The D.O.C., Above the Law, 100 Miles, N4L)

notorious is by far the best duranismo. the only slight doubt is if it’s controversial.

― you need magical thinking ay my name is david blaine (Hunt3r)

Second best album, yah

Big Thing is good and inspired album

Dr. Dre's peak as a producer is not The Chronic but rather the post-Straight Outta Compton 89-91 period (The D.O.C., Above the Law, 100 Miles, N4L)

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, September 11, 2023 4:30 PM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Doggystyle imho

jeff lynne's peak is 1967-1971. those idle race albums are wonderful.

Not controversial with me!

the best Move albums are the ones without him though.

The Move were better before he joined. I agree with that too.

i know this has been touched on by other folks here but i'm ready to plant my flag: nina simone is overrated.

I rate her as "the finest musician of the 20th century", so if you only rate her 2nd or 3rd that's your right I guess

I know it's not a contest but Ella > Nina > Billie

if you only rate her 2nd or 3rd

not even top 50 tbh

The Royal House of Hangover (Ye Mad Puffin) at 8:43 22 Oct 23

I know it's not a contest but Ella > Nina > Billie

CAAL you have definitely understood the assignment of the thread!

Fitzgerald at her best is just so freaking smooth, and can go great places. The duets with Armstrong on Cole Porter material may not be your thing but I will never not love them.

Scat, generally, is not my thing but I have no quarrel with those who enjoy that aspect of her career.

Nina Simone is a virtuoso and a genius and a hero; her writing and activism are essential. That said, there is really almost no time at which I just want to put on a Nina Simone record, sorry. I am glad she existed but I just don't want to listen to her frequently. It isn't what I want as a pleasurable voluntarily leisure activity.

given those three as choices, if i had to i would rate the same way as YMP.

then again, the live Ella and Duke records are among my favorite live records ever made so i am certainly biased.

i have a friend who is a soul and r&b nerd, used to DJ out a lot, and his complaint about Nina was that she had become the safe/accessible option for white folks to the detriment of the profiles of much better singers. tbh, i can kind of see his point! we had a long talk about it once because i didn’t get it.

Table and I just said opposite things and it's kinda fun that both can be true.

I am a white person and I don't think I think of Nina Simone as "safe/accessible." In fact she's challenging, in a good way! That's what I like about her! I just don't usually want her music washing over my ears. I respect and admire Nina Simone more than I want to listen to her.

yeah, i rarely want to listen to Nina but that’s because i did so much for many years.

I'm with you YMP. I'm so incredibly sick of hearing Feeling Good that I can't listen to it anymore.

Nina Simone is a virtuoso and a genius and a hero; her writing and activism are essential. That said, there is really almost no time at which I just want to put on a Nina Simone record, sorry. I am glad she existed but I just don't want to listen to her frequently. It isn't what I want as a pleasurable voluntarily leisure activity.

This is a very good encapsulation of my feelings. I am 100% opposed to jazz singers who sing jazz standards; don't need to hear that stuff ever, by anyone. And scat singing...well, it's called scat for a reason. If I'm in the mood for angry jazz vocalists who write their own material, I tend to go Abbey Lincoln > Jeanne Lee > Linda Sharrock > Nina Simone.

abbey lincoln and jeanne lee do standards pretty great too

nina simone is a different kind of thing for the most part but she's not overrated at all

ella is underrated in the way mozart is underrated - I won't elaborate

hey who here doesn’t like opera