under the one world socialist government vegans will have extra points left over to spend on state approved luxuries thereby eventually becoming the new ruling class
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:13 (nine months ago) link
I never know how to rate a thing - how do I rate something that seems flawless but doesn't move me much versus something I love that has very obvious flaws?
I don't like the aggregators since they pull from a such a limited pool (professional critics on the one hand, internet nerds who watch that youtube guy on the other) and their biases when aggregated turn into a very boring and oppressive consensus
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:19 (nine months ago) link
which is self reinforcing since everyone takes them seriously for some reason
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:21 (nine months ago) link
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, August 9, 2023 12:13 PM bookmarkflaglink
wow that you managed to work this even into a thread about music reviews
― linoleum gallagher (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:25 (nine months ago) link
don't you know that everything is political
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:31 (nine months ago) link
https://media.pitchfork.com/photos/5e0e0f17b7c76f0009ccb48a/2:1/w_1600,c_limit/Moby.jpg
onethread
― hardcore technician gimmicks are also another popular choice f (President Keyes), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 16:33 (nine months ago) link
the only time i rate things is movies on letterboxd. i don’t think about it too much and just go with my gut. i tend to rate everything pretty highly and give stuff 5 stars all the time (often to the shock and dismay of my gf who is far stingier)
― flopson, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 17:30 (nine months ago) link
I rate but eventually calm down
― But his face would not turn into hot Kirby (Evan), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 17:40 (nine months ago) link
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, August 9, 2023 11:19 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
there's a lotta truth to this but I think if you compare the RYM charts from 10 years ago to the charts now, they're definitely getting more diverse and esoteric
I think in both cases the main issue is these people have to score the album very quickly. when I wrote for The Quietus I'd have to turn in reviews sometimes before the album even came out. there's a lot of hyped up RYM stuff that'll have 3000 ratings within a year but 2500 of them will come within the first 2 weeks. idk I don't think that's enough time to really evaluate music, so many of my favorite albums were things I was lukewarm on at first, while I can think of a number of albums I was really excited about on release that I've cooled on since. I kinda miss those old review sites like Mark Prindle and George Starostin where they're like "I've been listening to these guys for 15 years", because even if you disagree with everything they write you at least know they've been thinking about it for a while.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 17:51 (nine months ago) link
A rating is always more a time capsule of how you feel about a particular work on a particular day but then, so is a review.
I really enjoy it when I rewatch a film and decide to change my rating on letterboxd, gives me the illusion that I am still capable of growth and change. I don't use RYM but you could do that too.
Left tbf there's a very easy way to access an aggregate that doesn't have the limited pool you mention - it's the charts.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 19:18 (nine months ago) link
having to choose between the received prejudices of a cultural elite and the heartless whims of the market, the story of my life
I like that concept of a review but it isn't how our grading and canonisation obsessed culture tends to receive them and the aggregators iron any of that out anyway
I still use them because I need some sort of filter but there's a lot you have to correct for and I wish they were treated less respectfully in general
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 21:39 (nine months ago) link
If we're going to start bringing RYM and Scaruffi and Prindle into ILX conversations, you might as well just go full 4chan and post some pics of your "goon cave"
― sean paul akerman (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 22:11 (nine months ago) link
I'll defer to your expertise on the matter.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 22:16 (nine months ago) link
I come to ilx to avoid discussions of Scaruffi and Prindle!
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 22:52 (nine months ago) link
(Not from 4chan but from musicbook, group chats, places where these people apparently matter)
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 22:55 (nine months ago) link
You folks are intrepid; I've never found good music discussion anywhere online but here.
― Nonhuman biologics enthusiast (morrisp), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 23:03 (nine months ago) link
well quite
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 9 August 2023 23:05 (nine months ago) link
Rating things is lame. Zero stars.
― Chevy Chase drumming mystery (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 9 August 2023 23:45 (nine months ago) link
if it’s an album I love it gets 5 starsI can’t really parse much meaningful/interesting difference between 3 and 4 stars, let alone 100 different gradations of rating
― brimstead, Thursday, 10 August 2023 00:36 (nine months ago) link
Once every couple of years I remember Prindle exists and go look at an artist there. It’s sort of a time capsule of a more innocent Internet. The most recent one I looked up was PJ Harvey and he hated her, that was a shock - the first and third albums are almost universally praised AFAICT.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 10 August 2023 05:00 (nine months ago) link
Did Buddyhead do reviews? Feel like I got them confused with Pitchfork in the early days.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 10 August 2023 05:01 (nine months ago) link
Prindle was a hugely helpful resource for me when I was getting into The Fall (20+ years back). Don’t think I explored his thoughts on other artists too much… funny guy though
― Nonhuman biologics enthusiast (morrisp), Thursday, 10 August 2023 05:08 (nine months ago) link
that guy really hated women
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Thursday, 10 August 2023 07:42 (nine months ago) link
A year or so ago I was instructed - not asked - by a friend in a gc to stop hating on Prindle. It understandably wasn't long before the chat died, its cosiness slowly evaporated. But it makes me hate Prindle even more.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 10 August 2023 07:46 (nine months ago) link
i was going to say that disliking PJ Harvey doesn't make you a woman-hater (at least for my sake i hope not, although i do have my gf's support on this) but i went to his review page and scanned through it for pages dedicated to female artists and on first pass found Joni Mitchell and Pink, both of whom he dislikes as well, so uh, does kinda seem that way, annoyingly, cos i enjoy quite a few of his reviews
― imago, Thursday, 10 August 2023 08:59 (nine months ago) link
on the flipside he actually really loves a whole bunch of PJ Harvey's music, and Madonna's singles, even if he expresses himself rather um unfortunately when he doesn't. dearie me
― imago, Thursday, 10 August 2023 10:17 (nine months ago) link
some of my best friends are PJ Harvey albums
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 August 2023 10:19 (nine months ago) link
xxxpost - milo my memory is that buddyhead has reviews for a while at least, but they were pretty short capsule punk zine style
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 August 2023 11:45 (nine months ago) link
I'd never heard of prindle before this thread, but I looked at his Tori Amos intro and Left is otm. indefensible horseshit
― rob, Thursday, 10 August 2023 13:56 (nine months ago) link
to be fair here Prindle himself now says he's embarrassed by most of his old reviews, finds them too needlessly edgy and confrontational, also admits he wrote a lot of them drunk. idk I think he's a good dude who went through some pretty rough times, luckily he's sober and a lot more levelheaded now. I don't think he'd defend his site more than any of us would, though I do still give it credit for introducing me to loads of good shit back in the day
― frogbs, Thursday, 10 August 2023 14:28 (nine months ago) link
Maybe he could delete the stuff he says he is embarrassed about
― Chevy Chase drumming mystery (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 10 August 2023 14:40 (nine months ago) link
it's news to me that alcohol causes misogyny
like I said, I don't know anything about this guy. but if I had self-published textbook misogynistic bullshit years ago, I'd probably remove it from the public internet lest someone who doesn't know anything about me read it and logically conclude I'm a textbook misogynist. obviously on some level he wants to preserve his legacy
― rob, Thursday, 10 August 2023 14:40 (nine months ago) link
I liked this line in the review of the new PIL album:
End of World is hellishly inconsistent, its mid section adrift in ’80s funk-rock sheen, like INXS being harassed by an angry wasp.
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 August 2023 15:29 (nine months ago) link
no but alcohol def causes you to turn into an edgelord trying to get a rise outta people sometimes
tbh I don't know why he left that stuff up, I think at some point he wrote an explanation like "I'm embarrassed by it but don't wanna run away from who I was", most likely the reason is there are hundreds of pages on that website and he doesn't feel like crawling through them all. I mean there's all sorts of shit from 2003 internet guys who def know better now that's still up
― frogbs, Thursday, 10 August 2023 15:30 (nine months ago) link
I remember thinking Prindle was really gross even at the time, but I also happy in those early years to find anyone writing about some of the obscure artists he covered.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 10 August 2023 15:33 (nine months ago) link
I like this line from that same review:
Lydon has always sung because he has to; his singular voice couples acute distress with an almost physical sense of relief.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 August 2023 15:34 (nine months ago) link
but anyway the point of this isn't to defend Prindle's website but rather the idea that it's kind of useful to be able to follow *one* critic who writes about a bunch of albums sometimes and get a feel for how they think and what they like because I, personally, have discovered a lot of great music that way. some of those guys knew a ton about prog for instance and when they gave high marks to something in that area you knew it was good. compare to Pitchfork/Rolling Stone today, as much as I applaud their efforts to include stuff from a diverse set of genres that appeal to a diverse set of fanbases I also think this approach can lead to lists which appeal to basically no specific person
― frogbs, Thursday, 10 August 2023 15:34 (nine months ago) link
Do some of y'all not have posts on this exact website that you're not embarrassed about from 2004? Including sexist ones?
Not excusing bad behavior, but ILX's own archives show behavior as bad or worse, even from those who still post here, and nobody (besides milo) is chasing anybody around with gotcha quotes from 17 years ago.
― linoleum gallagher (Neanderthal), Thursday, 10 August 2023 15:41 (nine months ago) link
Shit, cat.
― hardcore technician gimmicks are also another popular choice f (President Keyes), Thursday, 10 August 2023 15:43 (nine months ago) link
re: ratings, I like Alfred's categories
― Indexed, Thursday, 10 August 2023 15:45 (nine months ago) link
xpilxors can't delete ilx posts though. idk, there's no way to genuinely respond to that Neando without sounding like a smug prick, but fwiw I do not relate to "I used to post heinous shit on the internet, it was the style at the time," and I imagine some or even many ilxors feel the same. like it's not inconceivable that some people weren't sexist in 2004, right? I'm not saying you should feel terrible about it right now and we can't account for how we grew up (I definitely said some heinous shit pre-internet when I was a kid), but I guess I'm wary of implying these things are normal or phases one naturally goes through
I suppose I'm lucky to have been fairly self-conscious & anxious for most of my internet posting life. I'd agonize over posting a blog comment or w/e, lurked for years here before posting, etc. I know there's stuff I've posted on ilx that I'd find embarrassing now, and I can recall specific posts that received deserved pushback for a variety of reasons, but nothing remotely like that Tori Amos intro (which I'm not going to post, it's gross, but maybe read it if you're finding my response too pious). I also think there's a big social dynamic difference between posting reviews and engaging in a forum discussion
― rob, Thursday, 10 August 2023 15:58 (nine months ago) link
maybe to get back on thread track: I think it's good pitchfork deleted their egregiously racist reviews from the early 00s
― rob, Thursday, 10 August 2023 16:00 (nine months ago) link
: ratings, I like Alfred's categories
― Indexed, Thursday, August 10, 2023 11:45 AM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglinl
That's the stuff.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 August 2023 16:06 (nine months ago) link
xpost - yeah alfred that was great, one of the better reviews i've read for a while i thought
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 August 2023 16:08 (nine months ago) link
could you re-post Alfred?
― rob, Thursday, 10 August 2023 16:10 (nine months ago) link
Wait -- I'm confused.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 August 2023 16:11 (nine months ago) link
I think I'm the one confused! what are Indexed and ums talking about?
― rob, Thursday, 10 August 2023 16:14 (nine months ago) link
Your point was sound, solid.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 August 2023 16:18 (nine months ago) link
oh sorry we were talking about this PIL review
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/public-image-ltd-end-of-world/
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 10 August 2023 16:20 (nine months ago) link
Oh! I agree
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 10 August 2023 16:21 (nine months ago) link