shohei ohtani alert

xp he got knocked around by the Red Sox in his last game too

The Angels intentionally walked Matt Olson on his next AB after his lone HR (and lone run) for the Braves.

xp Yeah, he's a cause for concern. He seems to like to work under pressure, i.e., with multiple runners on base.

the angels line up was also in an especially dark place after trout injury's and before some of these trades. the guys hitting directly behind him in that blue jays series (moniak, ward, moustakas) have to be just about the least intimidating 3-4-5 in baseball

Do international walks count towards obp

Depends. If it happens in the States or in Canada, yes. In Belgium, Italy, and South Korea, no.

Does he actually cos the game I watched him pitch he walked in a bases-loaded run in the bottom of the 1st and it didn’t get better after that 😬

I didn't say it was a successful strategy lol

Just that he seems to like it, and when it works he looks brilliant.

It’s certainly interesting I guess, I’m definitely an I can’t look person when you’ve got a guy you know has control issues trying to get out of a jam. Will they pop out, will he throw wild and let in two runs? All part of the fun!

I can't look away

One thing I hadn't picked up on till something I read a few days ago was that he's within striking range of a Triple Crown--15 points behind Diaz in average, six RBI behind Garcia, HR locked up. That's a lot of BA to make up in 45 games, but could happen. Corey Seager's shortened season is in the mix too.

Matt Olson is now tied with Ohtani for HRs this season.

I think I watch a lot of baseball and then I see that and think, “wait, I didn’t even know Matt Olsen had hit more than 20 yet”

Olson's yr new HR leader. Pick it up, Shohei!

Braves are right around the pace of the Twins' team record from a couple of years ago.

Olson is up to 43 HRs, two ahead of Ohtani. He hit a 455 foot monster last night at Citi, really impressive.

44th HR, left today's game in the second inning with "arm fatigue."

He’s been playing injured and pushing himself for a while. Maybe his fourth early exit in the past month?

Could he be done pitching this year? 13 (!) days rest and gets pulled after facing 5 batters. Angels playoff adds are at 0.2%

His 4SFB was only hitting 92mph in the 2nd inning (-8%), again after 13 days rest. He normally hits 92mph with his splitter which was sitting mid-80s today.

Oh that is really fucking bad. He needs to go on the IL but…You know.

They're not even close to the WC anymore--10 games out. And if they were to just have him DH for the rest of the year, it wouldn't even cost him the MVP.

Torn UCL, he's done pitching.

Ah, that's really too bad. I don't know physiology particularly well--I hope he can stay in there as DH.

bryce harper DH’d for the phillies last year on a torn UCL and was DHing for them this year post-surgery before he was cleared to return to the field. so it can be done. the issue is that if it does require surgery ohtani is better off not wasting a month playing out the string for a terrible team

https://undertheknife.substack.com/p/utk-flash-ohtani-elbow-trout-il

Holy shit. He’s already had Tommy John as well.

He’s really been pushing this season. I love Ohtani, but I wondered how he could keep doing these things, but it turns out, he was just running himself into the ground.

tbf all sorts of players run into UCL issues, even normal human players. There is something about pitchers, though. Very hard to keep them healthy.

One month before hitting free agency as well... this injury may cost him well over $100M.

It's really strange that the Angels would let him play in the second game of a double-header after he was removed from the mound in the first. There's no diagnosis at that point--could be anything.

Yeah they have been handling the whole thing very strangely. They just announced Trout is going back on the IL. CJ Wilson was posting about the club’s historical medical issues:

there was no breakfast served at spring training until 2nd week of ST in 2012, and no weight room until 2013. Coming from Texas where fitness was 100% expected, it was shocking how lazy they expected the players to be

— C.J. Wilson (@str8edgeracer) August 24, 2023

It's really strange that the Angels would let him play in the second game of a double-header after he was removed from the mound in the first. There's no diagnosis at that point--could be anything.

― clemenza, Thursday, August 24, 2023 11:06 AM (twenty-one minutes ago)

i probably would've just sat him but i don't think it's that strange. we know you can hit even on a torn UCL.

But my assumption is that the diagnosis was made after the second game, and that at that point they don't know for sure what it is beyond "arm fatigue." And even if they did know, I personally wouldn't put him out there, especially in an essentially meaningless game. If nothing else, he wouldn't mentally be in the right frame of mind knowing he won't pitch again.

The angels are basically the west coast Mets, just a badly run organization Plus loads of bad luck. Generational talents wasted, and increasingly injured and unable to contribute down the stretch.

It's a damn shame, such a great season for ohtani. If he's able to keep hitting the way he has the rest of the way that'll be a decent consolation prize I suppose.

even if he doesn't play at all (hitting/pitching), he'd probably still win MVP, too, but yeah, such a bummer to see him get injured. pitchers will break your heart!

Yeah I don’t think they were ignorant (xps to clemenza), he has been dealing with this fatigue all month and for a while now. I didn’t realise till Steve Shasta said that he hadn’t started in twelve days!

I know I shouldn't be giving it a second thought, that there's a lot more at stake here, but I have been thinking about MVP. If he keeps DH'ing, he'll still win unanimously, I'm sure. If he doesn't, even though I could see a handful of writers dropping him to #2, he still should win easily. No one's even close right now in bWAR, and of the three guys within four games, Seager has also missed significant time, Seager and Semien play for the same team, and the third is Wander Franco. There's also precedent in Josh Hamilton in 2010, who didn't play between Sept. 4 and Oct. 1.

Josh hamilton, another member of the cursed group for the Angels

Ohtani 2023 will go down as a Grand Experiment but if he ever decides back to pitch again (after 2 TJ's) he'll be like Jake deGrom or Chris Sale or Clayton Kershaw... glimmers of greatness between long IL residences. Not sure if whomever he lands with in 2024+ will want to risk that.

i think he's likely to land with one of the owners with bottomless pockets, and they will want to risk it because ohtani the 2-way thing is the key to his legend (and merchandise/PR/attendance). DH-only ohtani is still awesome but it's just different

kinda harsh on Kershaw imo - he has 416 starts, that's 4th among active pitchers, and like 200 more than Sale or deGrom have (257 and 215)

Kershaw is the last of those types of workhorses though IMO? He and Verlander are the freaks, not the other guys. Pitchers are throwing harder, throwing more strikes, and getting Tommy John more regularly. I was looking at the all time strikeouts per nine leaderboard (min 1000 IP), look how many of the guys on it are current pitchers!

https://i.postimg.cc/NFDM0FSH/IMG-8246.jpg

the thing i'd keep in mind is that contract he has been building up to this offseason is predicated on him being a two way player. he'd still get a giant deal, prob the biggest in the game, if he was going to just be a hitter, but the eye-popping american sports record setting contract that was certainly coming requires him to be valued as a two way player. so my guess is that his people will be in no rush to say "yeah it's best if he never pitches again." even if, realistically speaking, that's where this is inevitably headed

personally i think he's too good of a pitcher to just never pitch again -- especially if he was on a team that genuinely had a chance to win the world series he'd be very valuable in a playoff setting. i could see a team coming up w/ a plan to get him enough starts in the regular season to stay sharp but not really pushing him as a SP until the stretch run/playoffs. or just converting him to a lights out 2 inning reliever.

I wonder if he might not sign a deal with an early opt-out - sign a big deal as a hitter, if he shows he can pitch again he opts out and signs a humongous deal as both?

On that photo gallery of strikeout leaders, I think the chronological divide between Koufax/Ryan and everybody else is two decades measured by debut--is Randy Johnson the third on that timeline?

Ah I see y'all are being a bit optimistic with Shohei's pitching future imho.

Which one of you googlers can tell me who has compiled the most WAR *after* two Tommy Johns?

Yeah, full page for reference is here: https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/strikeouts_per_nine_career.shtml

Was just looking at Ohtani’s baseball savant page and there’s a very noticeable uptick in the % of breaking pitches he throws, wonder if that had an effect.

Ok here's the full list I have:

Pitcher - date of 2nd TJ
Nathan Eovaldi - 2016
Jameson Taillon - 2019
Daniel Hudson - 2013
Jason Isringhausen - 2008
Chris Capuano - 2008
Joakim Soria - 2012

In recovery from 2nd TJ:
Hyun-Jin Ryu
Walker Buehler

Was just going to post this--maybe your list is gleaned from the same source:

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/padres/story/2020-11-17/padres-second-tommy-john-surgery-mike-clevinger-nathan-eovaldi

Whoops, missed Clev. Ok, here's the "2nd TJ success stories" quick & dirty table:

Post-2nd TJ bWAR/fWAR:

Nathan Eovaldi - 12.0/12.5/ = AVG: 2.0/2.1
Jameson Taillon - 3.0/5.4 = AVG 1.0/1.8
Daniel Hudson - /4.5 = AVG /0.5
Jason Isringhausen - 1.8/-0.6 = AVG 0.2/-0.3
Chris Capuano - 2.6/6.6 = AVG 0.3/0.9
Joakim Soria - 5.8/7.6 = AVG 0.4/0.8