Post a controversial music opinion

I mean I’d argue that Janet Jackson isn’t that hot with the kids nowadays either but fuck them kids.

Michael Jackson was an artist of his time (early 70s to late 80s — a pretty long run) whose cultural relevance has almost entirely faded, more due to the rise of hip-hop than the allegations against him. But he doesn't mean shit to kids.

― but also fuck you (unperson),

This is 100% untrue. My students know "Beat It," "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough," and a few of the other monster hits. He has NOT gone away.

However, Janet Jackson is completely lost to time.

Yeah i feel like MJ's relevance peaked relatively recently, he seems like an important archetype for different kinds of pop artists. Justin Bieber, Justin Timberlake, The Weeknd, etc. Even Ariana Grande in a sense.

My 8th grade history teacher used to treat us to selections from Velvet Rope in his piercing falsetto, even that didn't ruin it for me.

He said it was too mature an album for kids to like it, maybe he was onto something.

and MJ's all over terrestrial radio. I'm not suggesting the kids listen to radio, but he's waaaaaay more present than Janet Jackson.

I don’t think it’s controversial that Michael Jackson has more cultural relevance than Janet. It was true 30 years ago and it’s still true today. This is like comparing The Beatles vs The Beach Boys

MJ's trajectory might actually be closer to the BB's by every measure other than scale.

My controversial opinion, for this Taylor Swift era we are living in, is that Reputation is her second-best album. (I think I’ve said as much on here elsewhere in the past)

Janet Jackson is completely lost to time.

(Cries in Tito)

I saw Sister Double Happiness slotted between Hole and Nirvana and they were the best band of the night.

MJ still feels plenty relevant to me, moreso than pretty much any other of the megastars of that era. if nothing else it sure feels like Thriller is still the blueprint for a lot of big pop albums lately

https://i.imgur.com/MU26E0c.jpg

ContOp: Eternal - Breathe EP (esp the title song) >>>>>>> any Slowdive recording

I would certainly rather have seen Sister Double Happiness than Nirvana or Hole. Their major label album, Heart and Mind, was one of the most overlooked records of 1991.

janet > michael is a very easy argument to make except re: success, cultural legacy etc. but of course michael's legacy is a fair bit more mixed these days

janet's run from control to all for you is something pretty much no other major pop act (maybe only prince?) can compete with. she's still cited as an influence regularly enough, just it's rare for anyone to be obviously imitating her in the way that say, the weeknd or timberlake have with mj.

^ Missy, imo

That is, Missy can compete (and supersedes both of the Jacksons, imo!)

I was mostly keeping it in the family with the kurt/courtney michael/janet comparison.

There’s probably thousands of artists that saw massive success and cultural legacy with 3/4+ great album runs as good if not better than the jackson’s.

Sister Double Happiness are great and deserved platinum status

NOT CONTROVERSIAL

"were" great I guess

Also Prince’s 80’s run is perhaps the best album run of all time but that’s hardly controversial.

There’s probably thousands of artists that saw massive success and cultural legacy with 3/4+ great album runs as good if not better than the jackson’s.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, July 26, 2023 7:11 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Thousands ? Now, that's controversial.

Neil Peart ruined Rush.

Rush ruined Neil Peart.

cool that we have a thread equivalent of the gig bathroom wall

Janet's Unbreakable is wonderful.

Just wanted to add that my 11-year old son is a Michael Jackson fan. So he still seems to have some currency with the youth.

cool that we have a thread equivalent of the gig bathroom wall

― imago, Wednesday, July 26, 2023 5:49 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Future posts must be submitted in the "[x artist] roolz [x artist] droolz" format

Thousands ? Now, that's controversial.

― Nabozo

Lol ok, if it’s strictly pop remove a zero: Hundreds. There must be at least 100 pop artists with 3 good albums in a run.

What is the parameter though? Is Missy pop or hip hop? What about the Beatles or the Beach Boys?

Michael Jackson is by far and away the most popular "heritage" act with my younger (18-25) dancers. I don't play anything of his stuff post-Thriller bcz REASONS, so his biggest 10 tracks are, in descending order: Billie Jean, Thriller, Don't Stop TYGE, I Want You Back, Blame It On The Boogie, Rock With You, Shake Your Body (DTTG), Wanna Be Startin Somethin, ABC, Off The Wall. (I've never played Beat It, although I probably should. And I've never played Can You Feel It, because I don't care for it much.)

You can't feel it?

lol

i feel like the janet > michael argument is harder to make if you factor in the classic jackson five singles

Sadly, the only Janet singles that work with my crowd are "Together Again" and the CJ Mackintosh remix of "The Best Things In Life Are Free". You'd have thought that at least "When I Think Of You" and "All For You" would have been fine, but nah.

i feel like the jam/lewis and new jack swing/riley type of production feels kind of archaic now

(cue Fairlight orchestra stab)

Exactly this. None of it lands for me at all.

that sound will be back in...3 years. mark my words. and janet will get a year-long victory parade of 40th anniversary control hall of fame grammy beyonce tributes and a world tour with kate bush.

A&M should have given the publicity push to Rosie Vela's Zazu in 1986 that Control received instead.

"archaic" is description, not criticism, though. All art sounds archaic a minute from now.

oh yeah then why does this danny tenaglia dance set from 1999 that i'm listening to right now sound like it could have been made YESTERDAY in romania?

i disagree though. all art does not sound archaic a minute from now. not that it matters. to me.

Calling something "dated" is a pet peeve.

i didn't mean it as a criticism necessarily, i like a lot of that stuff

i just have a sense that pneumatic pump thing might hit people the wrong way right now

whereas i don't think "beat it" has ever not sounded amazing to me, or anyone....man those records sound like a million bucks

I'm not picking on you, ums. It's possible to dislike Janet's mid '80s stuff because you don't like the way the programmed drums sound -- I can't stand the Steve Stevens solo on MJ's "Dirty Diana! But they're not bad because they're dated.

"Dated" is just an easy way to say "sounds both old and bad".

I think “dated” is by definition pejorative

It strongly implies “out of fashion”, whereas “timeless” (it could have been made today/its sound is still in fashion) or “classic” (it evokes positive associations of a specific era) do not

i think all music can sound dated or not depending on the time, how it strikes you....also like i dunno what's more dated sounding than the byrds, which i was just listening to and loving, you practically see super 8 home movies on command when you hear it

i could totally see a new jack swing revival, everything comes back around, but i think it's a little bit, how to put it...four on the four pumping...maybe for kids who were raised on post-atlanta trap stuff with super hi hat and kick/snare syncopation with more gauzy textures over the time like post metro boomin stuff or whatever (generalizing here) like an extreme example would be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC5GqbCtxbM

vs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avFq9errZCk

I could see how to someone raised on the former how this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n9HhmX36Gk

might hit better than the janet song

not trying to make value judgments about what's best just get at how maybe a younger listener might find it harder to listen to