REM: Classic or dud?

I don't pay for subs to any of those services, a little annoyed that this is the world we live in.

I don't pay for Spotify either fyi

Wow Stipe @ thinking Electron Blue is one of their best songs

Stipe’s on record as thinking Reveal is one of their best albums, too. I wonder if this era is so associated with his personal good fortune – he now had tens of millions of dollars in his pocket and enjoyed a niche in New York artistic circles – that he doesn’t quite realize how weak the music seemed to listeners.

tbc Reveal was (is?) much better regarded in the UK.

Hell, it could just be ego at work. Apparently "Up" was kind of challenging, because without Bill in the mix Peter and Mike sort of wrestled with balancing one another's songs. Maybe Stipe stepped up a bit more for the next album and had more involvement?

Poor fables

A paltry 1 track

I wonder to what extent that is because they had such a bad time recording the album; that seems to bias the opinions of musicians more often that you might think.

One of the albums has to be like that, they can't all be winners

Stipe with 5 post-2000 tracks is…unsurprising

I don't think it's surprising that an artist thinks their later work is their best work. They have a totally different perspective on their work and surely weren't that interested in chasing after something they'd already captured before. Everything grows out of what came before so I totally get him choosing a lot of songs from the later albums or being on record thinking Reveal is one of their best. But I also think it's wild, even if you had to do a POX of just the post-Berry stuff, to rate Electron Blue that high.

(Also for the record, I also think Reveal is a great album and is unfairly maligned. It's certainly better than the three that came after it and I might even argue that it's better than Up, too. Maybe.)

xp

One of the albums has to be like that, they can't all be winners

I don't think it's surprising that an artist thinks their later work is their best work.

I can definitely see Stipe thinking that his later songwriting, in the abstract, was his best. But in terms of the recorded performances, especially with Accelerate on, his voice was so shot that the final product is weaker regardless.

I love Reveal, and I'm not sure if how much better regarded it is here but two weeks at number one are nothing to be sniffed at. Although it had half the chart life of Up (which never went to the top because they released it the same week as Robbie).

Im glad to see I Remember California get some love too — what a weird track and I’ve always liked it

i can't believe no one picked Fall On Me

Love that one

I Remember California is MAAAYBE my favourite 80s track. And I'm not sure how to feel about it being maaaybe my favourite 80s track.

I used to enjoy it but it was never a favourite. Then a good few years ago I reminded myself of the Tourfilm version - so much menace and electricity - and it has forever changed how I hear either version.

i can't believe no one picked Fall On Me

yeah probably

i also love Fall on Me fwiw

I went on a REM kick last week and gave a couple of listens to "Lifes Rich Pageant" and was reading some Wiki on Don Gehman and I got a chuckle out of this part.

However, the band believed that Gehman's "meticulously high standards" meant he did not consider the album a complete success.[14] When getting ready for their next album Buck says, "We were talking to Don, but he was getting kinda cold feet. He was saying, 'I really want to make a record that's a huge commercial success, and as much as I like you all as people, and I like the band, the way you work, I can't hear that you're going to have a huge hit.'"[14] When Gehman was not available as readily as the band wanted for their next recording needs, he recommended Scott Litt who went on to work with the band on future projects.[15]

I'd imagine Scott Litt says thank you for handing me a band that was on it's way to being one of the most popular in the world at the peak of their career.

I love "Fall on Me" too. It's one of their best. I love that whole album. That one, the first two and the EP are my favorites.

It's easy to imagine the guy responsible for John Mellencamp's biggest (and best) albums thinking that this band had no future.

I don't know, pretty much every REM album outsold the next one. I guess he was just a fogey that really did not get it. That said, that record does sound really good (as does the Mellencamp stuff). Gehman did later have a huge hit with Hootie and the Blowfish, which I guess was more his speed.

I actually wish they HAD made more albums together.

but then LRP is unique in their catalog anyway.

There might be a thread in records where engineers/producers of the old guard worked with new guard musicians and the results. Sometimes it works and sometimes it don't.

Say The Church with "Starfish" and Waddy Wachtel or XTC's "Skylarking" with Todd Rundgren - both were their most popular albums at least to that point, but the band's HATED the experience. Nick Cave working with David Briggs was kind of a disaster according to him. Red Hot Chili Peppers just did a bunch of drugs with George Clinton.

I wanna protest strongly this idea of Gehman as a fogey, for god's sake.

Litt was obv a great fitt, but I do wonder what their creative/career arc would have been if they had worked with different folks at that stage. They seem like a band whose sound was particularly influenced by producer(s), though maybe that’s true for many

From his work as remix guy on Nirvana and Liz Phair's stuff, Litt strikes me as an excellent tabula rasa.

Fun other quote from Cougar, who called Fables 'a dirge'. "I was much more interested in the Bruce Springsteen/John Cougar Mellencamp/Bryan Adams phenomenon. I was looking to three to five million, not the 100,000 sales."

Gehman* obv

Gehman otm. The band got what it wanted: "Fall on Me" on AOR radio, their first gold album, etc.

Having skipped the last few albums, Every Day Is Yours To Win is a lovely discovery for me. Good pick, Mike.

Reckoning was treated worse, and the Murmur picks are odd.

here's a half assed theory: from having listened to many REM bootlegs from the early years up through Green they played those Reckoning/Murmur songs soooo much, the ones I see here (We Walk, So Central Rain) stand out as being either not a song they played a lot live, or are a little different than the rest of the album. We walk stands out on Murmur because of the beat, So Central Rain stands out because it's the catchiest poppiest song on the record. I dunno. I'm guessing they like playing the hits like Fall on Me, but great songs like Harborcoat got worn out by playing them so much

bet you’re right

Bertis Downs adds a few more

Ten more, Bertis’s version:

Gardening at Night
Turn You Inside-Out
Life and How to Live It
Walk It Back
Horse to Water
Photograph
Green Grown the Rushes
Maps and Legends
Carnival of Sorts (Boxcars)
Monty Got a Raw Deal

Waiting for Kate Pierson's top 2 list.

I’d wait for Jefferson Holt’s Top 10, but I guess the terms of his settlement make that unlikely.

Bertis gets it re: fables!

https://xpn.org/2023/06/29/a-28-year-old-r-e-m-song-gets-a-new-life-in-the-bear/

Saw that show tonight with Michael Shannon and friends, including Jason Narducy and John Wurster (and my guitar teacher) covering"Murmur" in its entirety (plus some deep cuts). It was for the 40th anniversary of the Metro; REM had played the club's first ever show. Super cool icing on the cake, Mike Mills showed up to sing on about a half dozen or so songs! Shaking Through, 1,000,000, Swan Swan H, These Days ... He was having a blast, and the whole night ruled. I'll post some videos once other people put them up.

I was there too! Loved it.

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/364175731_5836574386442069_2206285378740769288_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s1080x2048&_nc_cat=111&cb=99be929b-59f725be&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Sw--mgTRob4AX-xB2uo&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfBwEjFHZJniZVFHXVbDAw9CiX6q8lnGtjhlNbI_Ib5TvQ&oe=64CD58D0

smh tv shows… for a second there I thought that both REM and Steely Dan had a long lost outtake called “The Bear”

Good god, extreme FOMO (or AAMO, anguish at missing out?) about that Metro show! (I mean, I would have had to go to Chicago, but had I known that was happening and that Mills was showing up, I might have!

Here's one of a few clips I found (this one sans Mills, but the band killing it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjh1TgtG6bg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fymNrKVECg8