The Go-Betweens - what's it all about?

LOL forgot about the videos. I like the one for "Cattle and Cane." Clearly a cheap, no-budget video - IIRC it's just the three of them in a barn? - but a great understated song deserves a simple, understated video, not something that'll overwhelm or replace the music in one's mind.

Agree re: "Quiet Heart" too, and I think it may have been inspired by "With or Without You"? That whole album has a lot of songs that would've sounded nice on the radio - "Clouds" sounds like something that would've been a big hit in the early-to-mid '90s. There's an older Go-Betweens documentary (not the one from 2017, I think this one may have been done while Grant was alive) where Robert talks about how demoralizing it was when 16LL didn't change anything - i.e. we went through hell making that record, toured around the world, pretty much exhausted ourselves...and wound up back in Australia where we're supposed to do it all AGAIN. I think it sold only a couple hundred thousand copies in America even though it was distributed by Capitol, but for an acclaimed and well-established band of that time, that does kind of suck. I don't think massive success would've been great for them, but it brings to mind John Cassavetes - he started mortgaging his house when he began making his own films, and even though he made a string of masterpieces, by the end of his life he still owed just as much if not more to the bank. He didn't expect to become Spielberg or anything but it would've been nice not to have that level of financial pressure day-in and day-out.

"Clouds" sounds like something that would've been a big hit in the early-to-mid '90s

I meant on whichever stations were playing stuff like "Linger," not the ones playing grunge

wouldn't be surprised if (arrangement-wise at least) "quiet heart" was explicitly influenced by "with or without you" (though I want to say that either Forster or McLennan said it started out as a more jesus and mary chain kind of thing)

Possibly why it's one of my least favourite Go-B's songs.

noooooooo it is beautiful

Love Robert's voice but it just isn't something you can imagine helping them get to REM level
― PaulTMA, Wednesday, June 28, 2023 8:26 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Sure. Grant's voice though?

The 'Right Here' documentary is a suitable companion to the book btw. Paints a pretty clear picture re: their (relative) successes and failures, and, more interestingly, the dynamics within the band. I loved it.

Alfred pretty otm so far. there was always something at right angles about them that precluded stardom and made them so interesting.

ultimately the other members of the band seemed to have a better assessment of their ceiling. RF/GM thought they could shake those off and have an easier life. both failed to fully understand / were too tired to continue living with the original lineup's charisma, and then on their own they learned they couldn't be pop stars.

both of them seem to have variously enjoyed their distinctiveness and railed against it: always being determined to have female members, then allegedly complaining about the girls, wearing dresses / egging each other on to do it at influential events, recording spoken word and other rambles. and that's just Grant the pop one. there's a lot of weird "I never wanted it anyway!" rationalising after the fact.

having said all that, loads of oddball bands got at least one hit in the 80s/90s: thinking of Prefab Sprout, though RF might shudder at the comparison.

those saying they're pompous to think they could be U2 are right but also time and acclaim makes us forget how skint and unpopular they really were - they seem to have had less success or promise of it at the time than say a Triffids or a Microdisney, both of whom now have less cred.

to me a bigger problem with the legacy, at least in the UK where you can't stream the first two albums, is people dismissing them essentially as a failed sophistipop band based on the later stuff.

also the videos are broadly heinous apart from Spring Rain. Head Full of Steam could surely have been an indie hit with a blander clip!

the Cattle & Cane video mentioned upthread is actually taken from the Australian TV show Countdown which explains why it makes a kind of lame sense. the little seen real one has surfaced on YouTube and is like a living version of the Before Hollywood album cover featuring them all looking pallid and Grant posing with a clock.

forgive the essays I sure love talking about the Go-Betweens

They sold a lot more records than Microdisney! I'd guess they sold more than the Triffids too, in the UK at least.

Yeah you can always look in the other direction. Sure, they were no U2 or Echo and the Bunnymen in terms of success, but they were also much more successful than Microdisney or the Apartments or Close Lobsters or whatever.

Their career thrived on failure -- that's the story. They needed cultdom to release such tense, uneven albums.

― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

100%. As a NZer, I've always thought of them as occupying an uneasy mid-point between Crowded House and the Chills (probably the closest Flying Nun band to them) in terms of success/cult-dom. Any Aussies want to chime in on how they're currently situated? I get the feeling "Cattle and Cane" is the song everyone covers / makes the APRA lists but 16LL tracks are the ones played on the radio.

Bono praising "Cattle and Cane" in 2006 as one of the best songs of all time did a lot for it.

the story of Grant's unraveling without mentioning heroin.

left with the elephant in the room--

Oh, c'mon, all, it's clear from Forster's memoir that heroin and, later, alcoholism destroyed McLennan. The idea of a grown man over 22 drinking Long Island ice teas depresses me.

I haven't read the book, so was going by prev comment. Seems right it's clear.

From a recent interview, after a few years of seeming to skirt around it: "Forster wholeheartedly rejects rumours that he died of a heroin overdose, and not because he is trying to sanctify the guy. “It seems ludicrous to me that Grant would shoot up heroin at 4pm, just before a hundred of his friends came over,” he says. “Maybe at 11pm when the party was dying down … I think alcohol killed him. It ate away at his body.""

Might be denial but he's pretty unequivocal elsewhere that Grant "walked to" an early death (I think he says that in the documentary extras) and unsparing in ways about his previous melancholy and physical decline that are revealing / heartbreaking enough, and maybe feels that last step is too ghoulish to take.

I find it even slightly more painful tbh to think of someone finally getting the life they want and then being taken by the cumulative result of previous heavy living. Cruel.

Thanks. Yeah, the longtime affects of alcohol and speedy drugs, especially, can really keep affecting even people who have cleaned up a while back.

This theory makes sense to me. Reminds me of the sad case of Rick Danko who, after he stopped using, basically ate himself to death iirc.

It was probably a constellation of health reasons, not all alcoholics die before they're 50. His father died young too. In the book as I recall, Robert says Grant had complained of tingling in the fingers and ill health in the weeks before, and had gone to see a doctor. He probably had some cardiovascular blockage that ultimately led to the heart attack.

Forster also has chronic hepatitis thanks to his heroin experiments.

I find it even slightly more painful tbh to think of someone finally getting the life they want and then being taken by the cumulative result of previous heavy living. Cruel.

The last girlfriend of Miles Davis reported that this is how he felt in his final months.

Forster also has chronic hepatitis thanks to his heroin experiments.

So did Walter Becker, who was apparently very unwell for quite a while before he died.

I've been trying to think of a Canadian equivalent to this group. Best I can come up with is if Grapes of Wrath had banded together with their girlfriends in Lava Hay and worked overtime trying to write "literary" lyrics.
90s Canadian equivalent probably Ron Sexsmith, whose songs I haven't found that impressive. But people seemed to be blown away for awhile.

Happy birthday, Mr. Forster!

Oh wow. Happy Birthday, big yin!

I assembled a playlist a few years ago, updated.

this discussion prompted me to look at what's on us spotify and, welp, that was fairly disappointing. oddly it seems all of the pair's solo recordings are there. not complaining, but what the hell?

I've been trying to think of a Canadian equivalent to this group.

Contemporaneous Canadians? I loved the Grapes but they lacked the appealing awkwardness of Forster/McLennan. Pursuit of Happiness had the gender diversity but stylistically weren't at all similar. I dunno, I don't think I could name a reasonable equivalent for them even at the global level.

And yes, a happy birthday to RF!

also on the list of luminaries destroyed by historical excess despite getting their shit together, Rowland S Howard. His death still hurts.

Robert seems to have launched a cereal called Spring Grain and it's not a joke

https://www.facebook.com/robertforsterofficial/posts/pfbid0XR9dC1XNxupnYrji7xdBxkMsWokhJzgXAJ4JHuA1QBbCUbiwMjYTRsnffYyfJfYLl

I am going to the launch event on Thursday morning and will report back.

I began eating muesli in my late teens. I loved the milky mixture of oats and grains and sultanas – and knowing it was good for me. Through the years as muesli became more mainstream, I noticed my morning bowl was becoming more colourful and sweeter. A time came when my doctor and dieticians told me my breakfast was no longer good for my long-term health. The exotic pieces of dried fruit were pushing up my sugar levels. The nuts lurking in the dried fruit were harming my teeth. Something had to change.

I looked for a simpler, tastier, gentler product on the shelves, but I couldn’t find it. What was I looking for? I knew organic wholegrain oats were important. I knew a sprinkle of coconut would be good. Ground sunflower and linseeds were super healthy. A strategically placed sultana would be divine. I remembered Amaranth puffs, the South American superfood. And ground Brazil Nuts, rich in the health-preserving mineral Selenium – every nutritionist recommended them. I mixed these ingredients in my kitchen like an inspired scientist. Until I got what I wanted. The magic mix. Spring Grain.

Now here’s the genius part. It’s your muesli. I’m giving you the basics, a cereal that works beautifully by itself. However, if you want to augment your muesli experience you can. Add half a chopped pear one day. A handful of berries the next. The corporations aren’t sweetening your muesli – you are. Add your chosen milk. And as a final treat, perhaps a loving spoonful of natural yoghurt on top. How will it taste? Just like Spring Grain.

https://robertforsterspringgrain.tmstor.es/product/117976

delivery cost makes this a bit rich for my blood sadly

This is great. My breakfast these days is mostly steel cut oatmeal with nuts and fat-free yogurt so I would definitely get this.

Pick me up in pieces, I'm scattered and broken
Slow, slow muesli

In development: Bachelor Knishes

I got as far as "falling down like wheat" before I gave up trying to Weird Al it

dude like his breakfast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV-mi0bFpaI

Draining the Bowl for You

Was There Anything I Could Chew?

Wheats of Your Town

Head Full of Cream (of Wheat)

and their steel-cut oats, their lovely steel-cut oats
the Clarke sisters

Cattle and Grain

Sorry, doesn’t work, too close to the original

I can't wait to see if my
Amaranth's accepted

Graining The Pool For You

er, Graining The Bowl For You

Sorry, doesn’t work, too close to the original

But that makes the song all the more viable for advertising - they missed their chance to cash-in with Quaker Oats!

Joking aside, it's strange how old white guys are like the go-to face for breakfast grains now, between the Quaker dude, the late Wilford Brimley, Bob's Red Mill and now Robert.