Steely Dan: "Steely Dan's name has been popping up as a hip musical crush. Remember, this glossy bop-pop was the indifferent aristocracy to punk rock's stone-throwing in the late 70's. People fought

xp Though this clip predates both those bands by a few years. The singer with the green head wrap looks like she could have easily slotted into Bette Midler's act at the time.

Yes indeed.

This “second arrangement” brouhaha is a nothingburger imho

My son has reached the steely dan fandom stage of "being surprised/confused about david palmer"

About his existence?

Some kind of Doug Yule thing?

He wasn't familiar w can't buy a thrill, so he was surprised in that Yule way. I tried to explain his presence as I understood it, some combination of record company insistence/fagen lacking confidence in his lead vocals, but I don't recall the exact correct story. Not sure why they had Palmer sing lead there, fagen slays the vocal on CBAT, and palmer is an ill fit.

I believe the standard story is that there are three stages.

Stage one: Fagen lacked confidence in his vocals on the first album, and enlisted Palmer (and a few others) for songs like e.g., "Dirty Work."

Stage two: Fagen became more able to bring it in the studio (mostly) but had stage fright and/or did not have enough confidence in his ability to sing live. Hence Palmer singing on live dates.

Stage three: Fagen said fuck it and decided to be the main singer thenceforward.

So, to omar, Don slayed on the record but (for a time) preferred to have Palmer sing when they were live.

I think I was thrown by not spotting the dates, makes sense palmer would be singing on the earlier broadcast.

Nightfly, by Peter Jones, suggests that Fagen tried to get Loudon Wainwright III to join the band as lead vocalist, but got turned down:

Everyone loved Donald's vocals except Donald. "I didn't think most people wanted to hear a Jew sing", he pronounced a couple of years later.

Wow

Howard Kaylan said he and Mark Vollman were also considered .

Don'n'GlennWalt are dismissive towards Palmer in the CD liners to CBAT, claiming he was a 'late addition' who was given songs in his key to sing.

I think there have been more than a few Jewish persons that we wanted to hear singing songs. Note the careers of e.g. Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Bette Midler, Billy Joel, Barbra Streisand, but I digress.

feel like I read somewhere that don also attempted to cajole michael mcdonald into singing lead full-time circa pretzel logic, which might have been interesting, certainly the live clips from that period which include mcdonald are incredible, funny they ceased touring altogether after forming the best live band ever

always thought jim hodder was kinda slept on, sounds real good on midnight cruiser

Royce Jones - percussion, vocals
Jeff Baxter - guitar, pedal steel, percussion, background vocals
Denny Dias - guitar
Walter Becker - bass
Donald Fagen - piano, synthesizer, vocals
Michael McDonald - Fender Rhodes, vocals
Jim Hodder - drums, percussion, background vocals
Jeff Porcaro - drums

in 74?! like c'mon guys save some for the rest of us, what a ridiculous band

Nearly forgot about Royce Jones.

the fidelity on the latest “second arrangement” tape is pretty great, plus an early version of “third world man” thrown in for good measure

https://expandingdan.substack.com/p/second-arrangement-steely-dan-roger-nichols-tape

now get Weird Al to re-do it as Second Arraignment for Trump

Steely Dan's Jeff ''Skunk'' Baxter, Jim Hodder, Denny Dias, Donald Fagen and Walter Becker at the Village Recorder, Los Angeles, California during the recording sessions of their 1973 masterpiece, 'Countdown to Ecstasy' pic.twitter.com/cMRR1PLD0n

— Barney Hurley (@barneyhurley1) June 25, 2023

Those sessions apparently climaxed with Fagen throwing an ARP synthesizer down the studio stairway and then setting it on fire (because of the trouble keeping it in tune)!

did that work?

Whether or not those are folks off of the street attending the Midnight Special, or similarly for Kirschners rock concert, it's also reflective of audiences at rock and pop events in the era having been conditioned to sit passively and often slack jawed while music that would seem to inspire movement is played. You had Beatlemania and early rock and roll connecting to an audience that very literally had no experience handling the physical sensation of music this kinetic, and they went bug shit, and thank goodness for that! And then, from 67 onwards to the slamdance period, the audience then tends to sit down, either in seats or on the floor of the venue, and remains immobile, allegedly to best let the genius of Alvin Lee or Jan Akkerman wash over you. For almost any footage during the time when bands frequently were shot for tv or concert films, it is remarkable how the behavior of the crowds is as sedate and passive as it is (the two guys losing their shit when Sabbath did Kirschners show, or the chicks dancing to Uriah Heep's "the Wizard" on whichever english show it is notwithstanding)… and once the concert business gets its shit together in the late 60s/early 70s, there is no doubt that this state of affairs is what Don Law and his peers preferred. When disco hit hard in 76/77, that people dared to dance instead of passively receiving real music was one of the most heinous crimes the genre perpetrated.

Intriguing thesis, veronica moser.

The received lore is that Beatles, when playing live, could not hear anything other than screaming, because (the story goes) the audience was interested only in them as personalities as opposed to musicians. Their concerts were completely drowned out by swooning teens (mostly girls, of course, because that is the narrative).

I personally don't buy this narrative. There wasn't, and isn't, any other instance of four average or slightly-better-than-average-looking dudes wearing clothes and standing someplace and receiving the same adulation. They must have been doing SOMETHING right.

There was a whole alleged thing around the transition from Beatles to Zeppelin, where instead of personalities, people "started" being interested in music. This narrative is also bullshit, because music had been already around for a thousand years.

Invented by Byzantine eunuchs to celebrate victory in the Battle of Arcadiopolis in 970 to be exact.

I heard some Beatlemania level screaming this weekend throughout a 1987 performance of Soda Stereo in Chile, but other than that can’t recall such a phenomenon apart from the original.

Thanks, Byzantine eunuchs

xp

they were mid

It was kind of funny how on during the middle of American Bandstand, Dick Clark would pretty much say, "OK, enough dancing. Let's sit in these bleachers and listen to some live music."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkupadNBt6s

The liner notes to the first Byrds album emphasize the extent to which they were making folk(/rock) danceable, but despite this I don't think they appeal on that front to fans of modern dance music. But even a year or two later, when Cream or the Doors released their debuts, it's pretty absurd to imagine audiences reacting by screaming or dancing (maybe the kind of manic swaying you see in Woodstock or Gimme Shelter).

I confess that I do not know a lot of dance music fans but it is a stretch to assume that they totes love the Byrds and Steely Dan

Happy to be corrected if I am wrong in this

The received lore is that Beatles, when playing live, could not hear anything other than screaming, because (the story goes) the audience was interested only in them as personalities as opposed to musicians. Their concerts were completely drowned out by swooning teens (mostly girls, of course, because that is the narrative).

I personally don't buy this narrative. There wasn't, and isn't, any other instance of four average or slightly-better-than-average-looking dudes wearing clothes and standing someplace and receiving the same adulation. They must have been doing SOMETHING right.

All of those bands were screamed at though, look at this footage of the Stones, the screaming is constant!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL3CB6_4G3k

he audience was interested only in them as personalities as opposed to musicians. Their concerts were completely drowned out by swooning teens (mostly girls, of course, because that is the narrative).

I agree with this

but I do believe they couldn't hear themselves, just given the state of PA and amplification at the time.

Maybe everyone was just too stoned from 1967-74.

Everyone was wild then, even Charles Manson had girls acting a little crazy when he was around.

And his music sucked

The Prosecutors don't get it, but the little girls understand

I confess that I do not know a lot of dance music fans but it is a stretch to assume that they totes love the Byrds and Steely Dan

Happy to be corrected if I am wrong in this

My god I am sick of this thread’s title.

people fought and died so that this could be the main Steely Dan thread, matttt

My perhaps over-subtle point was that in the 1965 context, even a group as rhythmically basic as the early Byrds could be rated for danceability, which would pretty soon go out the window as a quality prized in a rock band.

...though Ellen Willis did call CCR "America's top dance band" at the time.

The Byrd's got started in clubs, where you had to be able to make people dance. They gradually was phased out as the ballrooms took over, and even then a lot of those shows were promoted as "dances" into the late '60s.

Sure, but were people dancing to it like they were to soul records? I somehow doubt it!

You’ll dance to anything…by the Byrds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCOxslTvwC4

https://giphy.com/gifs/dancing-party-elaine-ku2YMEjzMwud2

https://i.imgur.com/sDBHcZJ.jpg