John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band

I love Skylarking but Ram has just way too many annoyances. Ever been around a peer or a performer who thinks they're doing a funny bit, particular a musical bit, that's really irritating and unfortunately they just keep doing it without getting the hint? That's what it feels like when I'm listening to Ram. I know Paul's used that voice on "Monkberry Moon Delight" before, but it was usually for a line or too, which was totally fine - stretched out over an entire song, it's f-ing irritating. "Uncle Albert" has a vast array of annoying vocal effects, a candidate for the worst #1 record I've ever heard from a major recording artist. And it just goes on and on..."Heart of the Country" is pleasant if inconsequential, "Smile Away" could be fun if I'm in the right mood, but the rest is the pits.

"Too Many People" and "Back Seat of My Car" is excellent - that would make a great double A-side single. If it was 1971 and I bought that 45, I would've bought Ram the next day with high expectations, and I would've been mightily disappointed.

your ram take is so 1971

xps I didn't mean existentialism really I meant "the existential" gestures vaguely at world - which I hear JL reaching for with a bunch of words and yoko achieving far more profoundly with one

I continue to be baffled by the love for lennon at his most whatever this is - to be nice it's a well made product, his voice sounds good for maybe the last time, it clearly means a lot to people so I'm trying not to be too rude about it

I’m with you Left. Let it rip, Lennon needed to make starting over 100x instead. Captured his “whatever this is”, but with some sincerity and heart rather than pretension and teenage naivety (in its negative sense)

So a lot of people found the same album irritating in 1971 as well - so what? I'm open to hearing a more convincing argument for Ram, but I've yet to hear one - is there something more than inspiring others to make homemade whimsical recordings?

Re: Plastic Ono Band, Yoko may have steered Lennon in that direction, but it's inherently an intensely personal work. That extends to everything he struggles with or references, and how he deals with it is going to be different than anyone else - Yoko's great as well but they previously lived two very different lives with different traumas and grew through different art forms. There's a lot going on in both of their works that's theirs to deal with alone, and it only makes sense to compare the two to a point.

if good pop music isn't a convincing enough argument - I'm not the most hardcore ramhead but someone who is bothered could make a case for it being just as personal as POB if you deconstruct the various facades the mccartneys play with

POB has personal elements but it's also a performance that gives off a vibe of putting it all out there while actually holding a lot back which is a very clever art trick that also feels somewhat disingenuous to me. the famous rolling stone interview is similar in this way but a lot worse

Disclosure as concealment strategy is almost a way of life for me

Lol, A+.

With McCartney, I don't think his best solo work is necessarily the result of personal exploration. There are exceptions - my favorite album, Run Devil Run, came out of his return to music after a period of mourning, and most of his love songs are obviously about Linda, though their quality is all over the map. Otherwise, I think his best solo cuts like his singles usually come out of expert craft. Some of his more "personal" songs from his solo career can sound mawkish or disappointingly bland to me, but then again Paul has addressed this when talking about the difference between him and John. John had a much tougher upbringing and struggled with a lot, that's partly why it's been a potent inspiration for him. Paul frames that difference as saying he's grateful he's a happier person for having had less difficulty in his upbringing. So if working at a catchy tune proves more fruitful than exploring his own happy marriage, that's fine with me.

I'm not a big fan of music (or really any art form) finding ostensible value purely from voyeurism. That's one of the difficult tricks about making intensely personal art, how to make it more about exhibitionism, but I think the great ones manage to become universal even when they look deeply inward - Long Day's Journey into Night is the first thing that comes to mind, and I find a lot of that in POB. Even when he's trying to lift himself up or burying himself deep in his love (for Yoko), those are paths and rituals anyone can take with their own lives.

Actually fudged something because it's late and I need to go to bed - I didn't mean to suggest that lifting himself up and finding solace in his love was a commonality the album had with O'Neill's play, which is not something you'll find there. (However, the resentments and pain found within a damaged family is something both works do share.)

Great post birdistheword. Was talking about this point with a friend the other day, comparing Neil young and Jason Molina. Neil, even on a song as blatantly autobiographical as “don’t be denied” never seems egotistical/always touches the universal in a way Molina aspires to, but doesn’t reach with such consistency. This is my issue with POB, its spirit is too solipsistic. I find the music interesting, but I don’t like the personality which burdens itself upon it

POB has personal elements but it's also a performance that gives off a vibe of putting it all out there while actually holding a lot back which is a very clever art trick that also feels somewhat disingenuous to me.

I.e. art?

The definition of "personal" and the admiration of "personal" art strikes me as remarkable in 2023, and I post it without condescension: I didn't expect it.

I think he’s is saying that Lennon is disingenuous stating “look at me naked” when really he’s wearing a very fancy coat and it’s a bit awkward and uncomfortable.

Personal is too flimsy a word. The personal can make great art, and terrible art. It’s a matter of whether you can communicate something pure through your personhood, and that purity is often tarred by vain overindulgence. Lennon has always come off as overindulgent to me. Track number 1 on this album case in point.

Mother vs Julia

Both intensely personal, one screeches, expresses an insularity, communicating this is my experience alone and I live on this island no one may dock at (so why record it?), the other speaks outside of itself and so allows the listener to partner with the personality, considering their own relationship with their mother, consider their object of love, consider the love their actions seek

“When I cannot sing my heart, I can only speak my mind”

More singing, less speaking

expresses an insularity, communicating this is my experience alone and I live on this island no one may dock at

It does?

Could you talk to a bloke singing that outro?

Is there a thread for “songs to never sing at karaoke”?

(xp) Sure, why not?

Got more patience than me

POB's use of echo acts as the essential distancing device: I hear a series of performances by a guy almost as alien as Bowie would be.

Is there a thread for “songs to never sing at karaoke”?

Performative is a good description of this album