they don't have enough material for a ballot poll
― imago, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 14:06 (nine months ago) link
Can we please have a name for early-mid 2010s NME Next Big Thing comic strip characters like Spector, Temples, the Strypes, Superfood, Swim Deep, Palma Violets and Drenge. None of these bands are necessarily alike other than they all live in the same part of my brain and only in that part. I want a less unwieldly name for them than the 'early-mid 2010s NME Next Big Thing' bands.
― you can see me from westbury white horse,
Viva Brother were probably the low point from this era/scene.
― kitchen person, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 14:09 (nine months ago) link
Viva Brother are now quite possibly the worst band to have been mentioned in this entire thread which is saying something.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 14:12 (nine months ago) link
post-punk revival and/or garage rock revival? 00s uk indie?― ufo, Tuesday, May 30, 2023 3:00 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― ufo, Tuesday, May 30, 2023 3:00 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
There was very little post-punk about the majority of these bands. I'd attribute "post-punk revival" more to bands like Savages, Ought, Algiers and that recetn spate of "talkie" bands. Garage Rock Revival, maybe but pfff... that could be anyone really. That could be, I dunno, Guitar Wolf or whatever. 00s UK indie is fine, if a bit broad, and hardly rolls off the tongue.
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 14:17 (nine months ago) link
Thing about pejorative terms becoming de facto terms is the examples of it that exist are descriptive - impressionism was meant as a diss sure but it also does evoke quite well what those paintings are like, bollywood while mostly quite bad term does at least vaguely suggest "Indian cinema". In those terms "landfill indie" doesn't really give you anything except "indie music that record execs thought would sell loads, but didn't".
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 14:31 (nine months ago) link
Anyway the fact that no one ever came up with a good name for that Strokes/White Stripes/Hives/Vines moment is one of the funniest things about it (in addition to New Rock Revolution the NME also once tried to float "no name"), and a very apt end of history kind of situation, where the cycles of retro recycling had churned on for so long that there wasn't even the energy to come up with a name (only the Hives truly fit in as pure garage rock revival, from those four I've cited). Why would you want to ruin that by slapping on some unrelated brand.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 14:34 (nine months ago) link
This music sounds like a bunch of plant machines and seagulls squawking, so it's apt in more ways than one
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 14:35 (nine months ago) link
Just remembered that the best-selling rock album full stop during the landfill period was Kings of Leon's Only by the Night. At 10x Platinum. I don't think any rock album has sold nearly as much since.
― you can see me from westbury white horse
Kings Of Leon were one of the few band from that era who seemed to have a good 2008/9. I remember there was this period where all the bands who had done well with their first and second albums suddenly had albums out that under-performed compared to their previous ones. Kaiser Chiefs, The Kooks, The Zutons, The Fratellis, Razorlight, Automatic, The Enemy, Bloc Party, Maximo Park, Keane and The View all had a major decline in album sales despite a couple of those bands still managing to plop out one last hit (The Kooks had a top three single but a second album that sold a quarter of the first one). It even seemed like Arctic Monkeys were faltering too with Humbug. It was quite entertaining seeing all these bands drop off one by one.
― kitchen person, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 14:44 (nine months ago) link
bloc party & franz ferdinand were very into post-punk and they're pretty central 00s uk indie acts. a fair few of the acts on the landfill list had the bass-driven sound with angular guitar lines - editors, maximo park, the cribs, futureheads, and so on, and they certainly didn't get that from oasis. maybe you can argue some of them got it from the strokes, but then where did the strokes get it from?
the strokes have six albums and half of them are great, that's enough to poll if people are interested.
― ufo, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 14:53 (nine months ago) link
even the weaker strokes albums have some worthwhile stuff going on & there's solo casablancas too who's probably better on average, somehow
― ufo, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 14:55 (nine months ago) link
xp kitchen person. That was the final act of landfilldom settling in.
I do remember thinking it odd at the time that the Kaisers' and Bloc Party's third albums arrived so quickly. In hindsight it was probably wise as the moment was fleeting. I was a keen album chart watcher at the time and expected Razorlight's to do well after the huge predecessor but it didn't even make the top three. But I remember even then the mid-2008 returns of the Kooks, Zutons and Fratellis seemed to accompany the writing on the wall (also the Feeling - not indie but promoted similarly).
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 14:56 (nine months ago) link
The Feeling is another good example for sure. Along with Kaiser Chiefs, Kooks and Razorlight they were one of the few bands where the first single indicated there wasn't a problem. It was only when they all had second singles that did nothing that it was clear things were turning for them. Razorlight's drop off was so quick. That second album was bigger than the first and the lead single (which I still remember someone accurately describing as The Boomtown Rats covering Horse With No Name) did quite well. That album chart position was a disaster in comparison and they never recovered.
I'm alarmed that my brain remembers all these things without having to look them up. Why do I remember chart positions for Kooks singles when I can barely remember what I did at the weekend?
― kitchen person, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 15:08 (nine months ago) link
You and me both, on both accounts.
I seem to remember quite liking Wire to Wire in theory - perhaps because less obviously built on Cure or U2 interpolations - but my distaste for JB typically got in the way. Never Miss a Beat, Take Back the City, (especially) I Thought It Was Over and (especially especially) Spiralling were all better. The only time I ever heard the Feeling's major flop follow-up to ITIWO was on Now 70, on which it was inexplicably included.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 15:19 (nine months ago) link
If there's an American band that belongs in this category, it's probably the Bravery.
― MarkoP, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 15:23 (nine months ago) link
There is the potential here to do a UK 2008 equivalent to the commercially disappointing major label rock/alternative albums of 1996 poll except the amount of actually good albums would be much lower still.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 15:23 (nine months ago) link
Interesting that in the hinterland between landfill dying and the unsuccessful NME Next Big Things era, White Lies emerged and bested the near-identical Interpol/Bravery/Editors in getting a UK No. 1 album. I'm not quite sure how they fit into the picture.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 15:29 (nine months ago) link
(Actually Editors did end up with a few No. 1s, I should have said a UK No. 1 debut)
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 15:32 (nine months ago) link
getting the feeling my idea of what comprises "landfill" is wildly different from what others consider it to be
― massaman gai (front tea for two), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 15:32 (nine months ago) link
one man's trash...
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 15:32 (nine months ago) link
i seem to be labouring under the illusion that it's incurious mod revivalist plod pop with loud guitars. everyone else seems to be understanding it as retro post-punk rapture / franz ferdinand etc
― massaman gai (front tea for two), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 15:40 (nine months ago) link
Why do the young whippersnapper kids talk about the good old days of Indie Sleaze when no such thing existed?
― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 15:56 (nine months ago) link
I seem to remember White Lies releasing their first album right at the beginning of the year when album sales were really low. I can't imagine they had much competition. The Departure were another band who did that whole Interpol/Editors thing and had a couple of hits.
― kitchen person, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 16:00 (nine months ago) link
xp Here’s a thinkpiece on that…
― Day 1 fan (morrisp), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 16:16 (nine months ago) link
Can someone from the UK describe for me the Venn Diagram of "landfill indie" vs. "student disco"? (As musical selections, but also as like, concepts)
cf. NME's Student Disco Anthems Of All Time Poll
― The king of the demo (bernard snowy), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 17:25 (nine months ago) link
My experience of student discos is that they did not play Joy Division and I presume this NME poll was of people who read the NME at the time
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 18:15 (nine months ago) link
Can we please have a name for early-mid 2010s NME Next Big Thing comic strip characters like Spector, Temples, the Strypes, Superfood, Swim Deep, Palma Violets and Drenge.
i like that Double Dutch song actually. admittedly i forgot that it exists, but i like it.
― No, 𝘐'𝘮 Breathless! (Deflatormouse), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 18:19 (nine months ago) link
This thread is having real-world repercussions:
Arctic Monkeys Perform “Mardy Bum” Live For First Time In 10 Years
― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 18:24 (nine months ago) link
the san cisco song is still distinctly one of the worst songs i have ever heardI just backtracked to listen to this… holy moly
― Day 1 fan (morrisp), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 18:30 (nine months ago) link
i don't think franz ferdinand or the rapture are landfill but dog latin was arguing for a definition of it unrelated to quality or britishness that seemed broader than just mod revivalist plod pop (the strokes certainly aren't that, maximo park are definitely post-punk influenced) and i was trying to figure out where he was drawing the line
even the wombats had a clear post-punk influence, as dire as they were, and they're surely as landfill as it gets? personally i would just argue for landfill being the shit end of 00s uk indie on the garage rock/post-punk spectrum - the core of the 00s uk indie sound. i don't really know if a bunch of the acts we've talked about like maximo park, the cribs, futureheads etc. are shit enough for me to really count them even if i don't really care for them
― ufo, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 18:39 (nine months ago) link
all you need is two chords and a bit of confidence eh
― imago, Tuesday, 30 May 2023 18:44 (nine months ago) link
(xp)
Nothing wrong with two chord songs.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Tuesday, 30 May 2023 19:23 (nine months ago) link
anyway, the elephant in this particular thread is that, a year and a half ago, ILM voted a landfill indie song its favourite track of 2021. no notes
― imago, Thursday, 1 June 2023 07:50 (nine months ago) link
It’s curious how the Noisey piece cites two absolutely terrific songs as near contenders, but for their American-ness:
We’re focusing on British bands only – so, while Black Kids’ “I’m Not Gonna Teach Your Boyfriend How To Dance With You” and We Are Scientists’ “This Scene Is Dead” may be worthy soldiers for the cause, they are American and therefore too unique to be included in this homogenous group of Isle of Wight Festival fodder.
― Day 1 fan (morrisp), Thursday, 1 June 2023 08:12 (nine months ago) link
I actually think of those two bands (plus the Blood Arm, whom most here probably won’t know, but we saw them play a ton in L.A. back in the day) as constituting a “literate, slightly melancholy party music for overthinkers” mid-2000s micro-genre.
― Day 1 fan (morrisp), Thursday, 1 June 2023 08:42 (nine months ago) link
For some reason I think of Los Campesinos when those bands are mentioned. They were fun
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Thursday, 1 June 2023 10:14 (nine months ago) link
There you go - late 00's UK guitar band who probably didn't sell a lot of records but definitely weren't part of the "landfill" thing.
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Thursday, 1 June 2023 10:16 (nine months ago) link
yeah lc! were definitely not landfill, they had a completely different set of influences and were backed much more by the american press than the uk press
the noisey piece was not really concerned with quality as the dividing line, black kids don't really sound like most of this stuff anyway but i guess were a hyped up act that was quickly abandoned by the press, so there's a parallel there at least
i think we are scientists definitely fit sonically though?
― ufo, Thursday, 1 June 2023 11:45 (nine months ago) link
Yeah I don't think of Black Kids as landfill at all
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Thursday, 1 June 2023 12:50 (nine months ago) link
I do, or rather I didn't disambiguate between them and UK bands at the time nor feel the need to now.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 1 June 2023 14:10 (nine months ago) link
That first Black Kids EP is really fantastic and still stands up. The album was a disappointment though for sure. Underwritten songs and the production was way too slick.
― kitchen person, Thursday, 1 June 2023 14:11 (nine months ago) link
This thread reminds me that Bernard Butler produced his fair share of crap bands. 2008 was Duffy year for him though - in a parallel universe he is a Mark Ronson.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Thursday, 1 June 2023 14:13 (nine months ago) link
Where would Scottish band Sons and Daughters fall within all of this? The Repulsion Box (2005) was wild Celt-punk rowdiness; This Gift (2008, which was produced by Bernard Butler) was a bit more radio-friendly while still maintaining that spirit. I don't think they did anything after 2011's Mirror Mirror, which traded the folky stylings for darker, Goth-leaning vibes. "Rose Red" was the apotheosis, just a glorious track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXaRTb6CMec
― Front-loaded albums are musical gerrymandering (Prefecture), Thursday, 1 June 2023 16:08 (nine months ago) link
I guess I don't know what I'm talking about, and the definition of landfill indie actually isn't what I stated upthread, but in fact it's "when 3 people on ILM say a band sucks." You cleared it up, thank you.
― billstevejim, Friday, 2 June 2023 03:10 (nine months ago) link
That seems to be it yes
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Friday, 2 June 2023 08:31 (nine months ago) link
whatever people say landfill is, that's what it's not
― soup of magpies (geoffreyess), Friday, 2 June 2023 11:45 (nine months ago) link
It's the Goth principle
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Friday, 2 June 2023 11:47 (nine months ago) link