I've been thinking about this and it's like UK indie music with all the last vestiges of punk/post-punk removed so you're left with a bunch of incurious hacks who are fully onboard with the Beatles/Stones/Zep classic rock/ proper music canon.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 08:54 (eleven months ago) link
all my pals at uni were massively into this stuff and we went out every other week to an indie disco for it. I liked my pals as people and I liked the ritual of getting ready with them in various flats but wow was this stuff hard to enjoy even when full of booze with likeable people. I took up smoking because it meant I had an excuse to go outside when the worst of it was happening.
that said, I can never truly hate "She's So Lovely" purely because it is featured in the greatest British movie of all time, which is Angus, Thongs & Perfect Snogging
― boxedjoy, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 09:14 (eleven months ago) link
I forgot how much landfill is in that film, bend it like beckham predates this shit so the sountrack is way better
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 09:23 (eleven months ago) link
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 bookmarkflaglink
Judging from that British Sea Power thing at least the Stones and Zep loved the Blues and really wanted to get that sound right. Those guys show no desire to do even that.
It's like trying to make a sound that's nice to keep in the background as you revise for your exams.
Fascinating how bad it is.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 09:24 (eleven months ago) link
There's a lot on this list I'm not really familiar with. I do like the Zutons a lot. But the one band that really stands out for me is Guillemots, who I find truly special and any chance to back them, I'll take. Frontman Fyfe Dangerfield released a series of broadcasts in 2018 on his Channels May Change website called Birdwatcher, which consists of amazing new songs embedded within soundscapes and strange character storytelling, which is one of my very favourite music/art things ever.
― Valentijn, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 10:10 (eleven months ago) link
Yeah I think he's a true, underappreciated talent who I suspect was a bit too clever for the time or even for his own good. Lumping Guillemots in with the other cheeky chappie landfill droogs feels unfair
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 10:27 (eleven months ago) link
Landfill does not discriminate. Anyone can fall in. Anything.
― nashwan, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 10:32 (eleven months ago) link
Gaze into the landfill and the landfill gazes back...
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 10:36 (eleven months ago) link
Libertines at least were I think v much into trying to emulate punk. It's just the version of '77 these bands suscribe to is a very decadent, rock mag revision of the moment, amounting to "every ten years a new batch of bands has to come along and play simple guitar music to remind ppl of the power of ROCK".
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 10:47 (eleven months ago) link
it's like UK indie music with all the last vestiges of punk/post-punk removed so you're left with a bunch of incurious hacks who are fully onboard with the Beatles/Stones/Zep classic rock/ proper music canon
that's definitely a fair bit of this stuff, but plenty of it (i'd even say probably most of it?) is just worse takes on the post-punk revival that was big at the time.
noisey have also cast the net so wide here that there isn't that much consistency in the list, it's just nearly all the less notable uk indie acts from the 00s + arctic monkeys thrown in for some reason
― ufo, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 10:52 (eleven months ago) link
& yeah the less post-punk end of this stuff was still mostly at least vaguely into punk
― ufo, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 10:54 (eleven months ago) link
Yeah I just cued up the first four tracks on this list and half of them are def trying for punk more than they are boomer rock.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 10:54 (eleven months ago) link
I always thought that throughout the 2005-2015 period (probably starting earlier and perhaps ending later) the world was swamped with bands who mostly took (all the wrong) cues from the Clash and the Jam. Comparisons to either of those acts might be the quickest way to make me lose my interest in any band I don't know.
― Valentijn, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 11:19 (eleven months ago) link
did not know abt the guillemot guy's birdwatcher things - listening now & enjoying - thank you valentjn.clash/jam - yup no worse a turn off"incurious" nails it
― massaman gai (front tea for two), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 12:08 (eleven months ago) link
See, I became properly obsessed with 70s/80s new wave and post punk around that time by way of the SReynolds book, but I never heard the link between these bands and that stuff at all. Not even the Libertines or the Strokes - LCD Soundsystem and The Rapture, yes very much so, but not those mid-brand outfits.
To me it was just the long long tail of the Britpop era and the Gallagher brothers' proclamations about "rock-'n'-roll" endlessly recycling itself with diminishing returns.
90s Britpop was always accused of pastiching and romanticising the 60s and 70s, but landfill felt stultifyingly present-based, neither looking forward nor back, just staying in its own little spot with barely any room for experimentation or innovation. It was self-referential
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 12:22 (eleven months ago) link
Scouting for Girls weren't 'indie' enough but they were VILE
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 14:46 (eleven months ago) link
Comparisons to either of those acts might be the quickest way to make me lose my interest in any band I don't know.
A mix of the Clash and the Jam with the swagger of Oasis
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 14:48 (eleven months ago) link
Probably true but I'm sure they all doff their hats to the Beatles and shite canonical boomer rock in general.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 14:49 (eleven months ago) link
... Clash, Pistols, Jam.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 14:50 (eleven months ago) link
Does anyone know the name of the band, maybe five-six years ago, who did a video presentation saying that when they were growing up everyone was listening to shit like busted and mcfly whereas these special lads were listening to proper music like the arctic monkeys. Had me laughing in a depressed 'oh no we're at this stage' way but I've never been able to find it since.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 14:53 (eleven months ago) link
Not even the Libertines or the Strokes - LCD Soundsystem and The Rapture, yes very much so, but not those mid-brand outfits.
the libertines are definitely the sort to not really draw on much past the clash/the jam, but the strokes were pretty obviously heavily influenced by television
could probably plot most of this stuff on a spectrum from garage rock revival to post-punk revival because most of it ended up somewhere in-between
― ufo, Tuesday, 23 May 2023 20:20 (eleven months ago) link
I just don't hear the Television / Strokes connection beyond they are NY bands with guitars
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 21:04 (eleven months ago) link
i always heard the libertines specifically as like a third rate knockoff of the jam. like they played the songs that the jam ditched because they realized the material was drab. libertines had zero quality control, so why not toss out any old shit, as long as it was mildly reminiscent of something "cool" right?
also took personal offense when any of these bands were considered similar to/influenced by television. that's like saying the doors influenced x, on account of them both being la bands. just lazy.
(although i was amused by the marquee moon shoutout in the mystery jets song on this list)
― my beard exists more than i do. (Austin), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 22:04 (eleven months ago) link
Ray Manzarek did produce X’s first album (which included a Doors cover).
― Day 1 fan (morrisp), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 22:07 (eleven months ago) link
and mick jones produced the libertines. what's your point?
― my beard exists more than i do. (Austin), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 22:09 (eleven months ago) link
My point is that ppl didn't say that solely "on account of them both being L.A. bands"; there was more to it. (X also later covered another Doors song, again with Manzarek producing; and Robbie Krieger played on some of their reunion stuff. I think it's safe to conclude there's an affinity there!)
― Day 1 fan (morrisp), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 22:21 (eleven months ago) link
FWIW, I don't hear much Television in the Strokes... but if Richard Lloyd had produced their debut, and they had covered "Prove It" (which actually may have sounded cool!)...
― Day 1 fan (morrisp), Tuesday, 23 May 2023 22:23 (eleven months ago) link
apparently casablancas actually denied having even heard television before he wrote is this it, but the comparison is all about the guitars - the interplay, some of the tones, the solos. obviously all streamlined in comparison to television though - like if you got them to make a power-pop record
i don't really think the strokes sound that much like most of the other 'garage rock revival' bands at all, way too new wave compared to all those. not that any of these uk acts really picked up on that though
― ufo, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 02:41 (eleven months ago) link
tbh i always thought the first strokes record -musically anyway- sounded a lot closer to three imaginary boys than any of the og nyc punk/new wave they were likened to.
― my beard exists more than i do. (Austin), Wednesday, 24 May 2023 02:47 (eleven months ago) link
The Libertines repeatedly, catastrophically failed at tunes. As boring as I find the Strokes I can appreciate what people hear in Hard to Explain or Last Nite, but any melodic warmth the Libertines may have had was snuffed out by the sloppy playing, indifferent production, the presence of Doherty's horrible singing. A few tracks - e.g. Can't Stand Me Now - might have become pop in someone else's hands but in the Libertines its all in lowercase and dirgey.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 03:38 (eleven months ago) link
This is one of the many, many reasons there are to hate on Fuck Forever. The song is nothing but a title, and Doherty thinks that's enough to go on for an 'anthem'. Sadly, so did so many others. The lazy Beatles security cliches of All Around the World seem Olympian in comparison.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 03:43 (eleven months ago) link
― you can see me from westbury white horse
The only Libertines songs that sound listenable to me now are the few that Bernard Butler produced. Songs like What A Waster and Don't Look Back Into The Sun sound so polished and so much more competent than anything on the albums. Bernard admitted he ended up playing a bunch of the guitar parts on them. When they re-recorded I Get Along for the album, they seemed to deliberately sound much worse than the single/Bernard version just so it would fit with how bad the album sounded.
― kitchen person, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 04:01 (eleven months ago) link
I still like the first Libertines album, I agree that it sounds like they were deliberately going for that shambolic sound, "might have become pop in someone else's hands" is what they were aiming for, the romance of indie groups where part of their appeal to people is that you have these songs that could be in the canon of universally acclaimed classic pop songs alongside but recorded in a self-sabotaging way where everything sounds like it's on the verge of falling apart. I think Doherty used to talk about Television Personalities in interviews, and I think they were maybe trying to sound like them but weren't really good enough?
Maybe a not entirely successful attempt to combine the ladishness, communal aspect of the Jam with the eeriness and frailty of the TVPs
― he thinks it's chinese money (soref), Wednesday, 24 May 2023 08:13 (eleven months ago) link
"don't look back into the sun" is easily the best libertines song yeah. "can't stand me now" is also decent but pretty much just a rehash of that
― ufo, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 08:59 (eleven months ago) link
Xposts yeah Bernard's productions I like, Mick Jones' less so.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 09:18 (eleven months ago) link
I always found both these bands to sound very flimsy-sounding and uncreative. I've no problem with rock qua rock, but if you're going to shout about rock music then you've got to, you know, rock, right?
Whereas for the Strokes and the Libertines "rock" seemed to mean just sounding like some pretty okay local band.
There was very little about this music that was transportational or exceptional - it just felt very "tools of the trade" or something
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Wednesday, 24 May 2023 09:23 (eleven months ago) link
And it's not like I don't get what soref is saying either - I'm a huge fan of new wave / post punk / slightly shambolic pop-rock in general - I even played in a band and wrote songs in that vein - but these guys just didn't really have that weirdness that made bands like Television Personalities so appealing.
What's quite amusing is that I really really like Ought/Cola - that is until my housemate heard me playing the Cola album and remarked on how much it sounded like the Strokes, which I guess it does, but there's something more poetic and anti-rockstar about those lads which I really like
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Wednesday, 24 May 2023 09:28 (eleven months ago) link
Ok having said that I think there's a fair bit of Punk and Post Punk worship amongst these bands I will state categorically that none of them were trying to sound like Television Personalities (more's the pity).
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 09:44 (eleven months ago) link
it's still weird to me that the strokes were sold as like 'garage rock revival', 'a return to rock', etc. when they're so composed and streamlined - you can hardly imagine them rocking out or anything at all. i don't think that's a bad thing just a weird disconnect
the relatively lo-fi production on the first two albums does just kinda suck though, it sounds so small. i at least love the weird production tricks like the drums that sound like a drum machine, the guitars that sound like synths, etc.
they never really managed to do that early sound justice with the production on any of the later albums either. i love comedown machine but that just settles for doing something different.
― ufo, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 10:21 (eleven months ago) link
I really liked that EP of covers by Diff'rent Strokes called "This Isn't It" which really played on that drum machiney sound
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0iwgwBPSX0
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Wednesday, 24 May 2023 11:32 (eleven months ago) link
I'd actually pay money to hear a band like Plone or Pluxus cover a bunch of landfill indie hits
― Do I look like I know what a jpeg is? (dog latin), Wednesday, 24 May 2023 11:34 (eleven months ago) link
Strokes were good and garagey on The Modern Age single, and not since then.
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 24 May 2023 11:47 (eleven months ago) link
by far the best garage rock revival act was the exploding hearts though
― ufo, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 13:07 (eleven months ago) link
― Daniel_Rf
The Futureheads literally covered the TVPs (not sure if it ever made it to a record, but they did it live a lot).
― emil.y, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 13:13 (eleven months ago) link
Yeah I think part of my problem is I don't think they were good at this either - aside from the few tracks I was thinking of (including the Butler stuff, tho DLBITTS gets on my wick) I don't think their songs are even up to that 'pop in someone else's hands' potential. They profiled a supposedly platonic 'Rock' which apparently is any old pub band playing any old music.
― you can see me from westbury white horse, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 13:15 (eleven months ago) link
you can be a fully functioning american ILxor for 20 years, committed to paying attention to emerging developments in "rock music" or pop music at large, and go through those 20 years never having heard any of this music except for Arctic Monkeys. And what this tell me is that from 1963 until, what, the britpop late 90s?, there were always anglophiles, probly in most metropolitan areas, who foreswore american music in favor of, like Slade and the Move, to the class of 77, to Depeche Mode/Smiths/Cure, to Spacemen 3/Cocteaus/MBV to finally Oasis and Britpop. You guys should feel free to set me straight if the following is not so, but it seems to me that landfill indie does not have a significant american constituency along the lines of the previous 40 years of British imports. And I don't think certain americans liking Amy Winehouse/Adele or Stormzy/Dave is the same thing…
could it be that each of the english movements beloved to Anglophiles prior to britpop pushed music forward, and britpop was conservative, in ways reminiscent of the various interests that kept the american classic rock complex going for so long? which is to say that the conservative nature of britpop ended the anglophile tendency I've described above…
I interviewed the Razorlight guy 20 years ago, and man was he the dim, self-involved pretty boy you would imagine many post Oasis rock singers to be… on the other hand, I spent an afternoon with Carl Barat in and around South St Seaport around the time of Dirty Pretty Things debut, and I felt like the guys fucking therapist after a while… I was obliged to ask him about Pete Doherty, and I was prepared for him to not want to address the subject, being that english music journos wanted to talk about little else at the time, and then I would say "OK, just tell me a little bit about him and then we'll move on to other shit," but no no no, he was going on and on about him, PTSD-style… I really really liked the guy and enjoyed talking with him, obviously re: other subjects…I was told by a publicist once that English musicians tend to enjoy talking with american journos far far more than English writers, because the latter had fleet st in their blood, constantly needling the guys for dirt…
― veronica moser, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 14:57 (eleven months ago) link
I remember ages ago on the noize board someone suggested that anglophilia was dying and the kind of american who would have gone for that in previous generations would now be an anime nerd
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 15:03 (eleven months ago) link
i liked the libertines, up the bracket title track freakin rocks
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Wednesday, 24 May 2023 15:03 (eleven months ago) link
it’s a great album.
― brimstead, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 15:07 (eleven months ago) link
yes
― bulb after bulb, Wednesday, 24 May 2023 15:11 (eleven months ago) link