Hip Genres & Musical Styles: Which Is The Worst??

Sue Stewards book Salsa! Is a decent history I think. May have been outdone since it was released .
Apparently David Took did a mixtape of the genre for her which knocked her out and she took a deep dive into researching the music.
I'm not sure if the discography still sstands as the best starting points.seems compilations she recommended at the time have been overtaken by far more comprehensive sets and artists have much better loved sets listed on RYM but it is several decades since the book appeareed.

smashing FP on enochroot's RRK diss

― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Thursday, May 18, 2023

I obviously have no idea what sub-genre RRK was working in, but nonetheless that picture is exactly what free jazz sounds like to me. My upper limit is like Mwandishi or so.

I'd describe Rahsaan Roland Kirk's music as more soulful than skroky.

In my experience lots of trad music is about stealing, making really bad romantic decisions, and dying tragically.

Not sure how that aligns with conservative values

RRK was not free jazz.

tbh I like all of these, even if I feel some are "overrated" from time to time ... I have an irrational loathing for "The Girl from Ipanema" ... I had a roommate in the 90s who would play that song on repeat for hours (who was also annoying) so I voted Tropicalia even though I really only dislike that one song that is basically associated with that genre.

also for a while "The Girl from Ipanema" was used as hold music for some horrible conglomerate like the phone company or something? ... like 20 years ago, idk?

the girl from ipanema is bossa nova, not tropicalia

tropicalia possibly my favorite of all these

my deep apologies to the genre of Tropicalia, clearly my uninformed vote in this ilx poll has caused great harm to so many

lol

Tropicalia is basically Brazilian psych ...but it still represents that soft, curtains-blowing-in-the-wind side of Brazilian music that suuuuucks. The only Brazilian stuff I like is from the north of the country, with huge pounding drums. Samba, bossa nova, and tropicalia all go in the "no thanks" pile.

The only Brazilian stuff I like is from the north of the country, with huge pounding drums

i think I've heard some of this, and it totally slays

my actual boring answer is that all these genres, including the specific releases that hipsters have fetishized over the years, vary greatly in quality, so i have to abstain from voting

Tropicalia is basically Brazilian psych

it is SO much more than that! crazy imo to write it off based on having such a narrow idea of what it is.

It's all part of the same thing. I like the samba batucada stuff best too (made this playlist recently), but it's basically indoor vs outdoor versions of the same music, or at least very related.

xp

The only Brazilian stuff I like is from the north of the country

this is also crazy to me. there is an unbelievable amount of Brazilian music and taking such a miniscule view of it just feels like supreme musical arrogance.

well i guess you got your shitty challops ian

Yeah, crazy to throw out some of the most harmonically (and rhythmically) advanced music ever because it's "soft" or got marketed as lounge/chill-out music in the U.S.

some people just don't like "soft" sounding music, just like some people are anti-free jazz or anti-industrial or idk, don't like "hard" sounding music ... i don't like new age or smooth jazz ...

I only like Dark Smooth Jazz and Nu Age

Notoriously soft sounding Tom Zé.

Hard Bop is a subgenre of "Japanese"

― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes)

god dammit, one of my least favorite things about /mu/core is that it seems like these days more people have heard ryo fukui than bill evans (_scenery_: 8,383 rym ratings; _waltz for debby_: 4,505 rym ratings)

LISTEN TO MORE BILL EVANS MOTHERFUCKERS

/mu/core is the worst, i hate how much music i love is just shit fucked up self-loathing 4channers crate dug

private press singer/songwriter should probably be ruled out because 99% of it is just boring people singing about how much they love jesus

i like the little boogaloo i've heard but i had no idea it was hip. part of me still thinks of ricky ricardo when i hear the genre brought up. sort of a descendent of afro-cuban jazz?? maybe?

ricky ricardo played straight mambo, no? too early for boogaloo I think.

Notoriously soft sounding Tom Zé.

― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, May 18, 2023 11:29 AM (fifteen minutes ago)

lol ... y'all can make me feel guilty for not liking the stuff y'all like

but tbh ... it's like the people who through some weird quirk think cilantro tastes like soap ... and that's how they experience cilantro, and no matter how much you try to shame them for it or extoll the awesomeness of cilantro, they still have that taste ... and that's me and the music I just don't like. However I do like cilantro

i think that's different than implying that certain regional preferences for brazilian music are for gay pussies?

Sarah, I think it's fair to say bossa nova is "soft sounding". It's dumb to say tropicália is, much like it's dumb to categorize it as "Brazilian psych". It's not taste I'm being snarky about here, it's the dismissiveness.

xpost

ricky ricardo played straight mambo, no? too early for boogaloo I think.

― Daniel_Rf

yeah now that you mention it i think i just mix up "boogaloo" and "babalu"

first time i heard boogaloo was when bob dylan played "why is woody sad?" by bobby pauneto on his radio show, he said he thought it sounded like a song-poem. song-poems are probably the only genre with a worse hit rate than private press singer/songwriter...

"dark smooth jazz" is probably like... i mean my favorite record of the year so far is the one that mixes progged out weather channel smooth jazz with death metal vocals. at least i'm assuming there's only one record this year like that, i'm probably wrong on that. but i bet you... wait, hold on, "dark smooth jazz", isn't that just like Bohren und der Club of Gore? god i forgot those guys existed

boogaloo is early (mid 60s?) joe bataan, ray baretto, eddie palmieri, harvey averne, joe cuba, tito puente, sabu martinez, willie bobo, etc etc

all of these artists get folded into salsa in the late 70s, how i break it down in my head is if they’re wearing mod suits, playing in small combos and singing in english (“whoa whoa, we got latin soul!!”) then it’s boogaloo, once they start wearing disco suits and doing 15 minute jams with huge groups and singing primarily in spanish etc then it’s salsa

Tropicalia started in Bahia ffs... oof ILM, why did i ever come back sadlol. stirmonster otm...

Not the one that mixes yacht rock songwriting/singing with death metal drumming?

xp

My main reference for boogaloo is how it got folded into hard bop and soul jazz in search of hits, ie Lee Morgan's "The Sidewinder" being the big one, but there seemed to be a period in the late '60s where every jazz record had to have a boogaloo tune. And the drummers basically approached it like a funky bossa nova.

I don't have beef with any of these but if I had to pick one... industrial/noise is probably the one where I'm least curious at this point in my life to acquire a deeper familiarity.

i think that's different than implying that certain regional preferences for brazilian music are for gay pussies?

― budo jeru

vanguarda paulista: soft music for gay pussies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-W5wlk8QsI

oof ILM, why did i ever come back sadlol. stirmonster otm...

― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 18 May 2023 18:56 (two minutes ago) link

for terrible hot takes???

boogaloo is early (mid 60s?) joe bataan, ray baretto, eddie palmieri, harvey averne, joe cuba, tito puente, sabu martinez, willie bobo, etc etc

Exactly. It's a specifically New York music, too, blending Latin rhythms and horn styles with soul, R&B, early funk and even rock 'n' roll and doo-wop. The evolution from bugalu to salsa is something I wrote about last year.

FTR, although there's a lot of Brazilian music I don't like, there's a lot that I do like, and for some reason a couple of different editors think I know a fair amount about it, so I've been able to write about it at some length in the past few years for The Wire and Bandcamp Daily, interviewing Flora Purim and Hermeto Pascoal and reviewing a lot of the weirder albums from Azymuth members and whatnot. And I interviewed one of the brothers from Os Mutantes about 15 years ago. Just to say that I'm not a total ignoramus when it comes to this shit — I just have preferences.

Another preference I have is that I would prefer not to listen to Bill Evans if possible. Sorry!

re: hard bop, I often think of an particular exchange between OP* and a certain JAPANESE author buying dozens of hard bop LPs from him. I really don't know why tbqh... but anyways when I saw said author a few days later I asked him about hard bop and he said at the cafe he owned he had over 10k LPs for customers to choose from and he wanted to have options to even the most picky/prickly clientele.

*<3u iaîn

Not the one that mixes yacht rock songwriting/singing with death metal drumming?

xp

― Random Restaurateur (Jordan)

i can't say for sure we're not talking about the same record!

xp wow way to JAZZ KISSA AND TELL

Another preference I have is that I would prefer not to listen to Bill Evans if possible. Sorry!

― but also fuck you (unperson)

it wasn't a universal thing. i guess i'd say i'd be genuinely curious to hear from someone who likes ryo fukui but has heard and doesn't like bill evans as to what they think fukui has that evans doesn't!

Cilantro-swing is my favorite genre

I'm not familiar with Fukui at all, but I generally don't have much use for that nodding-out/don't-wake-the-baby style of jazz piano... put your whole forearm into it, I say!

what they think fukui has that evans doesn't!

Obscurity?

my deep apologies to the genre of Tropicalia, clearly my uninformed vote in this ilx poll has caused great harm to so many

― sarahell, Thursday, 18 May 2023 bookmarkflaglink

Thank you

Not the one that mixes yacht rock songwriting/singing with death metal drumming?

xp

― Random Restaurateur (Jordan)

i can't say for sure we're not talking about the same record!

Ok, I have a very clear memory of listening to this record online (and I think posting it somewhere to ILM), but now I can't find it anywhere and it's making me think I hallucinated it. I think Greg Fox was on drums???

Tropicalia today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXX6L_fXuzk

Just to say that I'm not a total ignoramus when it comes to this shit

fair enough. i have been to Brazil many times, heard lots and lots of Brazilian music from all eras, collaborated on music with, and then supported Os Mutantes and helped run a Brazilian reissue label, but would still consider myself pretty much a total ignoaramus simply by nature of the depth and volume of music that has been made and released there, which is truly breathtaking.

hard bop is great!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b7/Hard_Bop_%28album%29.jpg

music is pretty great.