Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2023

IIRC Christgau and Greil Marcus were among the first to be approached about joining the nominating committee but refused to join - then proceeded to complain and criticize who got in and who didn't to this very day.

https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/rock/fame-95.php

I've never read that, looks interesting. Marcus has written about his own change of heart on the HOF.

Wilco, the Flaming Lips (both actually old but they peaked in the '00s), the Strokes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, LCD Soundsystem, TV on the Radio

Wilco seems likeliest of this lot, simply because they've been around for a long time and keep putting out music that's generally well-respected. I don't really have a good sense of the Lips' reputation these days. Maybe they get in, but not for a long time. For as exciting as the Strokes, YYYs, and TVOTR were for a few years in the 2000s, they all seem too much like flashes in the pan now. I guess maybe the Strokes have a shot for having put out a single major album that represented a scene. LCD Soundsystem might have a better shot these days, if only because James Murphy has done a lot to burnish its reputation through the well-publicized farewell tour, documentary, comeback, etc.

Honestly, if we're talking 21st century rock bands, you probably can't count Coldplay and the Killers.

Coldplay will definitely get in. For a band that's as widely hated as Coldplay, 1) even this far into their career, they sell out not only arenas but STADIUMS - I saw firsthand when my partner (a huge fan) wanted to go see them at MetLife and I was like JFC Coldplay is this popular even now? 2) they're widely beloved in the rock and pop world. U2 and R.E.M. always went to them for advice when recording their albums (which they did indeed take), Jay-Z and Beyoncé are fans and went to the show I was at, Kanye West liked them enough to make Chris Martin a prominent guest star on Graduation, Frank Ocean sampled them, and Jay-Z, Rihanna and BTS all recorded hits with them. Hell SPRINGSTEEN was a surprise guest at the same show I attended...if I knew nothing about their music but read all this, I'd probably buy a few albums before I even tried them out.

I can't say I ever put them on before my partner came along, but objectively, I'd rather listen to Coldplay's Greatest Hits (if it existed) over the Eagles' Their Greatest Hits (1971–1975) any day.

Tool and System of a Down are more popular and maybe even better than most of these bands we’re talking about but critics hate them.

Like Tool and System of a Down can outsell any of these bands but they stay not getting the magazine covers and critics lists placement and RRHOF nods because poor white ppl listen to metal and rich white ppl listen to indie rock and rich white ppl stay running everything. Same reason Elvis Costello gets in 11 years before Rush.

Muse, Limp Bizkit, Smash Mouth, Matchbox 20, Paramore, Maroon 5, they’re all getting in sooner or later.

And it would have been such an easy layup for all the legacy rock media outlets to pivot from “Pearl Jam is our classic rock” to “Deftones is our classic rock” five years ago but everyone found different ways of ignoring an easy goal

It’s so wildly dumb that we (self included) get into an annual conversation about predicting the taste of a bunch of geriatric no-nothings for who gets to be in some arbitrary-yet-deeply-guarded list of famous people

I feel like Cyndi will get there. But the last couple years have sewn Eurythmics, Pat Benatar, Duran Duran, and Go-Gos, Lionel Richie, Janet Jackson, the Cars, and The Cure, so maybe they're pressing pause on early 80s pop for a bit.

the below is from this thread a few months ago… re: the booby/back door prizes awarded this year to Chaka Khan, Link Wray and Al Kooper (it is very odd that Kooper's admirers/pals on the nom committee couldn't make him happen until now)… expect Wyman's update to his most often banal ranking in Vulture in the next couple of days, in which he will huff and puff that George Micheal is a fluffy pop artist, rather like similar admonishments re: Jran Jran and Depeche Mode…

from what I can know about him based on his work, writing style etc etc, I dislike Bill Wyman. He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK, don't seem to understand anything beyond that, and when they try to present an understanding of hip-hop or pop music or anything else, appear very "HELLO FELLOW KIDS" and seem to be unduly influenced by Dave marsh… every time the RRhoF ceremony comes and goes, he updates his own ranking of the most to least worthy inductees, and his views are most often asinine and banal: if he was a poster here and presented his views as such in an unvarnished manner, he would be roundly jeered…

but he made an excellent point in the last such update: instead of the disingenous backdoor "early influences" and "excellence in music" booby prizes, the nominating committee should just come out and say "we are the nominating committee, and we are putting these two artists/acts in, and that's it, no voting, they're going in." The electorate —older bizzers, former alt paper lifers and other over 50s who truly care about voting and jealously guard their ability to do so— are never going to give the committee the results they (or most ILMniks, for that matter) want… doing so would not violate any principle or any such thing…

I'm also told by someone who should know that the journo/bizzers on the nominating committee, particularly the older people in their 60s/70s , are intimidated by Morello, Grohl and Questlove, like "geez, these guys are real musicians, and we're nerds who've created nothing or suits who've created nothing good, we should do what they say"; which is why Morello can push Priest in through the back door, and will surely try to do the same with Maiden…

RRHOF nods because poor white ppl listen to metal and rich white ppl listen to indie rock

this feels like maybe a total bullshit generalization idk

re Coldplay

U2 and R.E.M. always went to them for advice when recording their albums

STIPE: "Hey Chris, we can't quite decide whether to call the album 'Fables of the Reconstruction' or 'Reconstruction of the Fables.' What do you think?"

MARTIN: "What? I don't know who you are, and also I'm only 7 years old."

they went to 3-year-old martin for lyrical advice on murmur

Maiden is a global stadium-sized band, if they get in it's hardly through a back door?

they went to 3-year-old martin for lyrical advice on murmur

Evidently. "Gumby in...Gumby in...Gumby into town..."

Lol

Hah, yeah, "always went to them" isn't exactly accurate.

Re: Wyman, I double-checked to be sure, but he actually listed George Michael as one of the major omissions from the HOF when he first wrote that article. To be fair it doesn't mean he's personally a fan, but I guess that'll be clear when he updates it.

DeRogatis is definitely a "rockist" - it's embarrassing how often he's trashed or dismissed artists from Missy Elliott to Kendrick Lamar on very dubious grounds, only to completely reverse himself a few years later without a word of what he used to think.

Here's the earliest Missy Elliott review that came up in the Sun-Times article:

While Missy Elliott wowed the music industry and the pop and hip-hop worlds with her 1997 debut "Supa Dupa Fly," her tough-talking female gangsta persona struck me as a caricature of genuinely tough and multidimensional women such as Queen Latifah and Yo-Yo. Elliott amplified the attitude, but dropped the substance, creating a straight-faced alternative to Lil' Kim or Foxy Brown. And then she was universally hailed for this dubious accomplishment.

On her second disc, the chinks in her armor are obvious. Much as she claims she's in control of her life, art and business, producer Timbaland is the loudest voice here; his poppy, riff-crazed musical flavor is not a particularly inspired or original one. Factor in the wealth of cameos (by Da Brat, Eminem, Redman, Aaliyah and others) and you'll find yourself asking: Where the heck is Missy Elliott on this Missy Elliott album?

She pops up here and there, asking such charming questions as: "Would you still be in love, baby, if I cut your throat?" It's all tired posturing_empowering only in the sense that it proves that women rappers can be just as empty-headed as their male counterparts.

By 2005, he's praising Elliott and Timbaland as "one of the most groundbreaking pairings in hip-hop history."

Having said that, I don't think Greg Kot's in the same boat, mainly because it was his arguments with DeRogatis on WXRT that made it painfully obvious how doctrinal DeRogatis was about his idea of "rock." Not just a lot of hip-hop, but Dionne Warwick or anything country beyond Johnny Cash would be a point of contention. It was amusing considering how the show's intro emphasized that Kot was the ROCK critic for the Tribune and DeRogatis was the POP critic for the Sun-Times. The one phrase that stuck out for me was when DeRogatis dismissed Kot's defense of a pop-oriented recording with "I listen to ROCK & ROLL! What do YOU listen to?"

* the Sun-Times archive

haven't we been over this already?

Apparently we have - three months ago according to a quick search of this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgEGRCGO6c4

Love this

so cool!

it was a pretty great ceremony start to finish i thought

New Edition tribute to Spinners was neat

Would have enjoyed an impromptu Andrew Ridgely / jimmy page theramin jam

12 string double neck SG was a real touch of class

but also here’s my question: if he’s playing the whole song on the 12, why do you even need the twin neck? does he just prefer to do it for showoff reasons? is he no longer able to play single neck?
seems v dumb & unnecessary to me

I asked myself the same q. I think it’s because he’s comfortable with the SG and is historically associated with it.

Strange because it’s more of a 6 string thing, he even notes this in his speech

also that

Adam Levine shouldn't be allowed near George Michael songs

100%

miguel does such a beautiful version (sax aside) and then Levine drops that normcore turd like ugh please get lost dude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMIRV3ABRTg

Moby Wray

Adam Levine shouldn't be allowed near George Michael songs

Adam Levine shouldn't be allowed near George Michael songs

lol

but also here’s my question: if he’s playing the whole song on the 12, why do you even need the twin neck? does he just prefer to do it for showoff reasons? is he no longer able to play single neck?
seems v dumb & unnecessary to me

― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, November 5, 2023 2:02 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

i think it's just for people, it's the classic page thing, in the video i saw (phone video from a different angle) dudes were like yelling THE DOUBLE NECK! THE DOUBLE NECK! YES! lol it's just rock n roll fun

lmao ok fair enough but also: deep eyeroll

i mean what is zeppelin if not awesome ridiculousness?

it's also weird he's doing it on 12 string because that's way harder to play and the song as you said was a six string song

He even flubs the walkdown, typical live Jimmy

i know i know Page is parodying himself st this point but i see him so rarely now i forget what a dork he is

sidebar: the other night i saw the video for Coverdale Page’s “Take Me Me For A Little While” and Page was playing that stupid fucking guitar-harp monstrosity with a straight face … sheer nonsense lol

Oh wow, when the guitar-harp is only the fifth or sixth-most ridiculous thing in your video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-ooOf_rih0

That song is heinous but at least the solo redeems it a little. Not sure why he’s on a lift in the video

not sure why almost anything in that video tbh

Here's who is newly eligible this year, allegedly: https://futurerocklegends.com/Year/2024/

50 Cent
After Forever
Annie
Ariel Pink's Haunted Graffiti
Bad Meets Evil
BBMak
Biffy Clyro
Black Label Society
Blue Man Group
Brad Paisley
Buckcherry
Calla
The Caretaker
Caretaker
Chevelle
Chris Cornell
CKY
Clipse
Coheed & Cambria
Dido
The Distillers
Drowning Pool
Elbow
Eve
Explosions in the Sky
Fantomas
Feist
Further Seems Forever
Gogol Bordello
Halestorm
High on Fire
Hot Hot Heat
Ill Niño
Ja Rule
Jason Mraz
Jennifer Lopez
Jessica Simpson
Joey McIntyre
John Mayer
John Paul Jones
Jordan Knight
Kelis
Laura Veirs
Le Tigre
Lil Wayne
Los Hermanos
Ludacris
M. Ward
Macy Gray
Mandy Moore
Mates of State
My Morning Jacket
Neal Morse
Phil Lesh and Friends
Phoenix
Pillar
Plain White Ts
Radio 4
Rilo Kiley
Röyksopp
Shaman's Harvest
The Shins
Sick Puppies
Sisqó
Sonata Arctica
Splender
Tal Bachman
Ted Leo & the Pharmacists
Tegan & Sara
Thursday
Trapt
UnderOath
Warhorse
Watain
Westlife

Okay I am voting for Blue Man Group

tal bachman in a walk

The Caretaker?

Lil Wayne would seem to cover commercial success/critical acclaim above and beyond...A couple of weeks ago, I heard the Pet Shop Boys on consecutive days out in the world: "What Have I Done to Deserve This?" in a mall record store, then "Always on My Mind" on the radio. I used to resign myself to the idea that they'll never go in because they're more of a British institution, and the HOF has a decided American slant. I've changed my mind on that. It's silly that the PSB aren't in. Will they get a second chance at some point?

I doubt Clipse, Phoenix, Rilo Kiley or The Shins will ever get in (and I'm not even sure any of them deserve to be inducted - only Clipse has made a truly great album IMHO), but I like enough of their stuff to vote for them. (Despite the taint of Garden State, the Shins have made two, maybe three albums I genuinely like.)

don't blame me, i voted for Plain White Ts