Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2023

Just read that Missy is the first Black woman to be inducted in her first year of eligibility.

Not Aretha?

Nope -- she was eligible the first year (Little Richard, James Brown, Elvis, etc.), but wasn't inducted until the next year.

Similarly, the Supremes were eligible the same year the Beatles got in -- 1988 -- but weren't inducted until 1990 (third year of eligibility, second nomination).

I find that a bit confusing to the extent that the Beatles predate Aretha's Atlantic albums, but I guess she was recording for Columbia before they ever recorded?

Her first release, "Never Grow Old," was in 1956. Her first album, Aretha, came out on Columbia in 1961.

By the way, her Columbia records are FAR better than they're often made out to be. Some are inconsistent, and have a bit of a grab-bag feel (shoehorning in a few whimsical show tunes here and there), but the performances themselves are all wonderful. Listening to the (now sadly out-of-print) Columbia albums box, one thinks, "You know...I would like to hear her sing the phone book."

Also, re: the Supremes, the criterion is that an artist is eligible 25 years after their first commercial recording. The first Supremes single came out in 1961, which means they were eligible for the first (1986) class. So while they were inducted in their third year of eligibility, they were inducted in 1988, not 1990.

'56?! Had no idea. I didn't even realize the Columbia albums went that far back.

They don't; "Never Grow Old" was a single.

I meant '61 for the albums...Anyway, needless to say, if both the Beatles and Aretha were eligible for the first group, I think they both should have gone in.

my love for bernie taupin has been well chronicled elsewhere on this board but him going in for musical excellence is a magnificent LOL.

Yeah, I honestly don't understand what the rationale was (if any) for not inducting Aretha in 1986.

xp

Wow next you will tell be that RRHoF is both sexist and racist.

In any case, let me say again that the hall is _not_ going to induct acts in the order in which they got famous, their socioeconomic statuses, their proportional levels of fame, their skills, the degree to which they "deserve" induction. Nor is going to indict an act we just heard of a week or a month or a year ago.

I want to get in there with the first "indict" joke, but my mind doesn't work that fast.

idk if there were more Gen X voters Soundgarden would have gotten in (absolutely fuckin' should have before Rage anyway)

― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, May 3, 2023 9:27 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah it really sucks, i'm not saying a big brand name 90s alt rock band needed to get in but Soundgarden is a better band than Rage on so many levels if you were going to induct one

RATM was inevitable probably, once Foo Fighters got in the bar was pretty low for the alt-rock bigtimers. but it's insane to me they're in this soon, i don't see one area where they're not surpassed by Soundgarden, even at the most basic shallow levels HOF voters might gravitate towards.

i don't see one area where they're not surpassed by Soundgarden, even at the most basic shallow levels HOF voters might gravitate towards

rage surpasses soundgarden in the most important area of all: number of band members on the rock hall's nominating committee!

(and also, not at all coincidentally, in number of band members relentlessly making themselves visible and accessible to the music-media industrial complex.)

yeah of course...one from the Grohl playbook

Wray first appeared on the Hall’s ballot in 2014, a distant candidate whose honor would take another nine years. He has received the Musical Influence Award along with DJ Kool Herc, often called the Father of Hip-Hop.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article275007976.html#storylink=cpy

Missy Elliott, George Michael, Kate Bush, and Chaka Khan (different category) are all in, which makes this the best class in recent memory

And The Spinners! Damn right!

Happy for these, especially the Spinners who I honestly thought would never get in (but should've been in decades ago, before Hall & Oates and the O'Jays). I'm pleasantly surprised Chaka managed to get in - I also gave up on her prospects. Happy she's in, but I wish they had included Rufus - except for a couple of singles, her greatest work was easily within that group IMHO.

Better luck next year ATCQ

I thought they were a long shot, but I definitely would have voted for them without hesitation, even with the tough competition this ballot had.

Re: Aretha's Columbia work, I always though this two-CD compilation was a great survey - it's been repackaged under a different title:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen_in_Waiting:_The_Columbia_Years_(1960–1965)

Voter 1: ​I won’t be voting for (Joy Division/New Order) because this is part of my strategic vote — I think they’re going to get a lot of votes.

As if anyone needed more proof, "everyone else will vote for them" still the absolute worst voting strategy anyone can have.

Voter 1: ​I won’t be voting for (Joy Division/New Order) because this is part of my strategic vote — I think they’re going to get a lot of votes.

As if anyone needed more proof, "everyone else will vote for them" still the absolute worst voting strategy anyone can have.

yes. but also, who on god's green earth could look at the history of rock hall of fame voting and think joy division and new order were going to get a lot of votes this or any year?

rage surpasses soundgarden in the most important area of all: number of band members on the rock hall's nominating committee!

(and also, not at all coincidentally, in number of band members relentlessly making themselves visible and accessible to the music-media industrial complex.)

yeah, this is absolutely true and probably a good point why, but man Soundgarden is better in so many goddamn ways and I hoped maybe a sympathy induction for Cornell.

also I have such low respect for (most) of the voters that I 100% believe that Kate Bush never would have made it in without Stranger Things (to be clear, she absolutely deserves it, but it wouldn't have happened if the music supervisor picked another '80s song to ressurect)

...like how "Killing Moon" in Donnie Darko was a replacement for "Never Tear Us Apart"?

And "In Your Eyes" in Say Anything was originally shot with Fishbone's "Turn the Other Way" or whatever?

And "In Your Eyes" in Say Anything was originally shot with Fishbone's "Turn the Other Way" or whatever?

Wasn’t it supposed to be the Replacements’ “Within Your Reach” (which was then relegated to a brief appearance in a less momentous scene)? Either way, still proves your point.

Very happy Kate Bush got in - I thought this was her best chance and didn’t have much confidence it would happen.

Just looked it up - answer’s a bit more complicated:

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/say-anything-boombox-scene/

I'm glad of that. The way "Unsatisfied" is used in Adventureland is, I'm confident, greater than anything that would have come out of Say Anything.

“Cameron Crowe really wanted Elvis Costello to do that song,” Skye recalled in a 2018 conversation with Entertainment Weekly. “Then (Costello) saw an early screening of it and didn't want to. And we were all really bummed out.”

LOL... +1 for EC there, IMO

Yeah, Mottola’s got excellent taste.

Forgot, had Joy Division and New Order been inducted, Hook probably would have reunited with them at the ceremony. I’d be down with a cheeseball Parent Trap meets Angels in the Outfield movie where some kids try to reunite them by getting them inducted, only to have their hopes crushed…or so they think!

I have such low respect for (most) of the voters that I 100% believe that Kate Bush never would have made it in without Stranger Things (to be clear, she absolutely deserves it, but it wouldn't have happened if the music supervisor picked another '80s song to ressurect)


^^100% not even debatable

And "In Your Eyes" in Say Anything was originally shot with Fishbone's "Turn the Other Way" or whatever?

Cameron Crowe himself mentioned in a feature about the film published in Musician.

He was afraid Cusack would look like a crazed Fishbone fan.

quietly a little bummed that Cyndi Lauper didn’t make it in, but a decent crop of nominees nonetheless

and of course bummed at no Maiden obv but less surprised by that

Happy about the Spinners, surprised about Cyndi Lauper--she just seems such a perfect HOF choice. I know YMP has posted a few times about how completely arbitrary induction is, but I think she's one of the people who seems obvious on a number of fronts.

Yeah, I kind of wish you could swap out every elected inductee from last year (except Parton) and replace them with every nominee that didn't make it this year.

Torn between Cyndi Lauper and The White Stripes for who I'm most surprised didn't get in

Cyndi Lauper is definitely a gross oversight.

But do The White Stripes have any lasting stature beyond Williamsburg hipster clout?

I may not be too qualified to comment cause I mostly stopped listening to new rock around 2000 but it’s hard for me to think of many rock acts from the new millennium that really will ever qualify to be inducted. Eventually they’ll have to move away from rock or just continually lower their standards.

But do The White Stripes have any lasting stature beyond Williamsburg hipster clout?

I don't even like them, but have you ever attended a major league sporting event in the US? If you have, you have heard "Seven Nation Army" played over the stadium/arena PA.

No, I haven’t. But yeah that one song ok.

We should all just relax, because eventually Lil Nas X, Pantera, Bananarama, Nickelback, Steel Pulse, Roxette, Milli Vanilli, Cutting Crew, Tears for Fears, Taj Mahal, and the Spice Girls will all be in there. Even if the sequence doesn't make any rational sense.

I’m ride til I die team Steel Pulse. But again not much to draw on from the new millennium is there. I hope one day Superpitcher too will gain the recognition he deserves. Totally unironically.

Jesus Jones inducted in 20 years

Actually going on what ILM taught me I’m thinking Carl Craig was the top artist of the 00’s. ILM had much better taste back then didn’t it, or did I just manage to tune out all the knee jerk poptimist crap.

I love the White Stripes - I don't think Jack White has made a great album since his solo debut in 2012 and he still packs arenas ffs. (I went to his show at Barclays last year.) They'll get in eventually.

Otherwise, in terms of latter day acts, everyone I can think of will probably get in like fifteen or twenty years after they're eligible, maybe even more: Wilco, the Flaming Lips (both actually old but they peaked in the '00s), the Strokes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, LCD Soundsystem, TV on the Radio...the only 21st century rock act that would've got a quick induction IMHO is Arcade Fire, but that's not going to happen any more. Otherwise all the obvious 21st century predictions are pretty much hip-hop and pop acts.

My favourite band of the century, Wussy, has approximately a 1% chance at the moment.

They need to befriend the nominating committee and butter them up for an "Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence" induction.

40 years ago they would have had a very powerful advocate in Christgau, but I believe his influence has waned somewhat.

IIRC Christgau and Greil Marcus were among the first to be approached about joining the nominating committee but refused to join - then proceeded to complain and criticize who got in and who didn't to this very day.

https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/rock/fame-95.php

I've never read that, looks interesting. Marcus has written about his own change of heart on the HOF.

Wilco, the Flaming Lips (both actually old but they peaked in the '00s), the Strokes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, LCD Soundsystem, TV on the Radio

Wilco seems likeliest of this lot, simply because they've been around for a long time and keep putting out music that's generally well-respected. I don't really have a good sense of the Lips' reputation these days. Maybe they get in, but not for a long time. For as exciting as the Strokes, YYYs, and TVOTR were for a few years in the 2000s, they all seem too much like flashes in the pan now. I guess maybe the Strokes have a shot for having put out a single major album that represented a scene. LCD Soundsystem might have a better shot these days, if only because James Murphy has done a lot to burnish its reputation through the well-publicized farewell tour, documentary, comeback, etc.

Honestly, if we're talking 21st century rock bands, you probably can't count Coldplay and the Killers.

Coldplay will definitely get in. For a band that's as widely hated as Coldplay, 1) even this far into their career, they sell out not only arenas but STADIUMS - I saw firsthand when my partner (a huge fan) wanted to go see them at MetLife and I was like JFC Coldplay is this popular even now? 2) they're widely beloved in the rock and pop world. U2 and R.E.M. always went to them for advice when recording their albums (which they did indeed take), Jay-Z and Beyoncé are fans and went to the show I was at, Kanye West liked them enough to make Chris Martin a prominent guest star on Graduation, Frank Ocean sampled them, and Jay-Z, Rihanna and BTS all recorded hits with them. Hell SPRINGSTEEN was a surprise guest at the same show I attended...if I knew nothing about their music but read all this, I'd probably buy a few albums before I even tried them out.

I can't say I ever put them on before my partner came along, but objectively, I'd rather listen to Coldplay's Greatest Hits (if it existed) over the Eagles' Their Greatest Hits (1971–1975) any day.

Tool and System of a Down are more popular and maybe even better than most of these bands we’re talking about but critics hate them.

Like Tool and System of a Down can outsell any of these bands but they stay not getting the magazine covers and critics lists placement and RRHOF nods because poor white ppl listen to metal and rich white ppl listen to indie rock and rich white ppl stay running everything. Same reason Elvis Costello gets in 11 years before Rush.

Muse, Limp Bizkit, Smash Mouth, Matchbox 20, Paramore, Maroon 5, they’re all getting in sooner or later.

And it would have been such an easy layup for all the legacy rock media outlets to pivot from “Pearl Jam is our classic rock” to “Deftones is our classic rock” five years ago but everyone found different ways of ignoring an easy goal

It’s so wildly dumb that we (self included) get into an annual conversation about predicting the taste of a bunch of geriatric no-nothings for who gets to be in some arbitrary-yet-deeply-guarded list of famous people