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I feel like it is the U2 record for people who like Achtung Baby but think that one is too obvious a choice. So not a challops at this point to say it is the best.

The Lubitsch Touchscreen (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 24 April 2023 13:26 (one year ago) link

go to a U2 concert, interview 1000 fans at random I bet you won't get one who says Zooropa

I don't know who constitutes a "real" U2 fan these days, but I think of my sister, who gave me her copy of Zooropa, went to the The Joshua Tree album tour in 2017, and coughs slightly when I mention how much I love the album she gave away.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 April 2023 13:31 (one year ago) link

Is it the least Bono U2 album? Johnny Cash sings a song, Edge sings a song, Eno's vocals do a lot of the work in "Lemon." You have to go to Passengers to get farther from him, but it has "Elvis Ate America" which is such a heavy dose of Bono.

Cow_Art, Monday, 24 April 2023 13:36 (one year ago) link

My controversial (?) opinion is that Achtung was a transitional record, the usual U2 schtick (itself not a bad thing) but with some slightly-unusual (for U2) arrangements. Arguably, their "Night & Day" cover, which preceded Acthung by a year, took more risks -- it sounded to me far less like what one expected from U2 than anything on Achtung. And Zooropa was the much fuller realization of what Achtung hinted at.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 24 April 2023 13:38 (one year ago) link

Even if no actual concertgoing fans would say it's the best, there's probably a substantial number of ILX-type appreciators who would. (xp!)

The Lubitsch Touchscreen (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 24 April 2023 13:39 (one year ago) link

My controversial (?) opinion is that Achtung was a transitional record, the usual U2 schtick (itself not a bad thing) but with some slightly-unusual (for U2) arrangements. Arguably, their "Night & Day" cover, which preceded Acthung by a year, took more risks -- it sounded to me far less like what one expected from U2 than anything on Achtung. And Zooropa was the much fuller realization of what Achtung hinted at.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat)

No matter what Bono says now, he and the band thought as much at the time (as quoted in Bill Flanagan's book).

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 April 2023 13:55 (one year ago) link

how is, for example "Zooropa" the song more adventurous than "Zoo Station" other than feeling kind of half written?

The sampled vocals and radio effects, the leisurely opening crawl a la "Station to Station."

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 April 2023 14:20 (one year ago) link

It contains fewer of the U2 signifiers/cliches that we generally associate with them. It's got that 2-minute burbling buildup, a sharp tempo shift, the arrangement is more spare/claustrophobic than "Zoo Station," and there's no obvious/anthemic chorus.

Or, more concisely, what Alfred said.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 24 April 2023 14:25 (one year ago) link

eh I guess

I'm listening to this now and it's a lot less out there than I remember. "Babyface" very standard issue stuff with some production touches, the charge being leveled against Achtung. the chorus is so Midwestern bar band.

I didn't expect a song as pop and sarcastic as "Babyface" on a U2 album either. The sequencing is excellent: from there it's a comfortable slide into the electro-inflected grooves of Side One.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 April 2023 14:27 (one year ago) link

uncle!

I've been called worse on Saturday nights.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 April 2023 14:30 (one year ago) link

It's a good call about 'night & day' - an unusual record for them, at the time.

And about ZOOROPA containing a bit less Bono Vox than usual.

the pinefox, Monday, 24 April 2023 14:31 (one year ago) link

Alfred otm re: the Zooropa sequencing. "Lemon" would be jarring as the opening (or even just the second) track, but by the time it arrives, we're ready.

"Stay" and "The First Time" are the only songs on Zooropa that could have conceivably appeared on an earlier U2 record -- with minor changes to the arrangements -- but they still sound perfectly at home here.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 24 April 2023 14:32 (one year ago) link

It's a good call about 'night & day' - an unusual record for them, at the time.

It was downright baffling, at least for US listeners. The last big radio hit here was "Angel of Harlem," and "Night and Day" couldn't have been more of a 180.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 24 April 2023 14:34 (one year ago) link

I'll post what I posted on the U2 thread here too:

They tricked themselves eventually into thinking they'd been a rock band and that's what everyone wanted from them, but even their most "rock" albums were more devoted to the groove than any cliches of rock. Which isn't to say the argument about AB doesn't work, it's maybe correct, but I don't think the whole dance/ultramodern aspect was overstated. I do think it's fair to suggest that their image as a serious rock band obscured their true talents, ones already on display before that. There was a reason imo the '90s were so creatively good for them, right down to side projects and soundtrack songs.

I'd amend to say ambient music could be added to the groove part up there.

omar little, Monday, 24 April 2023 14:39 (one year ago) link

Eno was the one who insisted on the inclusion of "The First One," which floored the band.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 April 2023 14:39 (one year ago) link

er, "The First Time" too

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 April 2023 14:40 (one year ago) link

zooropa is the most interesting u2 album at the very least

can make a case for achtung baby as their best due to it being a little more consistent etc. but i'd still probably take zooropa

ufo, Monday, 24 April 2023 14:52 (one year ago) link

Gotta believe Eno's seemingly more involved participation in much of No Line on the Horizon is why imo the peaks of that LP are almost a '90s throwback (not "get on your boots" and a couple others obv)

omar little, Monday, 24 April 2023 14:53 (one year ago) link

i'd be completely okay with erasing the existence of all things "grunge." really just complete trash tbh.

my beard exists more than i do. (Austin), Sunday, 7 May 2023 04:37 (one year ago) link

tell us what you know about “grunge” then.

Goose Bigelow, Fowl Gigolo (the table is the table), Sunday, 7 May 2023 11:32 (one year ago) link

frankly anyone posting “get rid of (entire genre of music)” should be prepared to say why.

Goose Bigelow, Fowl Gigolo (the table is the table), Sunday, 7 May 2023 11:36 (one year ago) link

Do you like Green River? How about the Melvins? What about Mudhoney? or the bands often listed as inspiration to these groups, like Scratch Acid, the Buttholes, Fang, or Black Flag? The Pixies?

if it’s just about hating Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, whatever, have at it, but the nebulousness of the term “grunge” make your words fighting ones, afaic.

Goose Bigelow, Fowl Gigolo (the table is the table), Sunday, 7 May 2023 11:39 (one year ago) link

yeah i hate all that bullshit, table. it's all very trash. sorry?

why? idk, lack of dynamics, tunnel vision syndrome, distaste for diversity. it all seems like easy listening for meglomaniacs and narcissists. i understand not everything needs to be a melting pot, but enough is enough with dudes chugging shittily away at guitars and talking about pseudo philosophy.

90s smooth jazz offers more choices afaict.

my beard exists more than i do. (Austin), Sunday, 7 May 2023 16:18 (one year ago) link

didn't we already get rid of grunge actual 25 years ago?

i totally get where Austin is coming from. most of my musical tastes and interests can be traced quite neatly back to becoming an obsessive music fan at the height of grunge, and *hating* grunge.

like, we obviously had to get rid of white dudes chugging shittily away at guitars because grunge turned into the dumbest thing ever made. but rock and pop used to be cross-pollinating currents at one time, right? did we fuck up?

No, 𝘐'𝘮 Breathless! (Deflatormouse), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:11 (one year ago) link

It was easy to avoid whatever grunge was if you didn't have MTV. Thst stuff barely grazed the pop chart.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:13 (one year ago) link

Yeah I don’t totally get this historical revision that grunge was mega mainstream… it was called alternative radio, folks

brimstead, Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:15 (one year ago) link

nothing else to offer, but this was also me-

most of my musical tastes and interests can be traced quite neatly back to becoming an obsessive music fan at the height of grunge, and *hating* grunge.

not everything is for everyone, but it was only (and still is) the grunge fans who project/ed the idea that "THIS MUSIC MATTERS" and i just didn't "get it man."

(meanwhile, i got absolutely ridiculed for being into "shook ones" and outkast. hate to say i was right all along, but uhh.)

my beard exists more than i do. (Austin), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:22 (one year ago) link

I dunno Pearl Jam Ten sold 13 million, The Chronic sold 5.7

also MTV was a part of mainstream teen pop culture, I don't care if anyone likes grunge but this seems like a particularly silly argument

there were also like tons of kids who were listening to both!

Also “historical revision that grunge was mega mainstream” seems to be in response to something nobody said

michel goindry (wins), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:26 (one year ago) link

Grunge was great at its best, like any other genre. Some genuine classic groups and albums and musicians. Been revisiting a bunch of it lately. Imo a lot of it sounds so much better even now.

omar little, Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:27 (one year ago) link

yeah sorry "historical revision" is wrong. tbf i can't think of anything more boring than invoking chart positions or w/e but def remember hearing Alice in Chains on z100. xxp

No, 𝘐'𝘮 Breathless! (Deflatormouse), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:29 (one year ago) link

By "pop charts" I meant "Billboard top 40." Sorry.

I sympathize with Austin because I discovered Pulp in what I thought was a "reaction" to grunge despite liking a lot of Soundgarden and later Pearl Jam.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:30 (one year ago) link

Austin, I think yr wrong, and frankly cloaking yr distaste in contemporary language of “wokeness” doesn’t make your point any stronger, sorry.

Also expect pushback since what you said is controversial.

Goose Bigelow, Fowl Gigolo (the table is the table), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:33 (one year ago) link

Amazing how people who like the worst music in the world will get up in a huff about a great band like Green River

Goose Bigelow, Fowl Gigolo (the table is the table), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:34 (one year ago) link

Also “historical revision that grunge was mega mainstream” seems to be in response to something nobody said


oh fuck off dude, it’s stuff that people outside of ilx have been talking about too, seriously fuck off with your police bullshit

brimstead, Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:35 (one year ago) link

so many jackoffs on this board.

brimstead, Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:35 (one year ago) link

it all seems like easy listening for meglomaniacs and narcissists

how old are you?

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:36 (one year ago) link

Nobody said this! Straw man point awarded!!!!

brimstead, Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:36 (one year ago) link

til liking smooth jazz is woke

my beard exists more than i do. (Austin), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:37 (one year ago) link

i also like smooth jazz you fucking asshole

Goose Bigelow, Fowl Gigolo (the table is the table), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:38 (one year ago) link

omar otm, like all genres there’s good and bad, which is pretty much what i said in my response before being lumped in with some strawman of a flannel-bedecked toxic racist

Goose Bigelow, Fowl Gigolo (the table is the table), Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:39 (one year ago) link

lotta post flagging itt

ian, Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:40 (one year ago) link

Amazing how people who like the worst music in the world will get up in a huff about a great band like Green River

― Goose Bigelow, Fowl Gigolo (the table is the table), Sunday, May 7, 2023 5:34 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lmao this has gotta be a joke right

ian, Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:42 (one year ago) link

WoRsT muSiC in thE WoRlDDD stfu you arrogant child

ian, Sunday, 7 May 2023 17:43 (one year ago) link


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