Post a controversial music opinion

Isn't Anything and Tremolo would be my desert island picks

Tanglewood Numbers is not only the best Silver Jews album, it’s one of the best indie rock albums of its decade… and would likely be even more highly regarded if it were someone’s debut, and not simply one more installment in a long discography.

if it gets really really bad
if it ever gets really really bad
let's not kid ourselves
it gets really really bad

I can't pick a fave Jews album, but it's def a contender and I think of it as under rated. It was the first one I heard and I was initially put off by "Punks in the Beerlight." When "Animal Shapes" rolled around I perked up.

Achtung Baby is a more ROCK lp than The Joshua Tree.

Zooropa is easily the best U2 album

All U2 albums pretty much sound like U2 albums to me. The differences between them are not as interesting to me as the similarities.

Like yes I know there are differences in style but I frankly don't care.

All U2 albums pretty much sound like U2 albums to me.

Zooropa as best U2 album ain't controversial anymore, I don't think?

No

I guess not? I assume that it is still seen as Achtung Baby's little brother. I don't think it ever got a proper reissue or anything.

But maybe it has become the U2 album for people that don't really like U2.

I feel like it is the U2 record for people who like Achtung Baby but think that one is too obvious a choice. So not a challops at this point to say it is the best.

go to a U2 concert, interview 1000 fans at random I bet you won't get one who says Zooropa

I don't know who constitutes a "real" U2 fan these days, but I think of my sister, who gave me her copy of Zooropa, went to the The Joshua Tree album tour in 2017, and coughs slightly when I mention how much I love the album she gave away.

Is it the least Bono U2 album? Johnny Cash sings a song, Edge sings a song, Eno's vocals do a lot of the work in "Lemon." You have to go to Passengers to get farther from him, but it has "Elvis Ate America" which is such a heavy dose of Bono.

My controversial (?) opinion is that Achtung was a transitional record, the usual U2 schtick (itself not a bad thing) but with some slightly-unusual (for U2) arrangements. Arguably, their "Night & Day" cover, which preceded Acthung by a year, took more risks -- it sounded to me far less like what one expected from U2 than anything on Achtung. And Zooropa was the much fuller realization of what Achtung hinted at.

Even if no actual concertgoing fans would say it's the best, there's probably a substantial number of ILX-type appreciators who would. (xp!)

My controversial (?) opinion is that Achtung was a transitional record, the usual U2 schtick (itself not a bad thing) but with some slightly-unusual (for U2) arrangements. Arguably, their "Night & Day" cover, which preceded Acthung by a year, took more risks -- it sounded to me far less like what one expected from U2 than anything on Achtung. And Zooropa was the much fuller realization of what Achtung hinted at.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat)

No matter what Bono says now, he and the band thought as much at the time (as quoted in Bill Flanagan's book).

how is, for example "Zooropa" the song more adventurous than "Zoo Station" other than feeling kind of half written?

The sampled vocals and radio effects, the leisurely opening crawl a la "Station to Station."

It contains fewer of the U2 signifiers/cliches that we generally associate with them. It's got that 2-minute burbling buildup, a sharp tempo shift, the arrangement is more spare/claustrophobic than "Zoo Station," and there's no obvious/anthemic chorus.

Or, more concisely, what Alfred said.

eh I guess

I'm listening to this now and it's a lot less out there than I remember. "Babyface" very standard issue stuff with some production touches, the charge being leveled against Achtung. the chorus is so Midwestern bar band.

I didn't expect a song as pop and sarcastic as "Babyface" on a U2 album either. The sequencing is excellent: from there it's a comfortable slide into the electro-inflected grooves of Side One.

uncle!

I've been called worse on Saturday nights.

It's a good call about 'night & day' - an unusual record for them, at the time.

And about ZOOROPA containing a bit less Bono Vox than usual.

Alfred otm re: the Zooropa sequencing. "Lemon" would be jarring as the opening (or even just the second) track, but by the time it arrives, we're ready.

"Stay" and "The First Time" are the only songs on Zooropa that could have conceivably appeared on an earlier U2 record -- with minor changes to the arrangements -- but they still sound perfectly at home here.

It's a good call about 'night & day' - an unusual record for them, at the time.

It was downright baffling, at least for US listeners. The last big radio hit here was "Angel of Harlem," and "Night and Day" couldn't have been more of a 180.

I'll post what I posted on the U2 thread here too:

They tricked themselves eventually into thinking they'd been a rock band and that's what everyone wanted from them, but even their most "rock" albums were more devoted to the groove than any cliches of rock. Which isn't to say the argument about AB doesn't work, it's maybe correct, but I don't think the whole dance/ultramodern aspect was overstated. I do think it's fair to suggest that their image as a serious rock band obscured their true talents, ones already on display before that. There was a reason imo the '90s were so creatively good for them, right down to side projects and soundtrack songs.

I'd amend to say ambient music could be added to the groove part up there.

Eno was the one who insisted on the inclusion of "The First One," which floored the band.

er, "The First Time" too

zooropa is the most interesting u2 album at the very least

can make a case for achtung baby as their best due to it being a little more consistent etc. but i'd still probably take zooropa

Gotta believe Eno's seemingly more involved participation in much of No Line on the Horizon is why imo the peaks of that LP are almost a '90s throwback (not "get on your boots" and a couple others obv)

i'd be completely okay with erasing the existence of all things "grunge." really just complete trash tbh.

tell us what you know about “grunge” then.

frankly anyone posting “get rid of (entire genre of music)” should be prepared to say why.

Do you like Green River? How about the Melvins? What about Mudhoney? or the bands often listed as inspiration to these groups, like Scratch Acid, the Buttholes, Fang, or Black Flag? The Pixies?

if it’s just about hating Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, whatever, have at it, but the nebulousness of the term “grunge” make your words fighting ones, afaic.

yeah i hate all that bullshit, table. it's all very trash. sorry?

why? idk, lack of dynamics, tunnel vision syndrome, distaste for diversity. it all seems like easy listening for meglomaniacs and narcissists. i understand not everything needs to be a melting pot, but enough is enough with dudes chugging shittily away at guitars and talking about pseudo philosophy.

90s smooth jazz offers more choices afaict.

didn't we already get rid of grunge actual 25 years ago?

i totally get where Austin is coming from. most of my musical tastes and interests can be traced quite neatly back to becoming an obsessive music fan at the height of grunge, and *hating* grunge.

like, we obviously had to get rid of white dudes chugging shittily away at guitars because grunge turned into the dumbest thing ever made. but rock and pop used to be cross-pollinating currents at one time, right? did we fuck up?

It was easy to avoid whatever grunge was if you didn't have MTV. Thst stuff barely grazed the pop chart.

Yeah I don’t totally get this historical revision that grunge was mega mainstream… it was called alternative radio, folks

nothing else to offer, but this was also me-

most of my musical tastes and interests can be traced quite neatly back to becoming an obsessive music fan at the height of grunge, and *hating* grunge.

not everything is for everyone, but it was only (and still is) the grunge fans who project/ed the idea that "THIS MUSIC MATTERS" and i just didn't "get it man."

(meanwhile, i got absolutely ridiculed for being into "shook ones" and outkast. hate to say i was right all along, but uhh.)

I dunno Pearl Jam Ten sold 13 million, The Chronic sold 5.7

also MTV was a part of mainstream teen pop culture, I don't care if anyone likes grunge but this seems like a particularly silly argument

there were also like tons of kids who were listening to both!

Also “historical revision that grunge was mega mainstream” seems to be in response to something nobody said

Grunge was great at its best, like any other genre. Some genuine classic groups and albums and musicians. Been revisiting a bunch of it lately. Imo a lot of it sounds so much better even now.

yeah sorry "historical revision" is wrong. tbf i can't think of anything more boring than invoking chart positions or w/e but def remember hearing Alice in Chains on z100. xxp

By "pop charts" I meant "Billboard top 40." Sorry.

I sympathize with Austin because I discovered Pulp in what I thought was a "reaction" to grunge despite liking a lot of Soundgarden and later Pearl Jam.

Austin, I think yr wrong, and frankly cloaking yr distaste in contemporary language of “wokeness” doesn’t make your point any stronger, sorry.

Also expect pushback since what you said is controversial.

Amazing how people who like the worst music in the world will get up in a huff about a great band like Green River