Van Halen!

xp And I saw them at the Colorado State Fairgrounds in Pueblo at the height of their success lol

Per Van Halen Rising, one of the reasons it took them forever to get signed is that everyone thought metal (or what passed the metal) was dead. VH jumpstarted its "comeback" just in time for MTV. That part of the story is where that hair metal oral history picks up.

I remember buying the first album when it came out because Dave looked like Robert Plant. I put it on and realized I'd never heard anything quite like it before. It didn't sound like metal, but it also didn't sound like much else.

I would have loved to see them open up for (and mop the floor with) Sabbath.

Yeah they had the attack of metal but not the viscosity. it's like they freed it from the sludge.

They were just so much fun, none of that vein of evil that many (most?) metal bands had running through them. They formed as a party band and stayed that way.

DLR doing mad dash big expressionistic brush strokes, all those breathless exultations, meaning beyond language,

The weirdest aspect of the Van Halen saga, from start to (first) finish, is all the people shit talking DLR as a terrible singer. Like, by what standard? By the standard of all the silly operatic metal castrati? Sammy is a great singer, but he is proof positive that that means next to nothing compared to what Roth brought.

Like, live, sure, I can imagine his relative limitations might have been more apparent, and of course he made up for it with all his energy. But it's not like you can hear him doing the splits in the studio, and all those records still rule.

Diamond Dave was one of the great front men of the era. I completely lost interest when Hagar replaced him. I still can't listen to those albums.

They're extra dire when you consider Sammy was largely brought on to give their songwriting a boost.

iirc, the “party band” tag became something of an Achilles heel for Eddie. He really wanted VH to be the next Zeppelin, but Dave’s constant “HOW’S EVERYBODY DOIN’ TONIGHT?” and his solo EP destroyed (in Eddie’s view) any deep mystery that might elevate the band to Zep levels.

(Just want to point out that I love DLR VH, and DLR’s exhortations re: the audiences’ feelings about how they felt on a particular evening were both welcome and, significantly, the antithesis of, say, Kiss’s stiff, unswinging, calculated YOU WILL BE ENTERTAINED BY US directives.)

Eddie's categorical mistake was that Zeppelin was also, in fact, a party band.

That Rising book really underscored that were it not for Dave the Van Halen brothers would have stuck to pretty generic boogie and butt rock, and possibly just faded away. They lacked the spark, or were too shy or naive, and it took Dave to admonish them into getting the crowd dancing.

They're extra dire when you consider Sammy was largely brought on to give their songwriting a boost.

― Josh in Chicago,

I thought his ability to play more than credible second guitar was a factor too?

That as well, but obviously EVH had been doing fine by himself.

I mention it only because during live clips I've seen recorded in 1986-1987 EVH is serious about playing synths, which forced Hagar to play guitar.

I think the backlog of demos and ideas was running low, exacerbated by hard drinking. Iirc even stuff like the Right Now piano part had been sitting around for years, but EVH was having trouble actually finishing anything, which is where Sammy came in.

He came to resemble Eddie, the mascot of Iron Maiden, more than the young man in the videos above.

Eddie wanted Patty Smyth to replace DLR as the lead singer of VH, but she declined. That might've ruled. I remember Smyth saying in an interview that she doesn't regret turning down the offer because if she had said yes, she never would have written 'Baby Sometimes Love Just Ain't Enough'. We might have been spared that tune and Sammy Hagar, plus treated to a VH mach II fronted by Patty Smyth.

DLR's first 2 solo albums with Steve Vai >>>>>>>>> all the Van Hagar stuff.

This is not the Quiet Riot of 1983, more when they were rival cover bands playing parties in the mid 70s.

Lots of those 80s metal bands had literally been around for over a decade as cover bands. An interesting flip to how that scene worked is in the Twisted Sister documentary, which they were doing for well over a decade before they got a record deal.

also 67% of all hair metal dudes had been in the band London at some point

The early part of that Twisted Sister documentary was really interesting talking about the cover band scene of the early mid 70s.

All those guys in Motley Crue, Dokken, GNR, Ratt, Wasp etc had earlier bands same time as VH and Quiet Riot.

This is the Twisted Sister movie. I thought the first part about the East Coast cover band was interesting.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Are_Twisted_Fucking_Sister!

twisted sister doc is really good imo

Here's what your bassist is supposed to sound like when your band doesn't have a rhythm guitar player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu8RpcChZrw

Renoff made a spotify playlist comprised of every song VH is known to have played before Ostin and Templeman came calling (I deleted Spotify so I don't have a link) … indeed, Edward and Alex's interest were exclusively in shit-hot licks "player's music," and didn't much like it when DLR brought in Kool & the gang, Isleys and JB as stuff that girls like to dance to… so there is Queen, Kiss, Grand Funk, Aerosmith, ZZ top, Santana, as well as the Black Sabbath and Cream selections that the brothers liked… Eddie also liked Tommy Bolin, so they played whatever the monster shuffle song on Spectrum is called… he also liked a lot of 70s hard rock with hot licks bands that are not well known, like a band called Stray Dog? Anyone? Almost as soon as VH hit, Eddie lost interest in what was going on in music, apart from Holdsworth, and he did like Nirvana (upon meeting KC, he drunkenly begged "please let me play with you! Let me play the Mexican's guitar!" —more accurately, the german/mexican's guitar). He many many times said that the last record that meant anything to him was Peter Gabriel's So.

Guitar mag journalists who interacted with Eddie know that it isn't LZ that he emulated; it was Clapton (although he admitted that his playing and composing resembled Page more). Despite being the undisputed titan of the guitar from 1978-1992, upon whom several industries depended, he was insecure…Clapton was classy and had the respect of the music industry establishment that EVH craved: he distanced himself from the Sunset Strip/ hair metal milieu as quickly as he could… when Sammy comes into the band, they presented themselves sartorially as little like Ratt and the Crue and all the acts they had set the table for as possible…whereas Kiss and Aerosmith were eager to associate with the bands they had inspired alongside VH. Similarly, DLR went along with the hair-metal movement with Eat em and Smile through 91, probly out of fealty to market based rationales more than pride in the rock idiom he, Los Bros VH, Kiss and Aerosmith had more or less created…at the same time, he was always intellectually engaged and curious in not not only music but all kinds of experiences, far more than the incurious Los Bros VH.

Also: Sammy is often blamed for the occasionally ponderous synth-heavy likes of "Love walks In" or "When it's Love." but the driver of that shit was Eddie. He wanted to show that he was more more sophisticated and classy than the acts he had inspired, and Sammy, who would be more sympathetic to such aims than DLR would (scoffing in ways that drove EVH nuts), obliged.

I love his love for all that unfashionable boogie heavy rock stuff like Cactus, Ten Years After, Beck, Bogart & Appice etc

"Hot for Teacher" is totally based on that stuff

i don't think anyone is blaming Sammy for the synth-heavy ballads, we're blaming him for, like, the lyrics to Poundcake.

very impressive imo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEK-ZikFACc

He many many times said that the last record that meant anything to him was Peter Gabriel's So.

Also: Sammy is often blamed for the occasionally ponderous synth-heavy likes of "Love walks In" or "When it's Love." but the driver of that shit was Eddie. He wanted to show that he was more more sophisticated and classy than the acts he had inspired,

it brought "Jump" into this dark planet of ours, it was all worth it

Come on, Dave, give me a break

Have you seen Junior's grades?

I would think there’s a lot of Ritchie Blackmore in EVH’s playing, so somewhat surprised he hasn’t come up itt, though I guess Deep Purple is represented by Tommy Bolin

That book reveals that he didn't start tapping or using a whammy until maybe 6 months before the first album. That's pretty crazy. If you listen to bootlegs from the early years, he was always a good guitarist but kind of anonymous in that hard rock/boogie vein. There's a great story, though, where they nab a gig opening for UFO, and he completely humiliates a worn out Michael Schenker.

I legit wonder if J Mascis is a secretly a big EVH fan - certainly Eddie never had quite the pedalboard J has, but there’s something in his attack/amplification/style, esp. Sire years to present, that reminds me so much of W&CF/FW EVH.

Stray Dog I know from one of those big Hipgnosis album cover books

https://www.discogs.com/master/176425-Stray-Dog-While-Youre-Down-There

One for the “horrible album titles” thread

every so often I'd read a Van Halen interview and Eddie would constantly say he had to relearn the parts for the album because he'd already forgotten what he played and how to play it (riffs, solos, everything), but that he could relearn most everything quickly by ear.

as a dude who basically had to spend inordinate amounts of time learning to play anything I was kinda like "fuk uuuu". but is that kind of normal for a lot of heavily acclaimed guitar players, this ability to pick up a ton of music or relearn music by ear fast? I often see stories where bands are on tour, someone gets sick/hurt or whatever and they quickly identify a replacement, a guitar tech, or a friend from another band ,etc, and it's like in a day or two they suddenly know all the music.

A couple of weeks a go a friend of mine was given iirc less than 24-hours notice to sub for Robyn Hitchcock's bassist, who had caught covid. She said it was super stressful but was able to chart it out for herself more or less OK with minor mess-ups. Long story short, pros gonna pro.

But I've heard the same thing about EVH as with, I dunno, Peter Buck. I think it comes back pretty quickly. It's surely easier for EVH to re-learn his idiosyncratic parts than for someone else to come in and do it, though.

If you want a slight boost of self-esteem, Google Eddie Van Halen's guest appearance with Simon and Garfunkel at one of those Bridge benefit shows. whether it's because he was in the wrong key, different tuning, or simply unrehearsed, he completely screws up a solo to "Sound of Silence." Even EVH is human.

There's a notorious video from one of the early 2009 reunion gigs with DLR where the "Jump" synth track is played back at the wrong speed and EVH starts making his own "shreds" video.

I've been a citizen of the San Gabriel Valley for seven years now, and "Van Halen played my backyard!" is absolutely our local version of "George Washington slept here." Everyone who bookmarks this thread should read Renoff's book - it's a great book about Los Angeles. So much of what has been documented about 1970s LA follows Laurel Canyon, punks, etc. but zero about the suburbs, exurbs, and other cultural wastelands that the overground snooted at. The story about a biker getting stabbed to death right in front of the band during a gig at Walter Mitty's in Pomona (a notorious bar right across the street from the General Dynamics plant that built Atlas ICBMs) is straight out of a Mike Davis book.

Deflatormouse OTM on VH as anti-depressant. Been in bad shape the last few weeks and kinda dug out from it by driving around and listening to all of the Van Halen episodes of the Sunset Sound podcast. The three 2020 episodes with Brian Kehew is the closest you'll get to a Classic Album on the first album (DLR's Zolar X impersonation is hilarious).

Listening to VH II rn. Alex totally killing "Outta Love Again"

I haven't read the book on VH's earliest days, but their former manager Noel Monk's book Runnin' With the Devil (he left right around the time Roth did) is fascinating.

great post elvis t. and hoping you feel better

Lol the out of tune Jump video is hilarious, your brain knows it isn't going to resolve but it holds out hope nonetheless

Monk's book is good, but "Van Halen Rising" was more illuminating. Kind of like the (much shorter!) equivalent of Lewisohn's "Tune In."

Elvis T. sold me on VHR being the next book in my queue.

Dance the Night Away is the uplifting VH song for me. Just pure concentrated joy - DLR's screams are so ott, best Anthony backing vocals, and the long repeat and fade of the chorus is the "May the Road Rise Up to Meet You" of hard rock. I joke with my wife that I want it played as the final music at my funeral service.

Here's (I hope) a minute of my guitar teacher's band of session guys nailing "Dance":

https://imgur.com/a/OXCAwxK

Guess not? This should be the link:

https://imgur.com/a/OXCAwxK

Re: that awful Jump performance.

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/the-true-story-behind-van-halens-infamous-out-of-tune-jump-performance-has-finally-been-revealed

t wasn’t too often that Eddie Van Halen was less than perfect on electric guitar. Which is why, for Van Halen fans, the infamous 2007 Greensboro, North Carolina show-closing performance of Jump – when Ed’s guitar was completely out-of-tune with the keyboard track – remains such a memorable moment.

Over the years, the screwup has largely been blamed on a tech, with many fans positing that the synth track was played back at the wrong sample rate. But now Eddie’s guitar tech at the time, Tom Weber, has cleared up the story.

Weber, along with Van Halen keyboard tech Greg Rule, appeared on Rock Talk with Mitch Lafon and The Jeremy White Podcast, and was asked about the Jump performance. Said White, “Were you there when that whole screwup with the keyboard happened? With the sample rate?”

“It’s not the keyboard sample rate. It had nothing to do with the keyboards. I haven’t been able to address this because it’s a sore spot for Ed. During the guitar solo, which was a couple of songs before the infamous incident, Ed loves to make noises with the guitar, we all know that. Anybody that’s been to a Van Halen show and been there for the guitar solo knows that you’re liable to hear any unearthly sound that Ed can make with a guitar.

“So at one point he took the guitar and literally jammed the headstock of the neck into the stage several times. Normally if there was a situation where the guitar was out of tune, obviously my job is to be ready for him with another guitar, which I was. Ed’s right-hand guy, Matt Bruck, and I were in ‘guitar world’ and it’s like, ‘Oh, crap – he’s knocked the guitar out of tune.’”

Weber continued, “Well, he fine-tunes it some and gets back into playing and I’m holding another guitar over my head so that he can see it and he’s waving it off. He’s still playing the solo, he’s fine-tuned, it’s passable. Well, they go right from that into Ain’t Talkin’ ‘bout Love, that’s the next song on the set list. Wolfgang starts playing and realizes that he’s not in tune with the guitar so he retunes a little bit so they’re in tune.

"So they’re in tune – you have guitar and bass in tune. So they play Ain’t Talkin’ ‘bout Love and Panama and then typically the band, at the end of the show, they come offstage for a minute, I switch guitars with Ed, and they go back on for the encore, which is Jump."

That particular night, however, "they didn’t come offstage," Weber said. "They went around the corner… we had what we call the ‘phone booth’ on stage left, the big ego ramp that went up around to this big cabinet that nobody ever used for anything. But they went around the side of that and Ed didn’t come off the stage to get another guitar.

“So now you have Wolfgang on his bass and Ed with his out-of-tune guitar on a keyboard song that is in tune. Ed didn’t have keyboards in his monitor mix so he didn’t hear that he was out of tune. So that’s where all that went."

As for what happened next?

"The funniest part about it was, he didn’t know that that had happened until a couple of weeks later when somebody was at the venue and showed him the video of it," Weber said.

"So I got called to the dressing room full of people and he said, ‘You handed me an out-of-tune guitar.’ I said, ‘No, I didn’t.’ I said, ‘If you’ll recall, you banged the headstock of the guitar into the stage that night several times and then you didn’t come off the stage to get the guitar at the end of the show for the encore. He said, ‘Ah, that wouldn’t make any difference.’"

According to Weber, Eddie, who had a guitar around his neck at the time, "proceeded to jam it into the dressing room floor, and in front of a room full of people it comes back up and it’s way out of tune. And I said, ‘Just sayin’…’ And that’s the last I ever heard about it.”

god i'm glad they cleared that up, was sick of the EVH fanboys insisting that it was a 'stupid tech who screwed up'