Quentin Tarantino's Manson murders movie

lol fair!

I think he wrote the novelization himself.

I remain bemused by readers angry that the novelization wasn’t as novelistic (or as leashed to the structure of the movie as anticipated), but then, I’m someone who has heard the man on many podcasts. OF COURSE the book is what it is

(And I don’t say that pejoratively!)

yeah, for sure his recognizable voice comes through in the book I read.

I caught up with a few movies from his book.

Rolling Thunder: John Flynn directs this from a Paul Schrader script. It's not particularly good, but pretty intense, especially the leads (Devane and Tommy Lee Jones). In classic '70s fashion, ends with a soft rock song over a freeze frame, which is among the traits it shares with "First Blood" a few years later. Shades of "Taxi Driver" in here, too.

The Outfit: Another John Flynn joint. Slightly better made, but I dunno, mostly feels like Robert Duvall and Joe Don Baker goofing around in a dull crime tale that doesn't feel particularly thrilling. I could imagine the same story being told better with a zippier sense of direction.

Dirty Harry: Definitely good discussion fodder, but not that great of a film (iconic bits and pieces aside). Coasts on Clint and the weird charisma of the baddie, though perhaps better remembered/regarded for the trends it set in motion than for what it actually achieved. There's a scene in here with the AG lecturing Harry about Miranda and stuff, which is I think meant to infuriate audiences but in fact reminded me of the pedantic doctor speech at the end of "Psycho."

Malibu High: This movie is pretty bonkers, at least on paper, and might have made for a good satire had any of its satirical elements a) been intentional (which I doubt) and b) handled with any degree of skill. It's filmed and acted like an educational film that was made over a weekend. Half the scenes feature ample traffic noise. But there is something interesting about it: a bit of score used for the world's most boring foot chase was repurposed for "The People's Court"!

Gonna watch "Deliverance" tomorrow. It's another one I only know by way of reputation and individual bits.

I just confused Rolling Thunder with Blue Thunder and could not compute.

"Blue Thunder" is John Badham, right? I used to watch that movie a lot on cable as a kid (at a friend's house). And the TV show, too! Which, until watching this trailer, I had no idea co-starred Dana Carvey!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROZpwD7kQys

Hell I saw the movie way back when and forgot Daniel Stern was in it!

I saw it as some kind of bonus screening for a film class a week before it premiered, which is why I was so sure of the release date.

OK, now "Deliverance," that's a movie. I guess I kinda agree with Ebert's contemporaneous review, in that there's not really as much going on as the movie perhaps thinks it has going on, but like fellow violent fantasy "Dirty Harry," there's still enough to talk and think about. Also like "Dirty Harry," I see echoes of it in tons of stuff that came after, right up to the present, both good and bad, and cross-genre (though especially horror). The big difference is that unlike that aforementioned list, including "Dirty Harry," this one is extremely well made by a director that really knows what he's doing and a DP that really knows how to make it look great, though I suppose "Dirty Harry" gets nearly as much out of its urban setting as this one gets out of rural Appalachia. And more importantly, no annoyingly omnipresent folly work. Boorman is smart enough to frequently let the relative silence speak volumes.

assuming folly=foley

Ha, yeah. The other more inept movies had more folly work.

Rolling Thunder is particularly good imo. Weirdly sensitive and soulful piece of work for what should have been a basic piece of revenge exploitation. Fantastic performances in it too. Some talk about it in a Paul Schrader thread here recently.

https://deadline.com/2023/05/once-upon-a-time-in-hollywood-star-rick-dalton-dead-quentin-tarantino-declares-1235373860/

Rick Dalton, 1933-2023

Is he alright?

no, he’s dead

For how long?

As someone who liked this film a lot the idea that we need to be filled in on Rick dalton lore feels depressingly wrongheaded

Both QT books look unreadable — he’s a bad writer — but I agree that it’s silly to expect different even if I’m not familiar with his podcast work (just the fact that his career finds its rightful place there is perfect, it’s his destiny on the radio)

I was surprised to enjoy almost all of Cinema Speculations and not surprised to find Once Upon a Time in Hollywood intolerable after two chapters

I agree he is often a poor writer--particularly when he's trying extra hard to play Quentin Tarantino--but Cinema Speculations is very readable because just as often he has interesting things to say.

"dirty harry isnt well made, the director doesn't know what he's doing" is a shockingly terrible take and if it's not a knowing attempt at challops should really see repercussions like you shouldnt maybe be allowed watch things and state things afterwards about them

His worst take is that he doesn't rate Hitchcock but likes movies that are Hitchcockian

tbc im not talking about a tarantino take there

As someone who liked this film a lot the idea that we need to be filled in on Rick dalton lore feels depressingly wrongheaded

the kayfabe on the first episode is so good that it feels like the entire series was a long game just to get them practised up to do this

i listened to a bit of it (as i check in on the podcast here and there) and couldn't hang at all. whole enterprise is corny.

I haven't listened to it yet, but I think it's exactly the nerdy deep dive I'm excited to hear (then again, I was also the kid dreaming up entire fake label discographies and band histories).

As a creative exercise, it seems likely to be a warm-up for the next movie more than QT thinking it was time to respond to incessant public clamour for the Rick Dalton Chronicles

I’m glad Rick Dalton died. That one movie was more than enough.

It appears that Leslie Van Houten may finally be paroled. She's 73 years old.

“closer” insofar far as being *recommended* for parole…but it’ll prob go to supreme court & long court battles blahdy blah so she is still a long way from being irl paroled

Watched Hollywood again the other day for something I was doing--fourth time? I won't change or even bother checking anything I posted above, but I do find Tarantino's deep attachment to pre-Manson Hollywood oddly moving. I say oddly because I have no attachment to that specific moment (Matt Helm movies, TV westerns, etc.) whatsoever--to the time period, yes, but not to that corner of it. But the film does move me, even the wildly self-indulgent conceit of the ending--loved how Sebring and Tate are improbable Rick Dalton fans at the end.

“Hey, are *you* Rick Dalton?”

And DiCaprio plays the scene beautifully. I've been knocking him a lot recently for his Scorsese work, but I think he's really good in this.

Fully agree, his acting is amazing throughout the film, and that final shot is one of the most haunting and beautiful things Tarantino has done.

I really do think the what-if scenario, which purports to be some kind of shallow wish fulfillment, is actually a way to really underscore the absolute abhorrence of the real life tragedy, and the magnitude of the loss.

I kind of felt the same way about the righteous fury at the end of inglourious basterds, though i think OUATIH is definitely the better film as far as really making it something above and beyond.

The only thing I'd still change is that Manson himself gets the flamethrower instead of whichever of the two women got it. I forget what the rationales for that were earlier in the thread, but I still don't get that at all.

it’s definitely one of my favorite movies he’s ever done, maybe because he is coming from a more sentimental place & it resonates w me

robbie is such a superstar in it. i dont think it works if shes not as incredible in it as she is.

i dont think theres another character or performance of that type across his entire catalogue.

yeah she’s so vibrant and joyful, definitely key to the movie & the emotional power of the ending

She does such a beautiful job of making Tate a real person, even if its only an approximation - her performance is a lovely tribute to her memory