Help me with Bollywood and Indian cinema in general

I'm trying to branch out a bit from the action, What If A Guy Was Awesome? side of Indian cinema.

Watched Andhadhun yesterday. The first hour or so of it reminded me of 80's Hong Kong cinema (I know I go to this comparison a lot) in that the general aesthetic (in this case, prestige pop starbucks millenial shit) would be unbearable for me in a Western film but somehow once it gets filtered through another culture it becomes almost unbearably stylish and awesome. Loved how twisted things got at one point. That being said, once Tabu poisons the guy to actually go blind, I felt the twists started coming off as forced, and the main relationship I was invested in got sidelined. I also suspect the stuff with the auto driver and his wife is casteist in that way that you could easily miss as an outside viewer but that becomes obvious once you've been alerted to it.

Def looking forward to the Azanavour Combo's concert in Main Square, Somewhere in Europe tho!

did you see Queen? good fun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_(2013_film)

Added to my letterboxd watchlist, I like the idea of a reverse Eat Pray Love.

I'm trying to branch out a bit from the action, What If A Guy Was Awesome? side of Indian cinema.

This is a very good description.

Pathaan was great. The only thing I would've liked is a couple more songs. Amazing the personal training regime you can keep up when you spend two years in a Russian prison.

Like, I feel that if I captured Pathaan (see my upcoming three-part adventure on An Archive of Our Own), the first thing I would do is stop him from training all the time. The man's a menace.

the after credits scene was my favourite

Our household is now fully invested in the YRF Spy universe (I guess everyone has to pick a team), so last night we watched Tiger Zinda Hai. Then we watched the train scene from Pathaan again. It made me realize that one of the sliiiiightly disappointing things about Pathaan is that so much of it is clearly greenscreen and CGI, whereas in Ek Tha Tiger and Tiger Zinda Hai, it's the immediacy of the real, practical stunts and effects that gives the film its impact. Ah well, I guess that's COVID for you. And also I guess it's harder to crash a real train than an oil truck.

Has anyone seen MISS LOVELY?

No, I have it bookmarked to watch, but I haven't seen it yet.

Just finished. Will sleep on it and report tomorrow.

Latest viewing I've had is Agneepath (1990). Amitabh Bachchan's protagonist is like a mix of Tony Montana and Boris Karloff. Very over the top even by standards of the genre. Not my fave Indian gangster epic but as usual with these running times you get some good stuff in there - the musical number in Mauritius, incorporating local sounds and what I think was a Bachchan impersonator, was a highlight, and Mithun Chakraborty very good as salt-of-the-earth comic relief friend.

Yeah, I didn't like that one particularly. I found it all very ugly and unpleasant and a bit dull.

Yesterday we watched Bajirao Mastani (2018), starring Ranveer Singh, Deepika Padukone and Priyanka Chopra. It was good stuff. Excellent songs, sumptuous costumes and sets, everybody looking magnificent, lot of doomed love going on, yes please.

MISS LOVELY was great. Excellent period look.

Story is ultimately maybe pretty conventional but the way it twisted and turned as it played out was always interesting.

I'm annoyed that I forgot to add that to my Mubi list, because the search function on Mubi is terrible and now I can't find it. I assume it's still there.

Some recent Netflix films:
Mersal (2017) - not Hindi, but Tamil. An overlong and formulaic but nevertheless entertaining social-issue masala film starring huge Tamil star Vijay. Annoyingly, the songs are not subtitled in English. Written and directed by Atless, this gets a bit preachy, but the action is good and it all looks gorgeous, even the really stark bits. And while Vijay doesn't have the instant appeal of SRK to an old white lady like me, his hero-ness grows on you.

Shimla Mirchi (2020) - starring Rajkummar Rao, Rakul Preet Singh and Hema Malini (who you may remember from Sholay). This is based on a French comedy and it shows. Didn't get great reviews when it came out, and it's definitely way too long, but the leads are all lovely and, sure, it's harmless enough.

Yeh Jawaani hai Deewani (2013) - I gather from social media that this is a bit of a modern classic for those who love Bollywood college-based romances. And who does not love Ranbir Kapoor and Deepika Padukone? Certainly nobody in my house. Anyway, yes, this is one of those and very good at it.

Ae Dil Hai Mushkil (2016) - written and directed by Karan Johar (who pulled in a lot of "friends" for friendly appearances for this), and starring Ranbir Kapoor, Anushka Sharma and Aishwarya Rai Bachchan, this starts out really charming with two winning leads, but falls into the trap of thinking that the leading man's pain is more important than anything else, which just gets kind of annoying after a while. Also there are som questionable hair and makeup choices.

Gone from MUBI US and I assume from other MUBI as well.

Balls.

Good work on getting the thread title changed trishyb

Watched Queen yesterday - charming as hell! Part of me was perversely hoping for some sort of reverse Eat Pray Love ("the Dutch are a very spiritual people"), and tbf there were some inverted travel clichés ("the French eat fish heads??"), but mostly I found it a surprisingly affecting portrait of someone overcoming what is only slowly shown to be an emotionally abusive relationship. The stuff about every little thing leading her to hyperfixate on some tenous link between the thing and her ex I felt very relateable. And of course Kangana Ranaut is cute as a button in it! Perhaps I am a bit too molded by the letterboxd reviews, but was there some sapphhic subtext happening with Vijayalakshmi? The way Rani stares at her in the Eiffel tower scene... anyway plenty of progressive text in this as well, in terms of gender relations, sex work, multiculturalism, etc.

The songs I have to say were mostly awful, though I loved the opening number with its shout out to Southall.

Shame about the songs, but otherwise that sounds top notch. I might watch it tonight.

In the end we watched a couple more historical epics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c64I9HNpiOY

Padmaavat, a Sanjay Leela Bansali film starring Deepika Padukone, Ranveer Singh and Shahid Kapoor. I'm not convinced by Shahid Kapoor. I find him a bit wishy-washy. And this was, um, a little questionable? Nasty, bloodthirsty Northern warlord becomes obsessed with civilized, genteel, Southern queen and all hell breaks loose. Good songs, but I do find these days that a lot of greenscreen just gives me a headache, and I get a bit fed up with Deepika just standing around under a ton weight of jewellery and not really doing a whole lot.

Then we watched Ponniyin Selvan, Part One. This is a massive Tamil historical epic centred on the Chola/Pandya/Chera conflicts in southern India and Sri Lanka in the 10th century (about which, you won't be shocked to hear, I knew nothing until I read about them on Wikipedia after watching this film). I struggled a bit with the names and relationships in the beginning, but eventually got the hang of who was who, and it all looks absolutely luscious. So much outside! So many incredible forts! A comedy horse that steals people's pants! Fantastic soundtrack, really appealing performances, an all round good time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjlpAGs2piE

Watched Queen yesterday - charming as hell!

Totally agree, although I did like the songs. Loved everyone (except stupid Vijay, fuck that guy) by the end of this and wanted only good things for all concerned. Very funny, looked lovely, excellent performances. Highly recommend. Would suit your friend who does not like Bollywood.

I've seen Rajkummar Rao in a few films now, and I really don't know much about him beyond the fact that he often appears to be willing to play against the "what if a guy was awesome" type. So many of his characters are kind of unpleasant people.

although I did like the songs

Even the one with the "California Dreamin" interpolation?

I mean, I'm not saying I've added it to a playlist or anything...

Annamalai - Equal parts goofy comedy and soap opera, only occasionally an action film. I checked this out because it's a Rajinikanth vehicle, and that dude is fast becoming one of my all time favourite movie stars - he always plays these working class heroes. In this one he's a milkman, and there's a whole musical number in praise of cows. Also one where his love interest, due to a series of shenanigans, is unsure whether he's a prince, a robber or a milkman, and thus cosplays fantasy scenarios with him in each role. He befriends a rich guy and when things go sour decides to become a businessman himself, so a lot of the Revenge plot is done in the boardroom, not with fists, and you get an interesting glimpse into tamil yuppie aesthetics. Gotta say I was struggling through the last hour of family drama but the action finale does pay off, you know you're in good hands when the villain's catchphrase is "I am a bad man". So far I'd say Thalapathi is the most high quality Rajinikanth joint I've seen, and Baasha the most fun. Will keep investigating.

Big scandal over new blockbuster Adipurush. Insufficiently reverentia towards Hinduism apparently, though none of the news items I read cite the specific passages (perhaps out of fear of being accused of blasphemy themselves?). Director under policd protection, has agreed to change the offending lines. As always I give my disclaimers of being a white outsider but this sure seems like some religious right fuckery to me.

Oh wow. Just saw that was showing, thought about going knowing nothing about it.

It got a battering from one of the Indian media critics I follow on Twitter.

wait Hanuman is in The Flash? huh

I watched FAN (2016) this evening, bringing my total for SRK films up to 36, making him now officially my most-watched actor (I think), beating out Michael Caine by two films.

Personal achievements aside, Fan is a pretty good film. It's not very Bollywood -- no songs, no overacting, no big SRK gestures, no love story, no jokes. Just a creepy thriller about a psychotic fan who looks eerily like his hero. It's a pretty solid film.

bringing my total for SRK films up to 36, making him now officially my most-watched actor (I think), beating out Michael Caine by two films.

ooh are you on letterboxd? or do you keep your own tally?

I just keep my own tally. I did join Letterboxd, but it's too much like work.

It's been invaluable to me in exploring different Indian cinema industries, though also the desi reviewers on there are merciless when it comes to Indian cinema.

It's probably a good idea, even if it does sometimes feel like homework. I guess I don't really have to rate and review everything, just log it.

oh yeah absolutely, I started enjoying it more once I dropped those expectations

https://letterboxd.com/beingprateek/lists/

This guy has best of lists for every regional style of Indian cinema. Are they good lists? No idea!

Mmm. He seems very thorough.

Maamannan (Tamil) - Keerthy Suresh plays an educator who provides free classes for disadvantaged youths, in a room that is littered with Che Guevara posters. This upsets the brother of political bigwig Fahadh Faasil, who runs a private college and doesn't appreciate the competition. She therefore reluctantly seeks out the help of Udhayanidhi Stalin, whose character is a trademark Indian Cinema Awesome Dude - runs a dojo, rides a sweet bike, works as a pig farmer despite his dad also being in politics (at one point he draws a hilarious picture of a winged piglet). From there things quickly escalate and Udhayanidhi has to bust some heads while his dad (Vadivelu) runs against the villain at the ballots.

It's a bit clumsy, to be honest, the action film and semi-pedagogical political drama bits of it failing to mesh. Suresh, who the film initially centres on quite a lot, becomes a background character pretty quickly, as if the film was saying "ok we've ticked the feminist thing off the list", though at least she gets to keep showing up in jeans and political t-shirts, and is never put into a damsel in distress position. There's also an unfortunate focus on violence against animals: villain raises racing dogs and is introduced beating one of them to death, later he sets them loose on the hero's pigs...all pretty fake and CGI but still, didn't need any of that. Will say though that the film's heart is in the right place, and it's cool to see commercial cinema that doesn't just hint at leftist social justice politics or try to package it into a defanged feel good product but engages with it directly and explicitly. At one point the villain summons the local caste counsel and has them ban his political opponent from certain villages, they are portrayed as absolute cunts.

Neeyat (Hindi) - Kind of the opposite of Maamannan in that this is total and absolute fluff but super slick. A murder mystery that pilfers liberally from the Knives Out films, both in design and "aren't the rich fucked up" messaging. Set on a Scottish island, though with an all desi cast (the only whites are voiceless staff, a neat inversion of western cinema's treatment of brown people), and with the interesting choice of making investigator Vidya Balan not a cock-of-the-walk monologuist like Benoit Blanc, Hercule Poirot and all the others, but rather an awkward woman who seems not to want to be there - in one of the funniest moments of the film, a suspect actually says "we'll go into the drawing room now and listen to what you have to say", as if prompting the character to go through her tropes. Better yet, this awkwardness is actually explained in one of the film's last twists. The politics of it are pretty shallow and the mystery ain't the strongest, but it's gorgeous people in gorgeous sorroundings and at 130min it's practically the Bollywood equivalent of a programmer.

villain raises racing dogs and is introduced beating one of them to death, later he sets them loose on the hero's pigs...all pretty fake and CGI but still, didn't need any of that.

I agree. No thanks to that, even in obvious CGI form.

Neeyat sounds pleasant, though. Might give that a go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8YiqM0Y-78

This looks like an absolute juggernaut of a film. I don't know if that's a good thing. I am worn out with slow-motion action.

"Jawan is about a soldier who sets out to avenge a personal vendetta against the government with the help of his gang of women."

Interested if the soldier's the good guy, not so much if not.

speaking of trailers/teasers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_FKt7Iso

Simple English!
Lion, cheetah, tiger, elephant - very dangerous.
But...
Not in Jurassic Park!

So many awesome guys. I'm exhausted.

Rocky Aur Rani Kii Prem Lahaani - Ranveer Singh plays the heir of a Punjabi candy empire and a S tier himbo who finds out his grandfather (Bollywood legend Dharmendra), who is wheelchair bound and sundowning, occasionally mentions the name of an old flame. This turns out to be fellow bwood legend Jaya Bachchan, playing the grandmother of a highly cultured Bengali family. Granddaughter Alia Bhatt, host of a serious news show and Singh team up to let the old couple meet in secret, as both families disapprove - and of course end up falling for each other as well. From there it becomes a movie about cultural differences, with the high concept of both lovers agreeing to live at the other family's house for three months in order to see if the differences are insurmountable.

I went into this having seen the trailer expecting, basically, the kind of film I thought Bollywood films were before I started watching Indian cinema. Big love story, a lot of melodrama, musical numbers in exotic locales. I'll admit I was dreading the 170min lenght a bit. And I guess it kind of IS what I just described, but it is also a lot funnier than I thought it would be, Singh is just a riot, boastful, kind hearted, totally thick in the most delightful ways - also just a succession of INSANE outfits, all designed to show off his impressive six pack. And Bhatt of course is awesome, feisty, breathtakingly beautiful. So by the time the movie switches a bit into more dramatic material you're invested in the relationship.

The culture clash stuff is interesting, doesn't really map directly onto anything we'd see in a Western comedy: Singh's family is ostentatious (but not necc nouveau riche, his grandmother built the empire), politically conservative, religious. Bhatt's is secular, highly cultured, politically progressive and a bit snobbish. So the film gets into a lot of progressive causes, overall feminist bent, casteism, fat shaming, gender stereotypes. Bhatt's father is a professional dancer for a style that I guess is mostly associated with female performers. It's frequently naive (Alia suggests they change a commercial to be gender progressive and sales go THROUGH THE ROOF), but less bothsidesish than you'd think - Bhatt basically learns nothing from Singh's family, and what Singh teaches hers amounts to "stop turning your nose up at people for being corny and for being less educated than you", which, you know, OTM. Felt very smug at the cultural references I got (Singh mistakes a portrait of Rabindranath Tagore as the family's grandfather, there's a Rajamouli ref because Bhatt was in RRR), but obviously there's bound to be way more that went over my head.

Oh also they go to Kashmir for like five minutes. Bhatt is covering a NGO there but it still feels a bit "yeah we own this now".

Anyway, trishyb, possibly a good antidote to your awesome guy fatigue!

Oh it's directed by the guy who did Citizen Khan and Khabi Khushi Kahbie Gham.

Oh yes, we went to this on Saturday. My first Bollywood film in the cinema! I'm really glad to see it playing multiple shows across a whole week in Dublin.

The culture clash stuff is interesting, doesn't really map directly onto anything we'd see in a Western comedy:

It's a bit like if the kids in The Birdcage swapped families (and everyone wasn't necessarily gay).

The big problem with this film that I had was that it really makes K3G look stiff and outdated by comparison, with its casteism, fat-shaming, patriarchal households, etc etc. It's also funny to see the actors who used to play mothers and fathers now playing grandparents, but the actors who used to play the leads (the men, anyway) are NOT aging gracefully into the dad roles and have instead taken a sidestep into doing action films.

Anyway, trishyb, possibly a good antidote to your awesome guy fatigue!]

Yeah, it was great. Just what I wanted. If I had time to go all the way to Dublin this week I think I'd go and see it again. And at the end I got to say to my husband, "see, aren't you glad I made you sit through Devdas now?"

And, in his glorious wisdom, our leader has bestowed on us the gift of a song from Jawan. Maybe he feels Ranveer has been getting too much attention this weekend.

The big problem with this film that I had was that it really makes K3G look stiff and outdated by comparison, with its casteism, fat-shaming, patriarchal households, etc etc.

tbf one thing about this one is, with all its progressivism the main villain is still an old woman

also the anti-casteist comments are nice but the darkest person in the film is still a security guard

anyway, obv not stuff I should get too judgemental and authorative about as a total outsider to the culture

I had a certain amount of sympathy for Rocky's gran. I'm not sure how delighted I'd be if my husband resumed a long-buried love affair right under my nose. And if my grandson's fiancee came into my sweet shop and started making sweets without washing her hands first.

Well the husband wasn't really all there anymore, it's as much palliative care as a love affair imo. Plus the fact that in the opening flashback we see she never liked him anyway, due to his distasteful enjoyment of POETRY.

Maybe she washed her hands offscreen!

Oh sure, take her side.

(Just kidding.)

I had no idea that being a sweetmaker was such a big thing. This is at least the fourth film I've seen where one of the main characters is a sweetmaker. (Queen, K3G, Chennai Express, Rocky aur Rani)