Let's bitch about our stupid, annoying co-workers

I have seen past coworkers socially. It can happen. Cripes this chat is depressing.

There is nothing sadder than seeing someone hang out with people they work with outside of work. I will never spend an unpaid minute with a coworker.

― brotherlovesdub, Monday, March 20, 2023 8:33 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is a completely insane post although i am ultimately tilted more toward the map position in this conversation--i have never sought to have friendships or meaningful relationships with coworkers and have dodged my share of social events. but i've also gone to my share of social events, it's a matter of finding a balance and realizing that some of these things are low stakes and can generate some good will in exchange for a couple hours of your time.

if you want to opt out of all this stuff i would advise being super friendly and accessible during work hours so you have some plausible deniability as being a nice person who "just doesn't go to those things"

There is nothing sadder than seeing someone hang out with people they work with outside of work. I will never spend an unpaid minute with a coworker.

― brotherlovesdub, Monday, March 20, 2023 8:33 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I met one of my all time best friends at my job 18 years ago.

Regarding socializing, it's kind of moot being that my team is all virtual but when I was office bound, I went to some get-togethers, didn't go to others. Wasn't something I thought a lot about, we didn't have em often.

Lived with one of my former coworkers, but I knew him from theatre before he got hired.

Co-workers all being each other's best friends is a big thing in restaurants and bars though

I was close with a lot of my coworkers in the art handling business. I think some jobs are so specialized that they draw a certain type of person together that would often not find each other out in the wild. People not in that job/experience get seen as civilians, or outsiders. We all liked art and music more than the Regular People we ran into outside of work.

Now that I'm in a different city and not working, I don't know how to find people. My wife keeps trying to get me to go to book clubs and things to socialize but it feels weird and I'm resistant.

am i too much of an asshole here?

if this is what works for you, then you are totally justified in doing it that way. just realize that people will notice. but their noticing won't matter so long as you are reasonably cordial, competent and helpful in all the aspects of your job that really matter most to your co-workers. no one resents a co-worker who always delivers what they are paid to deliver and is moderately agreeable in the process. the rest is just hoo-hah that barely matters in reality.

I think I’ve hit all the coworker interaction points from socialization with them when I had absolutely nothing in common to feeling like I have social peers. The weird part is feeling awkward at the latter because the concerted effort to appease or avoid exists when you might just have a possible friend

There is nothing sadder than seeing someone hang out with people they work with outside of work. I will never spend an unpaid minute with a coworker.

Just to give a counterpoint: I don't really give a shit about most of the work I've done in the past, or the places I've worked (teaching is different, a bit), but I do remember the people I worked with. Often, it's the only thing that got me through.

I've worked in places where I've ended up really close to people and I've worked in places where I've known the people just are not for me. I know that in most contexts I'm not an easy person to get on with - niche interests, strong political beliefs shaping everything I do, unconventional home life and background - it can be hard to relate, on both my side and for anyone who gets to know me. I don't go the cinema or pay attention to any sports so a lot of small talk stuff doesn't work either. So it does make the idle chatter at work a little trickier. But I find that it's really easy to build rapport simply by taking an interest in people and asking some questions about specifics. "What's his name and how did you meet?" "What did you pick from the menu and was it good?" "Would you recommend it if you haven't seen the first one?"

I think it depends on the job/role how important it is to do this. I worked in retail for over a decade and my best jobs were ones where I made close friends. My favourite coworkers have remained friends, and it's been organic rather than contrived reunions - it just made sense to keep texting every few days and see what was going on with each other. I worked in one place for a year that was a very masculine, macho environment that didn't suit me - it didn't mean I disliked the people, it just didn't make sense that we would have been pals outside of work as we had very little in common in terms of interests or beliefs. I think in retail and hospitality you need those friendships - you're united by a common hatred of the customer and you need to be able to vent. There's few things that help ease the pressure like having a colleague who you can shoot a look at and they know instinctively what you're thinking and how to help you.

In my current job I work from home 3/4 days a week. I get on with people but I can feel the forced attempts at bonding and it makes me squirm. They're all nice people, some are even lovely, but I'm quite happy for it to remain at pub-every-three-months level.

In my current job I have to speak to vulnerable and distressed people quite frequently. Sometimes you take a call from someone and they disclose things that can be quite upsetting and triggering. My personality isn't one that really gets "upset" by things - I'm more likely to get angry at a colleague's ineffectiveness than upset by a client's circumstances, not because I'm heartless but because I think there's no point getting upset over what can't be controlled and instead it's better to work towards a better result. But I've seen some people get bothered by stuff they've heard, and I find it hard to not want to say something to help them. Of course, my something is usually more pragmatic than consoling - "you can't do anything about this now, so why don't you make a tea and work on something else instead?" But it seems to work, and I find people do respond to my slightly brittle attitude positively.

When we started the job, we did our training completely via Teams. We had a day-long session on dealing with upsetting calls and clients at risk of harm. At the end of it, the trainer asked us how we felt about being able to support each other. The rest of the room was saying "oh yeah I would definitely take someone for a coffee if I thought they were upset" and of course I was the only one who said... actually, I wouldn't, because I don't know anyone well enough, I'm not a trained psychologist so I might not say the right thing, and I've got enough on my own plate mentally without taking other people's stresses on. There was a good ten seconds of awkward silence before the trainer said "well, I respect your honesty." If I saw someone crying I wouldn't just ignore them but it would be to signpost them to support rather than provide it myself.

This thread makes me think that most workplaces are deeply dysfunctional.

I think some jobs are so specialized that they draw a certain type of person together that would often not find each other out in the wild

my current co-worker and I talk about this regularly ... though we have a number of mutual friends outside of work ... but then the job we do is pretty niche?

also we were volunteers in an all volunteer group before there was money to pay us so it isn't a typical workplace situation

do you all have co-workers as FB friends?

I was a bit more lax w/ it when FB was less of a toxic place, and even listed where I worked. then one day I made an off the cuff post about my pay raise, someone saw it, told another person who told another person, who was upset that they didn't get selected for our dept, and made noise about my 'bragging' about my pay raise, and it got back to my boss, who ultimately didn't care but said 'be careful about that' and scolded me mildly. so I removed the place I worked and haven't listed it since.

I temporarily stopped adding co-workers as FB friends, but my dept from 2011 - 2018 loved adding each other and I didn't want to be the one resister, so I added them all, but I immediately added each one to a special Friend group that is blocked from seeing anything I post, so as far as they can see, I have never posted. My current dept, I haven't friended a single person and we just don't do that (other than my boss, who I'd friended when I first met him years earlier, before he was my boss).

did manage to find out one of my former co-workers is a mega dumb Trump fucker, most of the rest are harmless people who post nonsense like "TODAY IS A GIFT, THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED THE PRESENT".

I had a 'no current colleagues on FB' rule - so when I left I added the people I liked. My friends have a weird sense of humour and I didn't want any worries about who might misinterpret anything. Tbf no-one posts anything on FB any more anyway.

Absolutely refused to allow any of my 2001-2021 clients and their circle into my FB. The owners of the place where I tend bar were FB friends before they opened the place so the waters have been muddied since 2020. I would like to rant a lot more about the bad-tipping assholes of my area but even more about how the whole tipping situation shouldn't be happening because restaurant owners should pay a living wage, but that would burn some bridges I'm still walking across.

OTOH, it would give you the chance for the cool "walking away from an explosion" shot.

sort of lost the conversation thread but just wanted to respond to this.

I've worked in places where I've ended up really close to people and I've worked in places where I've known the people just are not for me. I know that in most contexts I'm not an easy person to get on with - niche interests, strong political beliefs shaping everything I do, unconventional home life and background - it can be hard to relate, on both my side and for anyone who gets to know me. I don't go the cinema or pay attention to any sports so a lot of small talk stuff doesn't work either. So it does make the idle chatter at work a little trickier. But I find that it's really easy to build rapport simply by taking an interest in people and asking some questions about specifics. "What's his name and how did you meet?" "What did you pick from the menu and was it good?" "Would you recommend it if you haven't seen the first one?"

i really appreciate this perspective. i've gotten better at asking people these kinds of questions. being "interested in others" at work. it does still feel like an act though, because deep inside i still long to be known and loved - there's a hole there from what can be summarized as "queer boy raised in conservative environment who has had to cut off his family". obviously stuff for therapy. but anyway my tolerance for being the "considerate gay man who is always interested in your straight & strong hetero family life usually with mormon cultural stuff involved" is not always there. part of this is the fact that i live in the mormon capital of the world, and my "respectable" state job attracts a lot of those kind of people. the other type of person it attracts is "respectable liberal" which also feels like a club i've been rejected from, somewhat by choice. i've also found difficulty in relating to others in my "less respectable" workplace at the gay bar where i dj, because queer people here all have this burden of trauma from being raised in the fucked up conservative background and many of them have really maladaptive responses to that that i don't want to get wrapped up in. it truly feels like i've reached the end of the line in the place where i live, like there are only so many "types" of people who live here and i'm just fucking bone-tired of all of them.

anyway, this is a funny conversation timing-wise, because a position opened up where i work that would be a significant pay raise. it requires conflict resolution skills and knowledge of records law. conflict resolution i am actually pretty good at i think. records law i find boring but could learn more enthusiastically if it was in the service of helping people reach solutions. i may have been ruled out already - this is the kind of position that the director here likely has some leads / recruiting in the bag for. i think i'm going to apply anyway though. even though i'm just civil but honestly cold and withdrawn when it comes to interacting with anyone here including administrators.

There is nothing sadder than seeing someone hang out with people they work with outside of work.

i'm going to assume this hyperbole and not the incredibly judgmental/ignorant statement it reads as.
one thing i loved about my industry is the creative/interesting/funny people it attracts. some of my best friends are former coworkers. my gf is a former coworker. i couldn't imagine working in a place filled with people i had a screaming desire to not be around.

that's not to say there's anything wrong with not doing work social events. even in my industry people understand that some people are introverts or private (or even in recovery) etc.

and even tho i enjoyed the odd work from home day before coivd, i've been 100% remote since i started working again and i am miserable. i miss the people. i feel like i've been in prison for the last 2-3 years. like my growth as a person has been stunted. i'm hearing less new music, going to way fewer events, learning about fewer books/docs etc etc etc – all stuff i'd have happening if i had that group of smart energetic people i used to be surrounded by. of course some people are duds; but idiots and dead weight tend to get culled from this business. and i guess i just did not realize how hard of a time i have been having until i typed all this out just now

generally speaking i wonder if it would be possible to feel more joy at work? instead of just grudging tiredness or dread all the time. which leads me to think that maybe i need a career change. no idea what that would be though. which reminds me i need to get back to therapy with a good therapist i can't find and don't have the money for. xp

There is nothing sadder than seeing someone hang out with people they work with outside of work.

actually this is "funny" because last week, me & my co-worker went out to lunch because we had to go to a work site, and in the main room of the restaurant were a table of people who also worked together who were having the type of interactions that I'm sure this statement is based on observing ... the guy who was obviously the boss making a dumb joke and the underlings dutifully laughing, and I think there was bro-y mentions of targets and deliverables.

do you all have co-workers as FB friends?

Something like 98% of my Facebook friends are musicians, fellow writers, or people employed in the music industry. Maybe twenty of those are people I shared physical office space with at one point or another. The remaining 2% are two or three blood relatives and two or three people I went to high school with.

yeah I guess the music industry would have more social media networking than, say, mine. that's what i see with the concert promoters i'm friends with as well.

apparently my good friend (the one I referenced upthread) has virtual whiskey drinking sessions w/ his boss. that's p cool.

ok I'm not *that* optimistic about work relations, that does not sound cool

drinking w coworkers = definitely a situation i will never be in, mostly because i don't drink anymore

Thanks for your followups, map, cuz the initial post struck me as bleak. I'm coming out of an office where it was like I was strange for bothering to say "good morning". Awful place with mostly ok people when you did have occasion to chat a bit. Terrible workplace cultures can be like that. I avoided any of their (infrequent) extracurriculars because they were horribly awkward. I got by with just friendly greetings and a personal commitment to not spending a solitary unpaid minute in the place (breaktime walks). Clear to me now that I stayed too long.

i did a line of blow towards the end of a shift once (was at a friend's house, we were having a weekend long party after work, and I'd brought my laptop to finish the day). and got a tough work question ten minutes later that only I was left to answer, thankfully they didn't ask me to jump on a call.

anyway i don't recommend that

I mean, I've never tried it, but I understand that coke really puts you at peak performance for at least a few minutes.

If you’re accustomed to it. If you’re really bowled over you will be a rambling, jaw gyrating disaster.

it didn't put me at peak anything. one reason i quit doing it, that and it raised my already high heart rate

having good managers/colleagues makes such a huge difference in my case. I’m not someone who needs to be praised a whole lot or at all really, but there’s a strong culture of gratitude in my department that is really infectious. Everyone is nice, respectful, my manager is incredibly compassionate and organized and is always giving me opportunities to grow my skill set. I believe the cause of the org I work for passionately. Also, I have such respect and admiration for the “important” people I support,
I get real satisfaction out of helping them, relieving their stress, making their to-do list smaller… it maybe sounds all fake nice or something to an outsider but it’s real and it’s powerful.

otm. my last boss was very much the opposite of my previous one - the boss I had when I first moved over here was an establishment asshole, she frequently reacted negatively to you sharing concerns, stated you shouldn't 'make noise', and even intimated PTO could be 'unapproved'. Frequently made decisions that fucked over a lot of people and didn't give a shit. last boss would move mountains for you but wasn't a pushover either, and firmly believed in work/life balance and helping achieve that.

it really does trickle down. I'm a team player to begin with but ultimately found myself being more willing to help my teammates out when my basic needs were being tended to. it actually meant a lot to me to hear so many of the people I'm coaching say they appreciate how I make myself available and go out of my way to help because once upon a time in my career, I was considered to be a Terrell Owens.

ok something a little more relevant to map’s specific revive: even thought I really like my colleagues and managers a lot, I would be terrified to have a “social hour” with most of them because I am very guarded irl and have big time vulnerability hangovers (s/o brené brown). BUT, the two “work development” retreats we’ve had have been really wonderful and uplifting and just super good feels, heart emojis all around.

But when I worked retail with some other music obsessives, we would ALWAYS go out drinking after work but I was in my twenties and it was just a totally different dynamic, and it was cathartic to let loose together in a way. And I mean, I bought weed from one of these people.

Yes, Execs, abruptly shifting almost all of our proprietary or semi-proprietary software to commercial cloud solutions all around the same time was a monumentally stupid idea, not least because you often need to reach out to a third party to diagnose issues but half of the solutions you bought made previously simple processes much more complicated.

Enjoy your increased stock prices though.

(If I get the new role I'll be leaving this cesspit thankfully)

feeling pretty pissed today. i have to present to a committee almost every month on behalf of government agencies who want to get r3cords ret3ntion sch3dules approved. one committee member in particular is just out there, a grandstander who frequently loses focus and goes off the rails, doesn't really have anything at stake (useless journalism professor at shit local university). he was needlessly antagonistic to my agency today. i didn't say anything out of line but i was rolling my eyes and mouthing things pretty hard during the virtual meeting with my camera on. he sent me an email shortly after the meeting ended with a bunch of questions that he wanted "addressed in the next meeting" way beyond the scope of the matters being discussed. i replied that his questions were best directed to the agency, and that "with all due respect, you might see a more productive outcome with a less antagonistic tone." my boss was cced on all of this. she's the kind of person who will absolutely throw you under the bus at the faintest breath of someone more powerful than you. no response from anyone. can't stop replaying all this bullshit in my head. i don't get paid enough to deal diplomatically with these stupid jerk offs. i find it impossible to just let them run over me. at this point in my career if i can find a somewhat tactful way to say 'fuck off' to these kinds of people i will. i feel really at the end of my rope right now. might take some sick hours tomorrow morning. i hardly have any left because i have to give myself breaks from my awful boss so often. FUCK

still trying to parse out how much of a mistake that email response was. i clearly sound upset and didn't respond to any of his questions but the point isn't invalid. i need a break from this meeting, not going to be attending next month's if at all possible. and i gave myself two hours off tomorrow morning for an 'appointment'.

So I have a job that is officially split between two different roles (but probably closer to three in practice), one of which is more straightforward project management and the other is a behind the scenes role that keeps our workplace management system software up to date. The former requires your usual collaboration and meetings with consultants, etc etc. The latter is very much more a solitary thing, lots of updating CAD floor plans to reflect built conditions, populating occupants, running reports for various departments, etc etc.

Anyway, this particular co-worker keeps making comments in meetings along the lines of, "jon/via/chi 2.0 has plenty of time to chip in, his calendar isn't very full!" or, "you've got nothing to do today, do you? that's a completely clear calendar!". When, in fact, those no obvious meeting days are amongst my busiest because that's when I'm able to cram in all of the behind the scenes stuff that builds up while I'm doing the other half of my job. I've reminded this coworker politely several times of this dual role and my other responsibilities, but they keep making these dumbass comments and it makes my skin crawl - especially when other people's eyes light up with ideas of tasks they can pawn off on me. Ultimately the important people (i.e. my boss and leadership) know what I do and understand the importance, but this newer employee is a blatant ladder climber and sees any opening to diminish what I do as a chance to inflate their own importance. I'm just afraid my friendly reminders are going to become less and less friendly.

tl;dr version - the volume of meetings one sits through every day does not necessarily reflect the level of effort one puts into their job, so stfu ding-dong

if you proposed in one of those meetings that you'd have more time if you had someone sharing that secondary responsibility, would they volunteer themself?

if not, might be fun to throw out there to call the bluff

Have you done the passive aggressive “as we’ve discussed already… yadda yadda” when they offer you up for projects?
If you’re worried they are making you look bad, I’d probably talk to my superior (or theirs) about their behaviour, since you’ve talked to them directly. Maybe suggest they hire a dedicated person for the solitary job if people keeping wanting to send you extra work?

update your calendar to reflect what you actually do.

lol I like the idea of calling that bluff mh, not sure how well received it would be. Definitely have tried the passive aggressive route, but this particular coworker just seems kind of oblivious. I know I'm not the only one put off by their communication style. Mostly just triggers the part of me that hates when anyone judges the quality of one's work solely by the amount of meetings they suffer through.

"jon/via/chi 2.0 has plenty of time to..."

Stand up, slam your hands on the table, shout "TAKE MY NAME OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MOUTH."

haha, i mean...

something along the lines of "bitch, i'm busy" is what i would say. maybe without "bitch." but i seem incapable of setting my boundaries without scaring other people. on the other hand, scaring other people has been somewhat effective for me!

a little show of teeth can be very effective ime

"i need you to stop volunteering my time, i do important things you don't need to know about all day, every day."

is this Outlook? cos this would be a great time to like, create a private meeting for all day, every day, so you appear busy all day. though that then makes it impossible for other people to know when you're free.

or you can just update your daily calendar to reflect all the tasks that you do and make the contents of your meetings only visible to this co-worker. you can create them all passive-aggressive, like...let's say the co-worker's name was Stewart:

9:00 - 10:00 am - "Review Files that Stewart is too stupid to understand"
10:00 am - 10:30 am - "Think about how stupid Stewart is and laugh"
10:30 - 11:00 am - "Fix each thing Stewart screwed up"
11:00 am - 1:00 pm - "Continue fixing the things Stewart screwed up"
1:00 pm - 1:30 pm - "Lunch, and also thinking about how stupid Stewart is"
1:30 pm - 2:00 pm - "Work on Excel file, which Stewart could never understand"

etc

haha

if your manager is of the right temperament you can always say "you can ask my manager about my workload at any time"