basic channel/maurizio/chain reaction, s&d

Paul St Hilaire / Tikiman is getting a Vol. 1 overview next week. Wire just put out a nice overview of their own: https://www.thewire.co.uk/audio/tracks/wire-playlist-paul-st-hilaire

God, those Round Four and Five tracks

I'm finally going deep into Basic Channel land.

So far the classic BC stuff is mind-blowing, and I've listened to most of the Moritz von Oswald Trio records. Each one wears out their welcome after a bit, but I love the concept and I'm kinda jealous of getting to make records like this that are essentially live.

The Tony Allen one is mostly great (because of Tony Allen), and I haven't circled back to the most recent one with Laurel Halo, which I listened to a bunch when it came out and love.

I also rinsed the records Mark Ernestus did with Ndagga Rhythm Force a few years back. I guess next I need to delve into the Rhythm & Sound and Maurizio stuff?

yes

i burned out on the Maurizio 12s (i might be about ready to dive back in again) but Rhythm & Sound stuff is eternal.

Rhythm & Sound stuff is just some of the best music ever made, really.

Paul St. Hilaire new album ("Tikiman vol. 1") is great.

I'm sorry to report that I just can't hang with the Rhythm & Sound material. For me it tilts too far into the dub references, except without any of variation and amazing playing that comes from dubbing out a live band. The bass pressure is impressive and the vocals are great but it really just makes me want to put on a Scientist record.

The BC stuff is still a revelation though. And I enjoyed going through this: https://ra.co/features/3365

you listened to this comp too, right? It’s a lot murkier and odder than the other R&S stuff

https://www.discogs.com/master/506510-Rhythm-Sound-Rhythm-Sound

isn’t that “the other rhythm and sound stuff” mixed together?

omg irritating ilx0r “pipecock” commented on that discogs page.

that's the comp i've listened to over and over again, it's unmixed.

the "see mi yah" remixes are really good

isn’t that “the other rhythm and sound stuff” mixed together?

well “not like it at all” is too strong, but it’s a different vibe 😎

omg irritating ilx0r “pipecock” commented on that discogs page.

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, May 25, 2023 3:31 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

haha yeah and he's just as pompous and annoying there as he was on ILM

that is his brand

my favorite r&s is the mango drive remix, really versatile piece of dub techhno not quite like anything else and quite good for “switching the vibe”

i also like the tikiman showcase cd a lot, but overall tend to agree with jordan that the r&s stuff is a bit too montonous.

not sure the later stuff makes me want to put on a scientist record - imo it’s closer to something like early demdike stare, i really think of it as a sort of dark ambient pretending to be / built on top of dub techno

“later” was the wrong term, i mean the r&s stuff after mango drive and showcase (mid period?)

the later stuff i guess is really the second set of burial mix releases (see mi yah, king in my empire etc) which i think are really great in their own way, which is not so much a dub techno way but more of an effort to make a good background for the vocalists that is also compatible with electronic music but is not some sort of laswellian frankenstein

laswellian frankenstein

haha love this

I love Roll Off / B so much. vast broken sheared off flotsam, the size of planets, meeting, rebounding, complaining, reconciling, breaking apart, recombining

dark ambient on top o dub techno is otm for that stuff. it's pure mood music set to all dark colors.

Listened to a bunch of R&S today including that comp and I do like the instrumental stuff more, even though the vocalists are great in their own right.

I still think that the more it leans into dub reggae tropes (skanking organ chords, basslines, cross-sticks) the weaker it gets. But the Demdike Stare and dark ambient references make sense to me, I love all the weird surface noise loops. Also still think it's more effective when they apply dub techniques to different vocabularies, although I bet the R&S records sound crazy on a soundsystem.

browsing through this thread and the ra piece and thinking i’d never listened to any of this congeries of dub and techno i realised (listening to it now) that i actually *bought* the rhythm and sound tikiman showcase comp when it came out. it never really blew me away at the time but it’s v nice to revisit.

idk, the vocal r&s stuff on decent speakers at a decent volume achieves a level of absolutely monumental dread that i find undeniable, it really casts a spell that is sustained by the repetition and minimalism, dub tropes don't detract from that for me because it is dub music. the see mi yah remixes are good, but they're something totally different

yeah i was going to say … imo a close listen of the see mi yah remixes tells you more about the remixers than it does about r&s

and i agree with karl. the burial mix stuff is not just influenced by reggae, it IS reggae

of course the remixes tell you more about the remixers than r&s! they take the minimalism and turn it into dance music. soundstream one is so enjoyably bouncy.

i don't hear dread in either "king in my empire" or "queen in my empire", i hear spiritual triumph and jubilation. not sure which of the other vocal tracks might feel more dread-y. but reading back what you said, i get you on the volume and the singular presence of the sound, it's very powerful.

It's a me thing, once you really get into dub territory I miss all the beautiful & detailed drumming (and bass playing) that's as much a part of the appeal for me as the dub mixing. But I know this has its own thing, it's cool.

i feel you on liking 'actual' dub more than these records tbr

the dread is in the suffocatingly thick prescence of the sound, the power comes from how methodically it rolls out and sets a scene that stays still as it moves. in 'king in my empire' the lyrics describe the whole world in jah's hand but the vocals don't rejoice, they leer and promise a comeuppance, 'i'm like a burning fire, leave me you old vampire'

damn, nice read. there is definitely comeuppance in it. i love that track to pieces. campbell is so amazing on it.

i feel like the vocal versions of the see mi yah riddim are generally more "dread" than the king in my empire version

i forget exactly which it is but one of the remixes is really sparse and scary. maybe the sleeparchive "dem never know" mix?

the one about the lover cheating with the best friend, i can't remember the title, that one i remember feeling spooky, a little like a ghost story.

the carl craig "poor people must work" is pretty haunting imo.

that carl craig remix is stunning and eerie, also love the sleeparchive. despite both being dated by some clicky 00's percussion, that might just be my hangup though

yeah pretty much all of those remixes sound a little dated tbf

back in style in five years, when mnml revival happens

i'm fine with that just please no clicks this time

how about some roland hand claps?

eternal

Definitely get that sense of dread from Rod of Iron’s vocals on Lightning Storm

I think Pole is the closest comparison to sound the Basic Channel guys achieved with R&S, but even more faded, degraded and glitchy.

the dubplates & mastering-centered group of the time