2023 nba draft thread: starring victor, scoot... and more!

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hollinger sounding the alarm on scoot

Is there a race for the second pick in the draft? Henderson has been the presumptive No. 2 pick all season, but while Alabama’s Brandon Miller puts together a big season on the court, Henderson’s up-and-down play in the G League has started to raise some eyebrows. I watched him play in College Park on Wednesday night as he scored 17 points in a 131-105 blowout loss; after a 13-point first quarter, he was basically invisible the rest of the night.

First, let’s start with the good news. Henderson is very clearly an elite athlete, and that is going to translate immediately to an NBA floor. Look at this move early in the game in College Park; suffice to say nobody else in the G League is taking two enormous steps from the 3-point line and dunking like this

And yet … when Henderson can’t get a head of steam in transition his play devolves toward ordinary. Opponents go under ball screens and leave him settling for pull-up jumpers, which he takes in bunches but doesn’t convert at a particularly high rate. Henderson also rarely draws fouls, getting to the line just 72 times in 25 games this year. For somebody with his athleticism, that’s shocking. He’s also not much of a 3-point threat, shooting both infrequently and not all that accurately: converting just 22 of his 68 tries on the season

His line on Wednesday was fairly typical — 17 points on 7-of-19 shooting, with five assists and four turnovers. Henderson averages 17.6 points and 6.4 assists on 44.3 percent shooting for the year, so it’s not like I witnessed some wild outlier. Defensively, he wasn’t overtly awful but you wouldn’t say he made an impact either, and at certain junctures he clearly could have done more.

Big picture, it’s another wobbly data point for the G League Ignite program. Henderson’s numbers haven’t improved at all (PER 14.9 this year versus 15.2 last year, shooting 44.3 percent versus 44.9 percent), and his most obvious weakness, perimeter shooting, hasn’t shown any real improvement either.

On the other hand, Henderson’s own work ethic seems exemplary, and might actually be part of the issue: a staffer told me he was already on the arena floor practicing at 3 p.m. for a 7 p.m. game, which would have meant he worked out for over two hours on a game day. (He wasn’t just lobbing free throws, either.) When I got there they were actually trying to pull him off the floor for a media hit and he was continuing to work. Seeing him dominate the first quarter before fading, I’m wondering if he was spent by halftime.

Overall, my takeaway is that watching Henderson is similar to watching Derrick Rose or Anthony Edwards in college, where you have to take the results with a grain of salt and understand the freakish athleticism underlying his game. That said, he’s going to have to develop a reliable jump shot to justify being the second pick in the draft, and he also needs to put more genuine pressure on the rim. Given that he already represents a player archetype – high-scoring, shoot-first guard who generates headlines but isn’t very valuable unless it’s accompanied by high efficiency — he no longer feels like a no-brainer to go second.

Of course, Henderson’s most likely rival for that spot, Alabama’s Miller, has his own obvious questions to answer. Nonetheless, Henderson’s play has left the door open.

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 15 March 2023 20:55 (two months ago) link

well maybe ultimately comparing a guy to ant edwards and derrick rose isn't exactly sounding the alarm

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 15 March 2023 20:57 (two months ago) link

kevin pelton talking about his projections having miller over scoot on the latest windhorst podcast

windhorst also mentions an executive told him he has miller over scoot

would imagine this narrative will continue to build especially if miller has a strong tournament

J0rdan S., Thursday, 16 March 2023 02:21 (two months ago) link

if it were me i prob wouldnt select miller due to the murder situation

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 02:30 (two months ago) link

the miller situation is just so patently grotesque I just don’t know what to think…like it would seem that if alabama had some exculpatory evidence they’d at least...mention it? maybe there are legal constraints on what can be said? it’s inexplicable to me that for all the conversation the past decade about the different legal vs extralegal burdens of proof wrt like campus sexual assault that this guy is still playing when he was party to an actual murder of a classmate. I just don’t know what to think

k3vin k., Thursday, 16 March 2023 03:00 (two months ago) link

its outrageous

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 03:02 (two months ago) link

yeah i just try to ignore it because it's so awful and dumb

call all destroyer, Thursday, 16 March 2023 03:24 (two months ago) link

yet i just saw an article about how he's traveling with an armed guard who wears alabama gear, so that's very normal and good

call all destroyer, Thursday, 16 March 2023 03:28 (two months ago) link

personally if my team drafted the murder guy well i'd have an issue with that

Clay, Thursday, 16 March 2023 03:33 (two months ago) link

what he did was stupid but he’s very young, i don’t think it should make him undraftable

the situation has scummy cover up vibes but that’s on the coach and people running the university not the 20 year old

J0rdan S., Thursday, 16 March 2023 04:32 (two months ago) link

its much worse than stupid

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 04:35 (two months ago) link

maybe it’s worse. i dunno about much worse. in any event i don’t think it makes him unemployable or an indefensible draft pick

J0rdan S., Thursday, 16 March 2023 04:45 (two months ago) link

yeah i mean someone asks for a gun you give it to them and then they do a murder whatre you gonna do

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 04:50 (two months ago) link

i know the police have said hes not a suspect and its unclear exactly what happened but its certainly not hard to imagine him picking up some sort of charge here

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 04:57 (two months ago) link

and that pat down dance he did my god your actions directly lead to someone getting murdered and thats what you do i would not want anything to do with him

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 04:59 (two months ago) link

the league has made its standards for conduct pretty clear with the ja stuff

k3vin k., Thursday, 16 March 2023 05:02 (two months ago) link

does the nba have an official gun manufacturer yet?

k3vin k., Thursday, 16 March 2023 05:04 (two months ago) link

the smith and wesson midseason tournament presented by the suns owner property management group

k3vin k., Thursday, 16 March 2023 05:05 (two months ago) link

“We knew about that. Can’t control everything everybody does outside of practice. Nobody knew that was going to happen. College kids are out, Brandon hasn’t been in any type of trouble nor is he in any type of trouble in this case. Wrong spot at the wrong time,” Oats said.

k3vin k., Thursday, 16 March 2023 05:06 (two months ago) link

truly sick stuff

k3vin k., Thursday, 16 March 2023 05:06 (two months ago) link

sucks to be in the wrong spot at the wrong time and then you give a gun to someone who commits murder with the gun

Clay, Thursday, 16 March 2023 05:07 (two months ago) link

the story theyre telling about him not having any idea what was going on strains credulity so to speak

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 05:08 (two months ago) link

is that an actual quote k3vin? that's messed up

i saw koc was dabbling with moving miller above scoot on his board and was just smh at koc being koc. didn't know pelton was doing it too. it's like the curse of analytics, if there's no way to quantify it the "journalists" don't know how to factor the possibility of a charge as an accessory to MURDER into their uh draft rankings. it is absurd.

he'll probably just go top 3 because this is not a business that ha smuch patience for ethics and morals in its calculus. but if he actually falls down the draft at all, what's sad is that the farther he falls the greater the narrative gets that the team that takes him got a steal, they're edgy and brash! willing to take a risk where no one else would. like MPJ going to the nuggs... only this is accessory to murder, not a bad back. just smh all around

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 16 March 2023 14:55 (two months ago) link

i cld def see him falling like even if a team doesnt care about character or whatever and a lot of teams genuinely do the possibility that your player might go to jail has to be factored in, tho maybe theyll have more clarity on the legal stuff by then maybe they already do idk

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 14:58 (two months ago) link

the alabama coach has apologized for that quote saying he didnt know all the facts and didnt mean to come off like that fwiw i personally dont think its worth much

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 14:59 (two months ago) link

fair. but the way they have circled the wagons around him is definitely gross

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 16 March 2023 15:03 (two months ago) link

its crazy i cant believe the ncaa is letting him play

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 15:05 (two months ago) link

sicko fuckin organization

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 15:06 (two months ago) link

i don't think the NCAA has the power to suspend a player for something like this... i don't think the NCAA has gun rules. plus this gun was legally owned (tho not by miller). also the NCAA is an insanely slow moving bureaucratic body, they'd never be able to investigate & levy punishment when he was still in school. they're completely useless. it really falls on alabama to take the initiative but...... we're talking the SEC here. those schools are not in the business of voluntarily suspending their best players for not committing a crime (in the state of alabama). so idk

J0rdan S., Thursday, 16 March 2023 15:42 (two months ago) link

no investigation nothing throw college athletics in a hole

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 15:47 (two months ago) link

it is hard to argue w/ that point...

J0rdan S., Thursday, 16 March 2023 16:17 (two months ago) link

or peltons stats are or both

The top player in Kevin Pelton's statistical projections for this year's draft is UConn's backup center who won't even be in the draft.

College basketball is a ridiculous enterprise.

— Robert Williams 🩹🩹🩹 Truther (@dangercart) March 16, 2023

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 17:06 (two months ago) link

pelton uses a blend of his projections w/ the givony espn draft rankings to prevent thing like above ^^ i don't have insider but he said on windhorst's pod that his top 3 are 1. victor 2. miller 3. scoot ... so the same as everyone else's

J0rdan S., Thursday, 16 March 2023 17:11 (two months ago) link

cowardly, he shd stand by his stats

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 17:12 (two months ago) link

Considering how the NBA is fast-tracking Ja's apology tour, I'm sure that a team would be willing to spend a high lottery pick on Miller and then do what they can to shield him from legal repercussions.

Shartreuse (Leee), Thursday, 16 March 2023 19:47 (two months ago) link

this is so much worse than the ja sitch tho there was a murder

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 20:05 (two months ago) link

I mean even by big time college sports' amoral and demented standards the way this has been handled is crazy

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 16 March 2023 20:06 (two months ago) link

a lot of it will prob come down to how much teams think he was really involved in it and whether thats reflective of his typical behavior or he just got swept up in a bad situation, the pat down dance was really bad if youre looking for some sort of barometer, if he ends up in legal jeopardy thats obvs very bad and maybe he doesnt get drafted at all

lag∞n, Thursday, 16 March 2023 20:09 (two months ago) link

i think it's worth reading the big espn story on the incident. first off there's multiple instances where the police/prosecutors and defense disagree on what happened (most pertinently which side fired the first shot) & i think we won't have a set of established facts until the trial. maybe i'm a sucker but i read this and feel like miller prob thought he was bringing the gun for his friend's self-protection. which i don't think is a horrible awful outlier decision for someone to make. stupid and dangerous yes, obviously, but not egregious. it seems crazy to me that the other player from bama (darius miles) was charged w/ murder... miles' friend (the shooter) seems like the real bad guy who instigated all of this, to me


J0rdan S., Thursday, 16 March 2023 20:32 (two months ago) link

two weeks pass...

guy who can teleport is prob a pretty safe #1

Putback dunk off his own stepback 3 🤯 https://t.co/ARkuLYGsAI pic.twitter.com/fXgjzrIAmO

— NBA (@NBA) April 2, 2023

lag∞n, Sunday, 2 April 2023 18:02 (two months ago) link

his game is unarguable. (but he maybe shouldn't be so much of a dribbler when he goes to the nba)

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Sunday, 2 April 2023 18:13 (two months ago) link

why even do all those moves when you can just shoot over everyone

lag∞n, Sunday, 2 April 2023 18:27 (two months ago) link

I feel fairly confident in saying that missing a step back 3 —> putback dunk is something that has never happened in the history of basketball

k3vin k., Sunday, 2 April 2023 23:14 (two months ago) link

in the wide view of the play it even looks pretty normal, but its not lol

lag∞n, Monday, 3 April 2023 00:11 (two months ago) link

yeah you need the angle that follows the ball, where wemby coming back in the frame like that just does not compute, in order to appreciate how insane it is

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Monday, 3 April 2023 01:17 (two months ago) link

two weeks pass...

dink pate

NEWS: Dink Pate, a five-star recruit in 2024, has signed a two-year deal with G League Ignite, he told ESPN. Pate, who is graduating high school at 17, becomes the youngest-known American professional basketball player ever.

STORY: https://t.co/rSVQ8IJpKC pic.twitter.com/6tXyZBonvZ

— Jonathan Givony (@DraftExpress) April 17, 2023

lag∞n, Monday, 17 April 2023 21:59 (one month ago) link

one month passes...

tough draw for wiz

Here's how the Wembanyama odds shifted from each lottery ball reveal (14-5-8-2) in the drawing room

(re-posting b/c of Excel formatting hating percentages) pic.twitter.com/kFqa69i3eN

— Ryan Bernardoni (@dangercart) May 17, 2023

lag∞n, Wednesday, 17 May 2023 15:30 (two weeks ago) link

wow! lmao

man him going to washington would've been really bad

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 17 May 2023 15:35 (two weeks ago) link

so if i'm reading this right, not only did the spurs win the lottery but by the end of the draw they won the lottery despite having an equal chance as 4 other teams all of which were behind a fifth team that had a 54% chance? crazy

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 17 May 2023 15:38 (two weeks ago) link

Wemby was happy Houston didn’t get the 1st pick 😅 pic.twitter.com/PhF1xyckSd

— NBACentral (@TheNBACentral) May 17, 2023


J0rdan S., Wednesday, 17 May 2023 15:39 (two weeks ago) link

their chances got worse along the way but then they pulled it out in the end, clutch draw by the spurs

lag∞n, Wednesday, 17 May 2023 15:40 (two weeks ago) link

haa wemby knows whats up

lag∞n, Wednesday, 17 May 2023 15:40 (two weeks ago) link

that ol popovich magic

omar little, Wednesday, 17 May 2023 16:29 (two weeks ago) link

oh yes forgot the Bulls don't have a pick now, thanks to the Lonzo stuff.

omar little, Wednesday, 17 May 2023 16:41 (two weeks ago) link

Does Pops have enough juice to get the Spurs back to the top? He hasn't coached a good team in a few years now. Obviously he's a tremendous dude and has a great track record but he's no spring chicken.

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Wednesday, 17 May 2023 21:55 (two weeks ago) link

i wonder the same thing

Spottie, Wednesday, 17 May 2023 21:59 (two weeks ago) link

is there a particular assistant there whos well suited to be his successor?

ciderpress, Wednesday, 17 May 2023 23:11 (two weeks ago) link

brett brown haha

lag∞n, Wednesday, 17 May 2023 23:46 (two weeks ago) link

chase buford

micah, Thursday, 18 May 2023 00:48 (two weeks ago) link

pop has definitely mellowed out in recent years...he had said he was going to retire when tim did, but the title window was still open with kawhi and he had made commitments to lamarcus to get him to come to sa. when his wife passed, i think retirement would've taken away a sense of purpose. plus i think he's just in love with hoops. he can't quit it. he'll die cussing out a ref.

slai gorgeous-alexander (m bison), Thursday, 18 May 2023 00:57 (two weeks ago) link

I would say Becky Hammon but https://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/becky-hammon-suspension-wnba-aces-1.6845099

symsymsym, Thursday, 18 May 2023 01:36 (two weeks ago) link

jfc becky

lag∞n, Thursday, 18 May 2023 01:37 (two weeks ago) link

it isn't great

symsymsym, Thursday, 18 May 2023 01:38 (two weeks ago) link

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