Post a controversial music opinion

Yeah, Tina herself is amazing, of course

I just don't think "River Deep Mountain High" is a very good song, not even Rod Evans could do anything with it.

speaking of influence, Deflatormouse’s post immediately made me think of Psychocandy, the last instance of a record in the (post-)punk tradition taking over my life. JMC wore their Spector + Shangri-Las Love on their sleeve too:

the album's opening song, "Just Like Honey," borrows Hal Blaine's famous drum intro from The Ronettes 1963 classic, "Be My Baby", produced and co-written by Spector.

I just don't think "River Deep Mountain High" is a very good song, not even Rod Evans could do anything with it.

Yeah, I just called it up on YouTube and...eh. Not for me. Not the vocal, certainly not the production.

I think the thing about Spector is that he created a new pop sound that had the sonic richness of an orchestra but that didn't sound at all staid and old-fashioned. Clearly it blew a lot of people's minds at the time. The list of rock greats who worshipped at the church of Spector is long and well known. The way the distorted "wall of sound" created a woozy pulse of its own that rubbed against the big, front-and-center drum beat slathered in reverb, with the emotive cry of the lovesick vocals over the top, must have leapt out of the radio as something totally alien.

loving the controversial opinions itt! always found river deep mountain high a bad piece of songwriting that compensates by screaming at the top of its lungs... whereas ain't no mountain high enough (similar metaphors) is a great tune

disagree that high fidelity was not a thing (or difficult to achieve) in the 60s, some of the best and most sought out mics ever are from the 40s and 50s afaik - and a lot of gorgeous recordings were made in those years (I think I started a thread once abt hifi mono recordings but can't fint it, but "Fever" (1960) by Presley is a good example)

I agree that the wall of sound is perhaps better appreciated as an aesthetic related to shoegaze, you have to be into the noise of it

disagree that high fidelity was not a thing (or difficult to achieve) in the 60s

Yes that was a very bizarre statement.

here's even more out on a limb quasi but maybe not total b.s.:

was Spector the first step towards prog rock? it has that classical music ambition, overblown drama, cod symphonic vibes (Spector seemed to want to be respected as serious)...plus if Spector begets the pretentious Beach Boys era and they send the Beatles down the path to Sgt. Peppers and so on

Nilssons version of River Deep Mountain High is good, but I guess that's mostly just because of Nilsson

Hard disagree there, but could be convinced that his approach was a progenitor (or at least pressed similar neuro buttons) to punk

how so?

Because his recordings sound like shit and yet are effective casings for explosive vocal performances and capturing a particular desperation and glory, or something

Nilssons version of River Deep Mountain High is good, but I guess that's mostly just because of Nilsson

It's the worst track on the album though.

his recordings sound like shit and yet are effective casings for explosive vocal performances and capturing a particular desperation and glory

very otm!

all things must pass would be a lot more boring without Spector

hard to imagine a more boring version of that album

Harrison's self-production of Living in the Material World suggests he could've done it.

i'm of the opinion that, much like john's plastic ono band, phil spector being around during the sessions for that one had absolutely fuck all to do with how good the album turned out.

Phil Spector, the ultimate ghost producer

(hey, it’s a dad joke!)

I was thinking it would sound less atmospheric and more twiddly idk

i'm of the opinion that, much like john's plastic ono band, phil spector being around during the sessions for that one had absolutely fuck all to do with how good the album turned out.

― ''can be prusuaded to show gayness'' (Austin), Wednesday, March 15, 2023 12:00 PM (seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

based on what?

this would jibe with that opinion for sure

While in California, Lennon recorded demos for the upcoming album; the demo for the mournful “My Mummy’s Dead,” was used as the master take. Formal recording sessions began September 26 at EMI Recording Studios (not renamed Abbey Road Studios until later). Though Spector was credited as producer, he didn’t actually turn up at the sessions until October 9, and even then his attendance was inconsistent.

I was about to say! I'm not sure Spector did much to POB.

it's interesting, so McCartney obviously didn't like what he did on Let it Be but both Lennon and Harrison brought him in to work on their post Beatles stuff, interesting dynamic

if the textures were as varied as the songwriting ATMP would be a much more interesting album but spector (I assume) sanded it all off to bleh

he couldn't ruin or salvage plastic ono band which is just a miserably conceived and well executed piece of shit (yoko's alternative is pretty good though)

other than that how was the play, mrs. lincoln?

Spector is pretty easy to hate but I think his talent was legit, even if by the time the ‘70s rolled around the glory days were through. His big hits of the ‘60s, the Xmas album…it’s all fantastic. One sees why so many folks wanted to work with him.

Peak Spector moment for me: keitel’s head hitting the pillow as Be My Baby starts up in the opening scene of mean streets.

lol i was just being flippant because thread i had zero basis. had no clue about his truancy during the sessions! that's funny.

(ftr, i love the "atmospheric" sound on plastic ono band so kudos to all involved, even spector. i just assumed he had little to do with it because it's so sparse and had gotten his name on it as more of a power move than an actual production job.)

ums- i've always thought about that too! especially when let it be naked came out. very confusing.

Sleaford Mods is a long running prank on music critics.

bands that are long running pranks on music critics: a controversial music opinion spinoff thread

my nomination: ac/dc

Sleaford Mods is a long running prank on music critics.

This is how I feel about Clipping.

Clipping is great though.

the Lord is testing me

Lorde is a good one

my sweet Lorde

When I think about “Spector’s influence on solo Lennon” I’m thinking less of POB (despite Spector’s credit) and thinking more of Imagine (produced by Spector) and Mind Games (indebted to his production style)

yeah I can hear Spector in Mind Games for sure

Spector's peak as a producer/writer was Death of a Ladies' Man.

Despite the fact that there is little to convince me that Spector had any technical prowess, and I am adamant that “wall of sound” era recordings have an outsized level of estimation insofar as Spector’s “genius”, I have to acknowledge that whatever he was doing was an effective bed for some blazing vocal performances

When I think of the contemporaneous Bacharach/David recordings, my favorites are always the ones that feature more low-key delivery— “Raindrops”, “This Guy…”, “San Jose”, “The Look Of Love”, “Walk On By”, “I’ll Never Fall In Love Again”. Would the moments where Dionne gets shouty in her delivery (“Don’t Make Me Over”, “I Say A Little Prayer”) be improved had they been produced by Spector instead of Bacharach/David? Probably!

The argument is kinda moot for me tho because I’m such a much bigger fan of Stax and Motown production. Aretha and Jerry Wexler, that’s recording genius, to me

yeah i'd agree the motown and stax stuff is a level above, they hit a similar vibe to spector but i think had more respect for individual musicians

Spector is important and the WOS needed to happen but I can’t say that it always serves the songs best. Having said that, i’ll crank Be My Baby up loud and it sounds terrific.

Death of a Ladies Man is great and in that case the sound fits with the songs very well. Never understood why it’s so underrated.

We play the Xmas album over the holidays and it’s always a rush to turn it off before his creepy spoken word bit at the end.

Ah, Death of a Ladies Man was the first Cohen album that wasn't folky at all.

"There were lots of guns around in the studio and lots of liquor, a somewhat dangerous atmosphere."

.

Sleaford Mods is a long running prank on music critics.

I beg to differ, lol, speaking as the 14th post on the OG thread

I get prime-period Fall vibes off of this? very intrigued but it is largely incomprehensible, not that that's an issue for me

― sleeve, Thursday, February 27, 2014 1:45 PM (nine years ago) bookmarkflaglink

the guy really knows how to swear, I respect that, and I also love the silent bob type drinking beside him who I assume presses the buttons

― sleeve, Thursday, February 27, 2014 1:50 PM (nine years ago) bookmarkflaglink

oops sorry this is the challops thread, forgive my reflexive defense

All challopsers are required to accept challenges to duels!

It should be against the law to export Sleaford Mods records beyond their little island.

Someone on Twitter once called them "The Streets for football hooligans" and I've never forgotten it. I'm not even sure it's accurate, I've heard like five Sleaford Mods songs (which was five too many), but I still think it's funny