Agreed that this was a good episode but it took a lot of exasperation to set the characters up on the chessboard in a way to make the story work, the most anti-Trek example of which is making Shaw an anti-Borg bigot who thinks little of dead naming 7. I'm not a "no conflict in Starfleet, ever" purist but you can make a jerk Trek captain (Jellico 4ever) without making him a stupid goon.
― Shartreuse (Leee), Sunday, 12 March 2023 16:59 (one year ago) link
Whew...and I thought *last* week was good.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 16 March 2023 20:16 (one year ago) link
Yeah this was a great episode. I think I can see where things are panning out now, though Ive been wrong plenty before!
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Thursday, 16 March 2023 20:26 (one year ago) link
And we still have some key characters yet to surface! I do have half a guess myself but yeah I'm just content to let this play out some.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 16 March 2023 21:14 (one year ago) link
Great guest star this episode. I didn't expect how good that character resolution was.
I can read the changelings Conspiracy as being a meta-commentary on how the people running Trek behind the scenes are completely different now, resulting in Trek series that feel like imposters.
― formerly abanana (dat), Friday, 17 March 2023 16:06 (one year ago) link
agree this was a pretty great episodeloved the guest reveal, and the storyline fitted them well i thought can worf just kill rafi nowi’m still incredibly tired of her
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 17 March 2023 18:34 (one year ago) link
Worf needs Raffi around so he can do his Weird Dad Worf thing.
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 17 March 2023 19:02 (one year ago) link
:/
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 17 March 2023 19:26 (one year ago) link
fantastic guest but we should have gotten more
― mookieproof, Saturday, 18 March 2023 02:51 (one year ago) link
although i have to say that said guest having rejoined starfleet feels unlikely to me
― mookieproof, Saturday, 18 March 2023 02:54 (one year ago) link
https://www.memorygongs.com/worf_bloodloss.png
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Saturday, 18 March 2023 03:16 (one year ago) link
farkn why cant I post any images succesfully lately.
agree re unlikelihood
― H in Addis, Saturday, 18 March 2023 08:07 (one year ago) link
they're not making it easy for themselves having to compress 20 years of backstory of what happened to Ro in 30 seconds of dialogue but amnesty for any maquis left after getting butchered in the dominion war who are willing to use guerrilla tactics against the Cardassian-Founder axis under some black ops section 31 shenanigans seems plausible enough but the writing doesn't really sell it, being 3/4 baked (which is still an improvement over how half-baked most of the earlier seasons were).
― Philip Nunez, Saturday, 18 March 2023 22:00 (one year ago) link
Yes that was my only issue - i guess we're still spoilerizing this are we Picard makes it clear he has Had It with Ro, she's dead to him because of what she did, he seems quite bitter about it in fact (and I have to be honest I don't recall her leaving TNG being THAT acrimonious?). Then she turns him around completely in one quick conversation? I get they had to speed things along but it was a little wham-bam.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Saturday, 18 March 2023 23:16 (one year ago) link
oh, i don't doubt that starfleet might ultimately take ro back -- i mean two seasons ago a romulan spy was their chief of intelligence; their security is historically awful. i just don't think *she* would do it, particularly when a free bajor needed rebuilding
the whole interaction was necessarily speedy, but i do buy the general sense of it. he really liked and respected (at least??) her in TNG and was torn up when she defected. it's kind of funny how riker, who actually hooked up with her and later sympathized with her defection, was left out of it, but i guess the show isn't called 'riker'. (also beggars belief that these starfleet legends were unaware of her return while she built her career back up to commander, but whatevs)
― mookieproof, Saturday, 18 March 2023 23:37 (one year ago) link
Despite myself and the narrative whiplash and what is imo still kind of a boilerplate story, I agree that this was a genuinely good episode. They even made Worf an interesting character! To Mookie's last point, she said that she even went to the media, yet somehow Picard and Riker were still blindsided by her resilience.
― Shartreuse (Leee), Sunday, 19 March 2023 06:36 (one year ago) link
Also, I'm really torn about how quickly Ro got reintroduced and disposed of, like was Michelle Forbes' availability limited to a one episode guest shot? In which case the slack dithering of the first 3-4 episodes feels a lot more egregious.
― Shartreuse (Leee), Sunday, 19 March 2023 22:35 (one year ago) link
i def agree w that, it felt like too good of a “get” to be one and done.
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 19 March 2023 22:37 (one year ago) link
I don’t know if I’ll continue to enjoy it if it stretches further, but the “revelation” that Picard was never this stoic figure, that he was very emotionally involved in his crew and his relationship to them, plays pretty well. Old man in his dotage, maybe. I thought for a minute that Picard and ~spoiler character~ were being implied as having a deeper bond offscreen, but I think it’s shown in the TNG episodes that he felt tested!It’s not really revisionist per se, but just showing us what it meant to be Captain Jean-Luc Picard. They had to stick to the character and only show brief cracks or absolutely break him (see: Locutus) to make him fallible, and now we’re just getting all cracks
― mh, Sunday, 19 March 2023 22:58 (one year ago) link
^^^ it was interesting and well-done to see the contrast between picard's interaction with sisko re: wolf 359 in the DS9 premiere (instantly went stiff and icy) vs. that with shaw last episode (sad but no excuses)
― mookieproof, Sunday, 19 March 2023 23:05 (one year ago) link
otm
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 19 March 2023 23:38 (one year ago) link
they should throw a wrinkle in it and make it canon that Picard disliked Wesley, though
― mh, Sunday, 19 March 2023 23:45 (one year ago) link
it's not?
― mookieproof, Sunday, 19 March 2023 23:53 (one year ago) link
I just want to hear someone say his name and see Picard noticeably grimace
― mh, Sunday, 19 March 2023 23:55 (one year ago) link
they did the facepalm this episode. they could do "shut up wesley" too.
― formerly abanana (dat), Monday, 20 March 2023 00:25 (one year ago) link
So episode 6 is another memberberry festival, like s3e1. Moriarty turned out to be another unexplained callback instead of a main villain.
I think Worf has said he's a pacifist in every episode he's been in. You'd think at least one writer would notice that the word isn't being used correctly.
― formerly abanana (dat), Thursday, 23 March 2023 13:26 (one year ago) link
There's something gross and unsettling about Picard's casual way of strip-mining fan nostalgia whenthey literally have Kirk's corpse on display in a CIA Section 31 museum and if it ends up being actually intentional self-hating meta-commentary from the writer's room, I am down with it!
― Philip Nunez, Friday, 24 March 2023 16:40 (one year ago) link
Also digging Plummer's power move in refusing to pronounce Picard anglo-style.
― Philip Nunez, Friday, 24 March 2023 16:44 (one year ago) link
As I was saying on FB, they take Kirk's skeleton to the Enterprise-A, pose it in the captain's chair and take selfies with it -- "Hanging with the legend!"
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 24 March 2023 17:11 (one year ago) link
Ha yeah that made me giggle. "Picarrrrr"
Some thoughts:- Moriarty was basically just a security key aka fanservice cameo? Were we meant to think Sec31 set him up or he just decided to protecc the archive himself, like why would he use a melody only Riker would know?- I kept thinking that I didn't like how the changelings goo looks now (lol not that it looked good in DS9), but it occurs to me now that it looks bad because it looks... diseased. On Reddit someone speculated that maybe they never quite cured everyone, and the disease mutated so they effectively banished the incurable from the greater Link, and its those changelings who are bitter and want revenge. Who knows, but its a theory I like!- on this note, might we see the return of the breen? I doubt the Vorta will reappear. Though lol - good excuse for an Iggy cameo.- the ref to a hangar where Geordie cuts his daughter off, is speculated thats the Ent-D being repaired, and that'll come into play because now clearly they need a ship that isnt networked to the compromised fleet. - Expected Spiner to put on the schizopersonality thing, and we were clearly informed - TWICE - that the bot has "all the personalites unintegrated in there". So it was annoying when he shifted to a clearly Lore expression and said "I'm Lore!" ffs
- "We will not be prey. We will be ... friendly energy."
"I don't understand the world anymore."
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 24 March 2023 23:37 (one year ago) link
i definitely was left a tad deflated by this ep vs the last one but i do love the thread of family dynamics running through this season, like Geordi’s admission that as a dad he’s now fearful for his daughter over circumstances he himself would have embraced as a young crewmember - even just having him at odds with her is interesting to watch and 7 talking about her Voyager family was v moving
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 25 March 2023 03:00 (one year ago) link
Yeah "I was reborn there" was lovely.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Saturday, 25 March 2023 03:33 (one year ago) link
and it led to our Voyager rewatch skipping to season 4 so we can watch her arc :Dwhich i only partly saw once so i am excite to revisit
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 25 March 2023 04:06 (one year ago) link
When Sooong started talking about embracing the future I thought they were going to blow up all the old relics. Go full Last Jedi on them. But no, they were just there for nostalgia.
― formerly abanana (dat), Saturday, 25 March 2023 12:45 (one year ago) link
Thought parts of the latest were too crammed with so-so zings, which compounds the wonky pacing of this season. I wish they spent more time fleshing out Sydney's character more before this episode because she's kind of been a plot device before now and her actor still seems a little tentative.
― Shartreuse (Leee), Sunday, 26 March 2023 00:27 (one year ago) link
Loved the clips show style callback to the actual TNG 'Shades of Grey' clips show episode.(that was a tough sentence to write)
― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 30 March 2023 22:19 (one year ago) link
If it hadn’t been posted here yet, there’s a fun interview with Jonathan Frakes that Tawny Newsome and Paul F Thomkins did on the official Rod cast
https://www.audacy.com/podcast/star-trek-the-pod-directive-a7faf/episodes/the-actors-director-with-jonathan-frakes-1d9b7
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Thursday, 30 March 2023 22:55 (one year ago) link
I remembered that the whistling clip had been used before. Had to look up that it was in Shades of Grey. It was also mentioned in one of the movies. Kind of weird that this season is so focused on season 1 of TNG, then skips ahead to the DS9 stories.
Episode 7: Was it coincidence that Jack got telepathic powers right after Troi was kidnapped? Also, kind of silly that the changelings just figured out that they can pretend to be a floor, something Odo did all the time on DS9.
― formerly abanana (dat), Friday, 31 March 2023 04:22 (one year ago) link
thumbs down on the telepathy oofbut otherwise v intenseplummer is so good!
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 31 March 2023 06:05 (one year ago) link
Will admit, nice to see that happen towards the end of this one.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 6 April 2023 20:17 (one year ago) link
should have happened 4 episodes ago
― formerly abanana (dat), Friday, 7 April 2023 02:29 (one year ago) link
My biggest takeaway from this ep: WTF is going on with Deannas accent? She isn't even trying to do it!?
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 7 April 2023 08:01 (one year ago) link
But that aside:
- really wondering re pa-wraiths now- started singing "reeed door, whats that secret you're keeepinnng" at the end- presume frozen changeling shattered into pieces is not gonna... recombobulate, right?- DataLore is going to be a problem later, right?
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 7 April 2023 08:06 (one year ago) link
if vadic’s boss is a pah-wraith we had damn well better get a sisko appearance
i feel like everything can be better explained by jack being, rather than picard’s son, that of the scottish candle ghost
― mookieproof, Friday, 7 April 2023 10:53 (one year ago) link
also the PREVIOUSLY ON title makes me irrationally angry
― mookieproof, Friday, 7 April 2023 10:57 (one year ago) link
deanna joking about being space-raped by a changeling was kind of odd, no? it's beverly who's into that stuff
― formerly abanana (dat), Friday, 7 April 2023 11:25 (one year ago) link
Yeah, disappointed they didn’t use a clip of Majel Barrett’s voice
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 7 April 2023 23:05 (one year ago) link
Clearly this episode was written by a cat person.
As meh as I am about a lot of this, I am enjoying this new version of Worf.
― Shartreuse (Leee), Saturday, 8 April 2023 21:28 (one year ago) link
loved his line about sending each of the crew the heads of his enemies
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 8 April 2023 21:42 (one year ago) link