Yeah, Not Good
― young sussy (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 24 February 2023 04:38 (one year ago) link
handy that this thread popped up, maybe on a related note and i didn't want to butt in with my questions on the actual thread: the trailer for this new Rema Rema film makes a bit of play of what i assume was artwork from the time - decontextualised "anthropological" looking photos of African men, seems a bit awkward to me in 2023, maybe it flew at the time
― satori enabler (Noodle Vague), Friday, 24 February 2023 08:05 (one year ago) link
are you calling leni riefenstahl racist
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Friday, 24 February 2023 09:35 (one year ago) link
lol is that where it's from? ok i googled. cue film of bunch of white post-punk people furrowing their brows and explaining why it's not an ish
― satori enabler (Noodle Vague), Friday, 24 February 2023 09:39 (one year ago) link
idk where it's from I just guessed
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Friday, 24 February 2023 09:46 (one year ago) link
it actually is ffs
― satori enabler (Noodle Vague), Friday, 24 February 2023 09:50 (one year ago) link
https://www.facebook.com/60SecondDocs/videos/apache-skateboards/316255613739266/"I decolonized the skateboard industry"... so are you a racist if you buy any other brand?
― StanM, Friday, 24 February 2023 09:57 (one year ago) link
yeah probably
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Friday, 24 February 2023 11:10 (one year ago) link
Eskimo by The Residents??
At the risk of being accused of naïveté, is this ameliorated at all by the fact that the band, being anonymous, doesn't code as white? How would the album seem if it were made by Inuit musicians?
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 24 February 2023 15:19 (one year ago) link
the "lyrics" alone don't really help that argument. i guess you could argue it's all aimed at the naive-anthropological mindset but then it's still uncomfortably using those tropes
― satori enabler (Noodle Vague), Friday, 24 February 2023 15:25 (one year ago) link
I think Eskimo may be a callback to this bit from the back cover of Meet the Residents:
Sankefinger returned to England to become a rock and roll star, and the Mysterious N. Senada, well, he just disappeared one day. The Residents have ventured to guess that he has probably gone to the arctic regions. He believes some musical link is hidden among the Eskimos of the frozen North.
― c u (crüt), Friday, 24 February 2023 15:27 (one year ago) link
(pardon the typos)
Yeah, look, I love The Residents and Eskimo in particular is an incredible album musically, but at best it is culturally insensitive. It's not racist in terms of them hating 'Eskimos' (itself an outdated term) but it is using the anthropological theme without any consideration for the peoples it refers to - it others and depersonalises them. Most people would consider that a form of racism.
― emil.y, Friday, 24 February 2023 15:31 (one year ago) link
otm, also thanks for that info crut
― satori enabler (Noodle Vague), Friday, 24 February 2023 15:32 (one year ago) link
I guess the part that made me most uncomfortable is at the end where the people start spouting commercial jingles. On the one hand, it's an acknowledgement of the devastating effect of white culture (connected to the liner note that nowadays they spend "most of the day watching reruns on TV"), but it's also a hopeless denial that any resistance is possible.
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 24 February 2023 16:05 (one year ago) link
At the risk of being accused of naïveté, is this ameliorated at all by the fact that the band, being anonymous, doesn't code as white?
well to me they clearly code as being from the South
― frogbs, Friday, 24 February 2023 16:15 (one year ago) link
is this more or less the same as groups like Sun City Girls or CAN dabbling in faux ethnography?
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Friday, 24 February 2023 16:23 (one year ago) link
Basically all faux ethnography is super difficult to navigate imo. It can be illuminating in terms of how colonial history was manufactured, but who are you treading on to make your point? Whose real stories are you dismissing when you create imagined ones?
― emil.y, Friday, 24 February 2023 16:30 (one year ago) link
Putting "Injuns" alongside farmyard animals in that Old Macdonald's Farm thing they do on the b-side of "Diskomo" has always made me cringe.
― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Friday, 24 February 2023 17:15 (one year ago) link
sun city girls' name is bad enough
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Friday, 24 February 2023 17:29 (one year ago) link
it refers to Phoenix AZ, ffs
― obsidian crocogolem (sleeve), Friday, 24 February 2023 17:30 (one year ago) link
lmao
― young sussy (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 24 February 2023 17:32 (one year ago) link
oh
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Friday, 24 February 2023 17:32 (one year ago) link
I assumed it was a big black type thing
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Friday, 24 February 2023 17:33 (one year ago) link
it refers to Phoenix AZ, ffs― obsidian crocogolem (sleeve), Friday, February 24, 2023 10:30 AM (thirty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― obsidian crocogolem (sleeve), Friday, February 24, 2023 10:30 AM (thirty-five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
Specifically, Sun City is a planned retirement community outside of Phoenix where elderly folks ride around on golf carts. Calling yourself "Sun City Girls" is a "joke" about that
― intheblanks, Friday, 24 February 2023 18:11 (one year ago) link
What is the bad connotation of Sun City Girls?
― peace, man, Friday, 24 February 2023 18:33 (one year ago) link
sun city girls using their rich white dad's trust fund money to fly around to the middle east and north africa, recording radio stations and street musicians and releasing it for profit is a discussion to be had maybe. also one of the best bands of all time.
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 24 February 2023 18:36 (one year ago) link
also im sure they didnt make much if any dough on those records but still
xp There is none, unless you believe they're named after the apartheid-era resort in South Africa, which they're not
― Andy the Grasshopper, Friday, 24 February 2023 18:36 (one year ago) link
― peace, man, Friday, February 24, 2023 1:33 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/1200x675/p01gqz2v.jpg
― young sussy (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 24 February 2023 18:36 (one year ago) link
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, February 24, 2023 12:36 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink
yeah but the brothers bishop are half-lebanese and sublime frequencies was co-founded by a north african man. also lmao at the idea that sublime frequencies is raking in the "profit"
― budo jeru, Friday, 24 February 2023 18:43 (one year ago) link
i know i said that!
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 24 February 2023 18:54 (one year ago) link
right, fair. i just i think it's important navigate this stuff carefully, as emil.y says, but i think it's also dicey to reflexively assume or suggest that rock bands who do this must be shitty white appropriators. there are multiple identities, techniques, and motivations at work
― budo jeru, Friday, 24 February 2023 18:57 (one year ago) link
true!
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 24 February 2023 19:00 (one year ago) link
idk it's more about class for me - ime most anyone doing mystical third world-isms comes from some kind of privilege or remove from on-the-ground reality. don't think it makes the art invalid but it's absolutely worth acknowledging / keeping in mind imo.
― ꙮ (map), Friday, 24 February 2023 19:01 (one year ago) link
that's overreaching and tone deaf probably, going to stop posting in this thread now ha
― ꙮ (map), Friday, 24 February 2023 19:02 (one year ago) link
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, February 24, 2023 10:36 AM (twenty-six minutes ago)
one of the guys (not a Bishop) involved in this is Iraqi, his parents are both non-white Iraqi immigrants and I don't think they are rich ... like, his dad owned a convenience store (or two) in the same suburban county where Negativland are from
― sarahell, Friday, 24 February 2023 19:07 (one year ago) link
― frogbs, Friday, February 24, 2023 8:15 AM (two hours ago)
they were/are a San Francisco band ... one of the current members is from the South, but he was not in the band at the time of that album which was made several decades ago ...
― sarahell, Friday, 24 February 2023 19:09 (one year ago) link
The giant eyeball with the blue iris scans as white to me
― young sussy (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 24 February 2023 19:23 (one year ago) link
i mean ... before Eskimo they did Third Reich and Roll ... it's of a different era. If you want to apply contemporary standards to older artwork ... I mean, that's what is going on here.
― sarahell, Friday, 24 February 2023 19:28 (one year ago) link
Hey everybody. Go outside. The weather's nice.
― JackMyFruit, Friday, 24 February 2023 19:38 (one year ago) link
oh i didn't know that, everything they do has that Southern drawl on it
― frogbs, Friday, 24 February 2023 19:39 (one year ago) link
xp
it's cold and dark here, this has been a pretty measured conversation, thanks for your contribution tho
― satori enabler (Noodle Vague), Friday, 24 February 2023 19:40 (one year ago) link
lol it's 12 degrees and there's still 3 inches of ice on my driveway
― frogbs, Friday, 24 February 2023 19:42 (one year ago) link
― frogbs, Friday, February 24, 2023 2:39 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
They sound like Claypool, who is also from the Bay Area
― young sussy (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 24 February 2023 19:44 (one year ago) link
the sun just came out here ... before that it was raining and much colder, thank you jackmyfruit
― sarahell, Friday, 24 February 2023 19:45 (one year ago) link
the drawl doesn't sound Southern to me ... like, I wish I had studied linguistics more so that I can explain more clearly ... but there is a difference
― sarahell, Friday, 24 February 2023 19:48 (one year ago) link
Residents afaik were originally from Shreveport, Louisiana.
― Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Friday, 24 February 2023 19:49 (one year ago) link
Which if true makes sense. Louisiana "southern" doesn't sound like other southern.
― Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Friday, 24 February 2023 19:50 (one year ago) link
― young sussy (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, February 24, 2023 1:44 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
yeah good point
― frogbs, Friday, 24 February 2023 19:55 (one year ago) link