Big mistake killing off ALL the new characters we've learned about AGAIN.feels very video game-y - level complete, on to the next, no looking back.They really gotta stop pulling the same trick every single episode. Almost felt self-parody this time.
Loved elements of it, but this was the first episode that really made me doubt the show.
― Brio2, Monday, 13 February 2023 18:39 (one year ago) link
feeling a little like charlie brown and lucy with the football at this point - especially since the likeable characters die at pretty much the same narrative beat in every episode.
― Brio2, Monday, 13 February 2023 18:46 (one year ago) link
I liked this episode. Get what you’re saying about the repetitive killing off of characters but…it’s nice to see a post apocalyptic setting where they mean it, you know? Probably the most video gamey feeling part of it was Ellie scrambling through the infected horse while Joel tries to pick them off. (If that’s in the game, don’t bother telling me, I don’t care.) I wish Sam had survived though, that was terrible. But let’s see where they go.
― here you go, muttonchops Yaz (gyac), Monday, 13 February 2023 19:00 (one year ago) link
― here you go, muttonchops Yaz (gyac), Monday, 13 February 2023 19:04 (one year ago) link
I asked my wife (who loves the show but knows nothing about the game) what she thinks of them killing off all these characters she's just met, and she sort of shrugged and said "it's the post apocalypse, it makes sense that people would be dying all the time."
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 February 2023 19:08 (one year ago) link
I don't see why the characters inherently have to survive a long time. if it was that easy to stay alive, probably more significant rebellions would have squashed FEDRA and some semblance of restoring government on a less "military dictatorship" level may have begun gaining traction. FEDRA can keep control because it's difficult to avoid turning into a mushroom so it's easier for them to exert power.
not to mention in that ep, teh odds were pretty stacked w/ the rebellion against 4 civilians, a Cordycep army was probably the only thing springin Joel and Ellie to safety
― waiting for a czar to fall (Neanderthal), Monday, 13 February 2023 19:11 (one year ago) link
If nobody dies then it's just another no-stakes feel-good episode of Doctor Who.
― the absence of bikes (f. hazel), Monday, 13 February 2023 19:20 (one year ago) link
Coming to the show from a game-naive point of view, I don't know if it matters in the narrative if our pov characters leave an area with the impression the people they've met there are going to make it long-term. We're on a quest to get somewhere and there's no indication we're going to revisit any of these places. I don't need a spin-off show about the Kansas City rebellion.
If anything, we're seeing the different ways that people are not going to make it. The Bill/Frank episode was the happy ending, two people finding love, creating social bonds outside of their lonely community, and making it to what passes for old age in the post-apocalypse. That was, comparatively, a triumph compared to the FEDRA-controlled camps and the vengeance-fueled KC faction
― mh, Monday, 13 February 2023 19:33 (one year ago) link
I kinda like that take. Not who is going to go, but how are they going to go, and on what terms?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 February 2023 19:36 (one year ago) link
It's right there in the title
― mh, Monday, 13 February 2023 19:38 (one year ago) link
y’all ever read Roadside Picnic, Dhalgren, things of that nature?
― mh, Monday, 13 February 2023 19:55 (one year ago) link
tbf I’ve never gotten around to The Road so I’m missing that part of the post-apocalyptic narrative milieu
― mh, Monday, 13 February 2023 19:57 (one year ago) link
The Road is like Last of Us without the sense of humor.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 February 2023 19:57 (one year ago) link
I don't have an issue with people dying, and it has been effective and of course it's logical for the world. Just feeling structurally that the deaths are coming with such a regular rhythm in the storytelling it just feels formulaic. Never a great sign when you can envision what the SNL parody of a show would be.
― Brio2, Monday, 13 February 2023 20:02 (one year ago) link
I, for one, welcome the idea of the cast of SNL being infected with zombieshrooms and dying horribly
(Now that Vanessa Bayer has left. I liked her and so do not want her to die of shroomzombiness.)
― Auf Der Martini (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:06 (one year ago) link
also the incessant death around them has the unintended and maybe surprising effect of making Joel and Ellie seem invincible, rather than vulnerable. They're Kirks in a sea of red shirts.
― Brio2, Monday, 13 February 2023 20:10 (one year ago) link
xp sounds like a Sarah Sherman sketch tbh
― mh, Monday, 13 February 2023 20:10 (one year ago) link
It IS formulaic, the video game is an extended riff on the escort mission video game trope, so at the end of every "chapter" you're going to see all the NPCs die or otherwise leave the narrative so the next chapter can begin with Joel and Ellie alone again.
― the absence of bikes (f. hazel), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:11 (one year ago) link
I don't think Dhalgren would make a very satisfying video game.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:12 (one year ago) link
I don't feel like Joel and Ellie are invincible because I've only known these characters for a few hours of screen time, and we were introduced to Joel + Ellie + Tess who were together for two episodes of the five we've seen, and Ellie's already been bitten once. She just happens to be the magical child.
― mh, Monday, 13 February 2023 20:14 (one year ago) link
i kinda like the way the show operates in dialog with the conventions of video game plot, ephemeral "missions" and all. because in the game (which nb i have not played), joel and ellie are not invincible, and in fact die horribly dozens upon hundreds of times per playthrough. it's fun for me to think of the series as a compilation of all the successful playthroughs, and all the times that joel accidentally fell off a building are on the cutting room floor.
― sault bae (voodoo chili), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:16 (one year ago) link
turns out every action movie ever made is just a cheater's speed run
― the absence of bikes (f. hazel), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:18 (one year ago) link
― here you go, muttonchops Yaz (gyac), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:20 (one year ago) link
unrelated, but i just learned that the actress who plays marlene (in the game and the show) also played alyx in the half-life series. mind blown!
― sault bae (voodoo chili), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:21 (one year ago) link
Travels With Charley: Post-Apocalyptic Remix
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:21 (one year ago) link
huh - I hadn't thought of the (obvious) fact that the protaganists inevitably die horribly again and again in the game whereas that can never happen in a regular narrative, kind of an interesting difference narratively.
Any way didn't mean to harp on and on about the deaths. It's really more of a pacing/narrative construction thing than anything. Maybe I just wanted to see Ellie and Sam hang out a bit more, that was nice.
― Brio2, Monday, 13 February 2023 20:27 (one year ago) link
it's fun for me to think of the series as a compilation of all the successful playthroughs
the protagonists inevitably die horribly again and again in the game whereas that can never happen in a regular narrative, kind of an interesting difference narratively
This is literally the plot of "Edge of Tomorrow" - a film that was not adapted from a video game but borrows video game tropes. I am not a gamer (of this sort_ myself but I can see the same tropes nodded at in "Groundhog Day," "Ready Player One," and "Everything Everywhere All at Once."
Infinite tries to achieve a goal, frequent catastrophic disappointments, frequent tragedies - video game culture imports and adapts the preexisting epic and picaresque plot structures.
In a chicken/egg way I do believe that games and scripted entertainment and reality TV are on a collision course to eventually be all one type of product. Not sure exactly how this will play out but additional syntheses seem inevitable as long as the audience with disposable income is congruent with the audience for this sort of entertainment.
― Auf Der Martini (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:29 (one year ago) link
I re-watched Edge Of Tomorrow this weekend. It really deserves more love than it gets; I think it’s one of Tom Cruise’s best movies.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:31 (one year ago) link
It's great, Cruise makes a surprisingly great loser (acting!).
Was it the New Yorker piece on "The Last of Us" that brought up the issue of dying and dramatic stakes? I think either Mazin or Druckmann note the dynamic of video games is indeed "dying" and again and again, and the same goes for NPCs who are killed again and again and then reset for another round. Of course that doesn't work in a TV show, and they apparently put a lot of thought into the depiction of violence (vs. the game's more ... generous approach to the same).
A funny easter egg that game people liked about this episode is that when Perry is killed by the big monster fungus, his death is a direct nod to the way Joel repeatedly dies to the monster in the game.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 February 2023 20:37 (one year ago) link
NPCs who are killed again and again and then reset for another round
Kinda the job description of a zombie tbf
― Auf Der Martini (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:38 (one year ago) link
xp the nymag piece by andrea long chu definitely brought up that issue
― sault bae (voodoo chili), Monday, 13 February 2023 20:44 (one year ago) link
"Probably the most video gamey feeling part of it was Ellie scrambling through the infected horse"
I like this typo because of the specific alternate universe of video game tropes it imagines
― Evan, Monday, 13 February 2023 20:47 (one year ago) link
lol I actually was like woah I missed the infected horse!
― Brio2, Monday, 13 February 2023 20:52 (one year ago) link
Which is the bad Romero sequel where they realize the zombies might be perfectly happy eating animals rather than people? "Survival of the Dead"?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 February 2023 20:55 (one year ago) link
"Groundhog Day," "Ready Player One," and "Everything Everywhere All at Once."
― assert (matttkkkk), Monday, 13 February 2023 22:23 (one year ago) link
Bandersnatch
― waiting for a czar to fall (Neanderthal), Monday, 13 February 2023 22:28 (one year ago) link
man that ending wrecked mei think i hate the apocalypse, it’s TOO SADbut yeah re characters dying each episode, i mean it’s hard to invest to have them go out like that each time but i like it for the reasons mh noted upthreadand realizing that lynskey’s character wanted henry so that she could kill sam in front of him and just yknow get down with her old testament self was *shudder* … i was glad to see her go at that point, nowhere to go but down from there
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 14 February 2023 06:18 (one year ago) link
Just one more person saying "Edge of Tomorrow" has been underappreciated
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 14 February 2023 06:24 (one year ago) link
Melanie Lynskey has been killing people since 1994, y'all
― Auf Der Martini (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 14 February 2023 07:12 (one year ago) link
First episode of this was nice enough - did a good job of recreating the opening parts of the game (which is all I've played). I've been reticent about this because I mean, zombies AGAIN? But it seems to at least be trying a few new tricks at least.
I don't know if this is a problem with me and my dwindling attention span but I find a lot of American action-dramas like this a bit slow-going a lot of the time. Westworld was the first time I noticed this - lots of time being used so that caharacters can gaze into the middle-distance while dramatic music plays. I'm a busy man with things to do.
― the forces of darkness making making us laugh ourselves into DEATH?? (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2023 11:49 (one year ago) link
How do you get to be like the huge fungus monster guy who came out of the pit?And why did he rip dude's head off I thought they were all just wanting to infect and assimilate?
― nashwan, Tuesday, 14 February 2023 12:16 (one year ago) link
boss level portobello has achieved sentience and is a reet nasty one
― calzino, Tuesday, 14 February 2023 12:23 (one year ago) link
zombies AGAIN?
In your headIn your headThey're still biting
― Auf Der Martini (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 14 February 2023 12:41 (one year ago) link
How do you get to be like the huge fungus monster guy who came out of the pit?
The game mythology is you get infected, then you go a little nuts, then you start to sprout, then you go full mushroom head, but if left alone for years or however long, the mushrooms cover your entire body in layers, making you pretty tough (in both senses). Why you would then turn into a rage monster, I have no idea. Maybe it was just mad to have been locked in the basement for so long.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 14 February 2023 13:03 (one year ago) link
there is def no thought put into it beyond “what if there was a really big guy,” this was the case with resident evil as well, it’s fine
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 14 February 2023 13:08 (one year ago) link
lol for sure that was the case with Resident Evil games/movies.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 14 February 2023 13:13 (one year ago) link
Yup working backwards from the game developer incentive to make a "boss" style zombie enemy.
― Evan, Tuesday, 14 February 2023 13:13 (one year ago) link
I was listening to the official podcast, and it provides a pretty fascinating glimpse into the choices they made for the show. For example, why Sam, who is not deaf in the game, is deaf in the show. As they point out, in the game you never spend any time with just Henry and Sam, it's always those two along with Ellie and Joel. So Mazin thought to himself, hmm, how do we distinguish the relationship between Henry and Sam so that it's not more or less replicating the parental dynamic of Ellie and Joel? Their decision was to make Sam deaf, to give their relationship a different sort of intimacy, but also one less reliant on standard chatter or banter.
And then the next step was to find an actor who worked for what they wanted to do, which as you might expect, was kind of tough. They needed a black actor between the ages of 8-11 who was smaller than Bella Ramsey (who is not big), fluent in ASL (which is not a sure thing at that age, and also not Black ASL, which is also a thing), who, at the end of all that, could also act. They were striking out everywhere, so much so that Mazin eventually had their casting person put out an open call over *Twitter*. They thought they would get dozens of responses, but apparently they got ... five.
I love this kind of nuts and bolts stuff that reveals just how much thought and work they put into this adaptation. On the game thread I posted a keynote from Neil Druckmann that was filmed right after the game came out in 2013, and it was similarly illuminating.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 14 February 2023 21:36 (one year ago) link
That's fascinating. And the actor they got was so good!
― Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Wednesday, 15 February 2023 00:06 (one year ago) link
he was so good
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 15 February 2023 00:12 (one year ago) link