Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2023

When Le Tigre announced their upcoming reunion tour recently, they tweeted, "Tell your mom and her friends! We're going on tour!"

"Your mom and her friends" is the perfect description of Sheryl Crow's audience. She's a major artist.

I was on a Zoom call with three rock-critic-type friends last night (all of us 55-65), and going through the list, the greatest consensus was for Missy Elliott, Joy Division/New Order, Cyndi Lauper, and the Spinners. My one friend wanted to put everyone in, prompting another to say that if you put in Sheryl Crow, you may as well put in Tommy Tutone. Which was harsh but made laugh.

LMAO, spot on. I agree, except for Sheryl Crow I'd like to see everyone else get in. Maybe it could be an Oprah-type surprise - "You get in! You get in! Every-body gets in the Hall (but Crow)!"

clemenza, per wiki he actually had a FIRST hit before Jenny

but yeah, I presume someone making this argument is exaggerating

For all arguments of the form "why ___ but not ___," or "why ___ before ___," I will revert to tapping the sign that says "yes it is arbitrary and capricious and fickle; so is fame; so are all human constructs." Because it is done by ballot and by humans, it will inevitably exhibit all the flaws of said humans. To wit, being arbitrary and capricious and fickle and - GASP - inconsistent.

Honestly it's either this discourse, or the aforementioned "set this stupid institution and everything associated with it on fire and decre that this misguided enterprise should have been drowned in (conveniently nearby) Lake Erie before it even had a chance to impinge on our conscious minds with its ridiculously arbitrary and capricious and fickle nature."

Sheryl Crow is probably closer to Mellencamp than Tutone if we’re talking longevity and cultural relevance

The friend who wanted Sheryl Crow in, she was his second choice and he made a pretty impassioned case for her, mentioning a couple of songs I didn't know at all. I do like "Every Day Is a Winding Road." "All I Wanna Do," too, though not as much. Always hated the way she sings "This is L.A.," like I'm too much a rube to understand.

Crow's influence is more pronounced than ever.

Soundgarden def better than SPs IMO, just a massive beast of a band, far better than anyone might remember, this almost liquid heavy sound that was so dense and dark, not the same style at all but some of the peaks of badmotorfinger give me the same feeling as the most out there live jam albums of miles Davis and co from the ‘70s.

o t m

I always took crow saying “this is l.a.” as not an explanation but an slightly stoned exclamation of wonder

Mellencamp's HOF argument really rests on a few records, but I think they had a much more substantial impact than Crow's. He also doesn't have the ugly controversy with Kevin Gilbert et al hanging over his head - it was kind of the opposite where his real breakthrough came from asserting more control over his own work and career.

This may not be up to date, but it's a pretty detailed list of artists not in, how many years they've been eligible, and how many times they've been nominated before:

https://futurerocklegends.com/The_Snub_List/

i saw sheryl in a giant field in central park with big swooping tv cameras
i saw the guitarist who wrote that tommy tutone song play to a motley group of townies

...and it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall

Genuine Lol

haha

Interesting find, clem ... The never-nommed list and how long they've been eligible is pretty eye-opening

Johnny Burnette and the Rock N Roll Trio	42
Connie Francis	40
Jan & Dean	38
Dick Dale	36
Peter, Paul & Mary	36
Toots & the Maytals	36
Barry White	35
Cher	33
The Guess Who	33
The Sonics	33
Captain Beefheart	32
Jim Croce	32
Love	32
The Monkees	32
Scott Walker	32
Tommy James & the Shondells	32
Harry Nilsson	31
Can	30
Jethro Tull	30
Silver Apples	30
The Carpenters	29
King Crimson	29
Kool & the Gang	29
Nick Drake	29
Three Dog Night	29
Diana Ross	28
Emerson, Lake & Palmer	28
Sparks	27
Big Star	26
Blue Öyster Cult	26
Neu!	26
The Pointer Sisters	25
Bad Company	24
Brian Eno	24
The Commodores	24
Television	23
The Damned	22
The Runaways	22
Björk	21
The Buzzcocks	21
The Jam	21
Suicide	21
XTC	21
The B-52's	20
Black Flag	20
Siouxsie & the Banshees	20
X	20
Bauhaus	19
The Dead Kennedys	19
Echo and the Bunnymen	19
The Specials	19
"Weird Al" Yankovic	19
INXS	18
Ozzy Osbourne	18
Billy Idol	17
Hüsker Dü	17
Mötley Crüe	17
New Order	17
Sonic Youth	16
Pantera	15
Slayer	15
The Flaming Lips	14
The Jesus and Mary Chain	14
Nick Cave	14
Pet Shop Boys	14
Sade	14
Faith No More	13
Megadeth	13
My Bloody Valentine	13
Stone Roses	13
Gloria Estefan	11
Pixies	11
De La Soul	10
Fugazi	10
Massive Attack	10
The Offspring	10
Pavement	9
Queen Latifah	9
Alice In Chains	8
Blur	8
Mariah Carey	8
Smashing Pumpkins	8
Aphex Twin	7
PJ Harvey	7
Tori Amos	7
Nas	6
Stone Temple Pilots	6
TLC	6
Tool	6
Wu-Tang Clan	6
Outkast	5
Daft Punk	4
Oasis	4
Sleater-Kinney	4
Weezer	4
Wilco	4
The Chemical Brothers	3
Belle & Sebastian	2
Queens of the Stone Age	1

A bunch of those would probably be in already if there was a larger British or European presence in the committee and voting pools.

Guessing Scott Walker, Fairport Convention, Can, King Crimson, Nick Drake, Sparks, Neu!, Brian Eno, Television, The Damned, Wire, The Buzzcocks, The Jam, XTC, Echo and the Bunnymen, The Specials, The Smiths, New Order, The Jesus and Mary Chain, Nick Cave, Pet Shop Boys, Stone Roses, Massive Attack, Blur and PJ Harvey among many others.

However will Cher and Brian Eno and Massive Attack and Sleater-Kinney survive without the recognition of the HoF? One wonders. Perhaps they are weeping now about the sting of this unconscionable snub. Or maybe (like sensible people) they understand that is a very silly circular conversation and are glad not to have to pretend it is something else, even for an evening.

I think Greil Marcus has made a good point on that. For the artists you mention, sure, it means nothing. But for some of the older artists who are in there, and for many older artists who aren't, it sometimes means a great deal (Marcus bases this on conversations he's had):

I’ve often thought of the Hall of Fame as a terrible if not ridiculous idea, mostly because I hated the stricture of, in this most democratic realm of free speech, elevating some over others. I thought of it as a joke, until I met musicians--most vehemently, Mary Weiss of the Shangri-Las--who made plain how much it would mean to them to be included, what a validation it would be, and how excluded, how cast on the garbage heap of those who might as well have never been born, which is to say never played on the radio, they felt over never having the thrill of seeing their names on the wall. So, I took it more seriously.

That sucks if Mary feels that way :(

She doesn't/shouldn't need the validation

xp OTM. I mean, that's pretty much true for the Oscars too - it's silly to consider them representative of what's really the best films out there, especially this year. But it's obvious they mean a LOT to people when they win them - the fact that it's more or less coming from their peers probably helps (politics and campaigning aside). So it feels dickish to shit on something they're happy to get.

Don't forget what Tom Waits said after he was inducted: "I never really cared about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but now I am surprised to discover how much I DO care."

Among many reasons they won't ever get in, The Guess Who would be dangerous for Burton Cummings' tendency to insult his other band members when receiving awards, which got him cut off at the Juno Awards.

xp This is the same point I've made on here re: The Grammys... they mean a lot to artists (some of whom I care about), despite all the issues/shortcomings.

From the 500 Songs episode on “Leader Of The Pack”:

Mary now occasionally performs live, and will give the occasional interview, though she never reveals much about herself or the group. She detests them being called a “girl group”, saying that they were rock and roll singers and shouldn’t be defined by their gender — after spending her whole life since she was fifteen having her public image controlled by other people, and for much of that time not being able to work in her chosen field, and after seeing the damage that was done to her sister and their friends, she will now only do things and talk about her life on her own terms. And who can blame her?

I agree about Mary Weiss, and she's definitely not someone who carries around that disappointment of never having been played on the radio--the Shangri-Las have never left the radio, even if they've probably been reduced to "Leader of the Pack," and their many other great songs have mostly disappeared.

I wish the Guess Who would get in, though their chances probably run close to 0%.

Among many reasons they won't ever get in, The Guess Who would be dangerous for Burton Cummings' tendency to insult his other band members when receiving awards, which got him cut off at the Juno Awards.

Similarly, when Quincy Jones inducted Nesuhi Ertegun in 1991 his speech was mostly about his own achievements, and he said little about Ertegun. Before the speech, it was assumed that Jones would get in the next year, or the year after…but because his self-serving speech ruffled some feathers, he didn’t actually make it in until 2013.

Seeing as Three Dog Night and the Guess Who won't ever get in on their own, I think they should go in together like Joy Division/New Order. This should be an option for meteoric Top-40 behemoths who aren't taken seriously artistically.

But but but they didn't induct Poco/the Eagles/James Gang together with Linda Rondstadt. Nor did they lump the Yardbirds in with Cream/Blind Faith/Eric Clapton.

For the second time today, I'm not sure if we're just circling around trying to out-deadpan each other...I don't actually think the Guess Who and Three Dog Night should go in together.

Nor did they lump the Yardbirds in with Cream/Blind Faith/Eric Clapton.

― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, February 3, 2023 12:38 PM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

in fairness, clapton was the third best yardbirds guitarist

Will New Order perform with Hook at the "Ceremony"?

I’m thinking they’re more likely to perform with Ian Curtis

After their nomination was announced, Hook said an induction could serve as "an olive branch" - i.e. he'd be willing to play with New Order and make amends. (At least for one night.)

in fairness, clapton was the third best yardbirds guitarist

LMAO. Funny how he was replaced with much better guitarists after leaving the Yardbirds and the Bluesbreakers.

Surprised to see Alice In Chains not in yet, but I guess they’ll eventually get to inducing all of the four big grunge bands. Can’t see Stone Temple Pilots, Bush, Tad, The Melvins, Mudhoney, Silverchair, L7, Nickelback, Hole, Dinosaur Jr, etc getting over the bar but then again, nothing surprises me at this point.

Can't wait to hear the arguments for Creed once they're nominated. "They're MAJOR artists - among rock bands, only Linkin Park and the Beatles sold more records in the '90s. Creed IS rock n' roll!"

Which inducted band would have caused most incredulity if you went back in time to the year of their debut and told rock fans "this act will one day be in the Rock Hall of Fame"? Depeche Mode?

Mellencamp, or I should say Johnny Cougar since it would be the debut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chestnut_Street_Incident

Sheryl Crow rocks. I love that story about her crashing the closed audition and landing a gig as MJ's backing vocalist. Hollywood baybee!!

Every time I hear Sheryl Crow’s voice I think, “What’s this an ad for?” Turns out she indeed started out as a professional jingle singer. No idea why she chose to retain that approach to singing throughout her career. I do like “If It Makes You Happy,” though.

It's Willie, but I'm voting for Sheryl Crow because of all the disrespect in this thread. She does rock!!

Which inducted band would have caused most incredulity if you went back in time to the year of their debut

Billy Joel/Attila?

Attila wouldn't really count as Billy's debut, he recorded two albums with the Hassles before that (which admittedly no-one would have called Hall of Fame-worthy either).

Three Imaginary Boys probably would have seemed less promising than Speak and Spell (from the standpoint of what in 1979 seemed like history-making rock and roll).

Voted Kate Bush just because she's made the most music I like, and a little bit because her induction would tip the applecart a bit in terms of the hall and her own determination to do everything her way. Would she sail to Cleveland to perform?

I mean, she must be one of very few nominees who has never performed a live concert on American soil (Saturday Night Live doesn't count). Joy Division also, but they are sneaking in with New Order.

‘It’s a No From Me’: Two Rock Hall Voters Dissect This Year’s Ballot

https://www.vulture.com/2023/03/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-2023-voters-share-ballots.html

Their take on the Spinners is awful:

Voter 1: They were a great vocal group for the Motown sound. But I feel like they didn’t have a huge impact on other peers of theirs. They’re on the bubble for me. They’re going to just fall short. They definitely had some jams. “I’ll Be Around” and “Working My Way Back to You” are great songs. But again, they’re almost too ephemeral.

They didn't get big until they left Motown and hooked up with Thom Bell - if anything they had a tremendous impact on the PHILLY sound. They were the most successful practitioners of that music, commercially and artistically.

Voter 2: I like the Spinners, but I don’t know if they’re the right fit here. I appreciate the music, but it’s like we break the mold for some things and not others. I’d love to hear the counterargument, but I don’t think the overall influence versus popularity adds up. For me, it’s too far back. I can’t name the lineage of groups that were influenced by them.

Given how often they're sampled, this is baffling. It's not even limited to samples - someone I know tried to make the argument that one of Willow Smith's singles was this underrated masterpiece after it blew up on TikTok, and as soon as I played the opening, it sounded like the backing track was based on 'I'll Be There' but in a lower key.

With the Spinners, I'd count whatever influence they had as an extra; just on how great their music was alone (by which I really mean a representative compilation--although at least one regular-issue album is a classic, 1973's The Spinners), they should go in. Their chart-success, too, although again, I think there should be a level of excellence that gets someone in regardless. (You mean "I'll Be Around," right?) Which, I realize, is the most subjective call of all.

I suppose this doesn't bode well for them going in.

I don’t know if they’re the right fit here.

That’s the same horseshit argument MTV execs made in the early ‘80s for excluding Black acts while putting Hall & Oates in heavy rotation.

(Hall & Oates were inducted in 2014.)

"They didn't get big until they left Motown and hooked up with Thom Bell"

Yes--"It's a Shame" is great, but it's prelude, not a defining song in the way that "I'll Be Around" and "Could It Be I'm Falling In Love" are.

The one voter’s point re: why slayer should get in before Iron Maiden:

I think for somebody from metal to be in, we should nominate Slayer for the Hall of Fame. They had a great career. They headlined stadiums around the world and arenas, and they left a mark.

I’m pro-Slayer but…they’re talking about Maiden right?

They headlined stadiums around the world and arenas, and they left a mark.

you'd be hard pressed to find a band with a more international fanbase and has toured more places than maiden