Not to be Cap'n Save-a-Sheryl but her career has been longer and more hit-studded than that of Mr. Tutone. She had eight years with a dozen charting singles and ten charting albums.
He had exactly two of each.
― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 3 February 2023 15:49 (one year ago) link
I think he was exaggerating for comic effect.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 15:52 (one year ago) link
(Tommy Tutone had a second hit?)
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 15:53 (one year ago) link
i saw sheryl in a giant field in central park with big swooping tv cameras all over the place and, like, keith richards and everything. i saw the guitarist who wrote that tommy tutone song play to a motley group of townies sitting in folding chairs in downtown glen cove. https://patch.com/new-york/glencove/sidemen-featuring-legendary-uptown-horns-play-glen-cove-july-8th-0
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 3 February 2023 15:57 (one year ago) link
When Le Tigre announced their upcoming reunion tour recently, they tweeted, "Tell your mom and her friends! We're going on tour!"
"Your mom and her friends" is the perfect description of Sheryl Crow's audience. She's a major artist.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 3 February 2023 16:19 (one year ago) link
I was on a Zoom call with three rock-critic-type friends last night (all of us 55-65), and going through the list, the greatest consensus was for Missy Elliott, Joy Division/New Order, Cyndi Lauper, and the Spinners. My one friend wanted to put everyone in, prompting another to say that if you put in Sheryl Crow, you may as well put in Tommy Tutone. Which was harsh but made laugh.
LMAO, spot on. I agree, except for Sheryl Crow I'd like to see everyone else get in. Maybe it could be an Oprah-type surprise - "You get in! You get in! Every-body gets in the Hall (but Crow)!"
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:21 (one year ago) link
clemenza, per wiki he actually had a FIRST hit before Jenny
but yeah, I presume someone making this argument is exaggerating
For all arguments of the form "why ___ but not ___," or "why ___ before ___," I will revert to tapping the sign that says "yes it is arbitrary and capricious and fickle; so is fame; so are all human constructs." Because it is done by ballot and by humans, it will inevitably exhibit all the flaws of said humans. To wit, being arbitrary and capricious and fickle and - GASP - inconsistent.
Honestly it's either this discourse, or the aforementioned "set this stupid institution and everything associated with it on fire and decre that this misguided enterprise should have been drowned in (conveniently nearby) Lake Erie before it even had a chance to impinge on our conscious minds with its ridiculously arbitrary and capricious and fickle nature."
― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 3 February 2023 16:22 (one year ago) link
Sheryl Crow is probably closer to Mellencamp than Tutone if we’re talking longevity and cultural relevance
― omar little, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:30 (one year ago) link
The friend who wanted Sheryl Crow in, she was his second choice and he made a pretty impassioned case for her, mentioning a couple of songs I didn't know at all. I do like "Every Day Is a Winding Road." "All I Wanna Do," too, though not as much. Always hated the way she sings "This is L.A.," like I'm too much a rube to understand.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:32 (one year ago) link
Crow's influence is more pronounced than ever.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 February 2023 16:32 (one year ago) link
Soundgarden def better than SPs IMO, just a massive beast of a band, far better than anyone might remember, this almost liquid heavy sound that was so dense and dark, not the same style at all but some of the peaks of badmotorfinger give me the same feeling as the most out there live jam albums of miles Davis and co from the ‘70s.
― omar little, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:32 (one year ago) link
o t m
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, 3 February 2023 16:33 (one year ago) link
I always took crow saying “this is l.a.” as not an explanation but an slightly stoned exclamation of wonder
― omar little, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:33 (one year ago) link
Mellencamp's HOF argument really rests on a few records, but I think they had a much more substantial impact than Crow's. He also doesn't have the ugly controversy with Kevin Gilbert et al hanging over his head - it was kind of the opposite where his real breakthrough came from asserting more control over his own work and career.
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:36 (one year ago) link
This may not be up to date, but it's a pretty detailed list of artists not in, how many years they've been eligible, and how many times they've been nominated before:
https://futurerocklegends.com/The_Snub_List/
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:51 (one year ago) link
i saw sheryl in a giant field in central park with big swooping tv cameras i saw the guitarist who wrote that tommy tutone song play to a motley group of townies
...and it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 3 February 2023 17:16 (one year ago) link
Genuine Lol
― listened to "Mississippi" one take too long (morrisp), Friday, 3 February 2023 17:19 (one year ago) link
haha
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 3 February 2023 17:25 (one year ago) link
Interesting find, clem ... The never-nommed list and how long they've been eligible is pretty eye-opening
Johnny Burnette and the Rock N Roll Trio 42Connie Francis 40Jan & Dean 38Dick Dale 36Peter, Paul & Mary 36Toots & the Maytals 36Barry White 35Cher 33The Guess Who 33The Sonics 33Captain Beefheart 32Jim Croce 32Love 32The Monkees 32Scott Walker 32Tommy James & the Shondells 32Harry Nilsson 31Can 30Jethro Tull 30Silver Apples 30The Carpenters 29King Crimson 29Kool & the Gang 29Nick Drake 29Three Dog Night 29Diana Ross 28Emerson, Lake & Palmer 28Sparks 27Big Star 26Blue Öyster Cult 26Neu! 26The Pointer Sisters 25Bad Company 24Brian Eno 24The Commodores 24Television 23The Damned 22The Runaways 22Björk 21The Buzzcocks 21The Jam 21Suicide 21XTC 21The B-52's 20Black Flag 20Siouxsie & the Banshees 20X 20Bauhaus 19The Dead Kennedys 19Echo and the Bunnymen 19The Specials 19"Weird Al" Yankovic 19INXS 18Ozzy Osbourne 18Billy Idol 17Hüsker Dü 17Mötley Crüe 17New Order 17Sonic Youth 16Pantera 15Slayer 15The Flaming Lips 14The Jesus and Mary Chain 14Nick Cave 14Pet Shop Boys 14Sade 14Faith No More 13Megadeth 13My Bloody Valentine 13Stone Roses 13Gloria Estefan 11Pixies 11De La Soul 10Fugazi 10Massive Attack 10The Offspring 10Pavement 9Queen Latifah 9Alice In Chains 8Blur 8Mariah Carey 8Smashing Pumpkins 8Aphex Twin 7PJ Harvey 7Tori Amos 7Nas 6Stone Temple Pilots 6TLC 6Tool 6Wu-Tang Clan 6Outkast 5Daft Punk 4Oasis 4Sleater-Kinney 4Weezer 4Wilco 4The Chemical Brothers 3Belle & Sebastian 2Queens of the Stone Age 1
― عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Friday, 3 February 2023 17:41 (one year ago) link
A bunch of those would probably be in already if there was a larger British or European presence in the committee and voting pools.
Guessing Scott Walker, Fairport Convention, Can, King Crimson, Nick Drake, Sparks, Neu!, Brian Eno, Television, The Damned, Wire, The Buzzcocks, The Jam, XTC, Echo and the Bunnymen, The Specials, The Smiths, New Order, The Jesus and Mary Chain, Nick Cave, Pet Shop Boys, Stone Roses, Massive Attack, Blur and PJ Harvey among many others.
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 17:48 (one year ago) link
However will Cher and Brian Eno and Massive Attack and Sleater-Kinney survive without the recognition of the HoF? One wonders. Perhaps they are weeping now about the sting of this unconscionable snub. Or maybe (like sensible people) they understand that is a very silly circular conversation and are glad not to have to pretend it is something else, even for an evening.
― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 3 February 2023 17:55 (one year ago) link
I think Greil Marcus has made a good point on that. For the artists you mention, sure, it means nothing. But for some of the older artists who are in there, and for many older artists who aren't, it sometimes means a great deal (Marcus bases this on conversations he's had):
I’ve often thought of the Hall of Fame as a terrible if not ridiculous idea, mostly because I hated the stricture of, in this most democratic realm of free speech, elevating some over others. I thought of it as a joke, until I met musicians--most vehemently, Mary Weiss of the Shangri-Las--who made plain how much it would mean to them to be included, what a validation it would be, and how excluded, how cast on the garbage heap of those who might as well have never been born, which is to say never played on the radio, they felt over never having the thrill of seeing their names on the wall. So, I took it more seriously.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:05 (one year ago) link
That sucks if Mary feels that way :(
She doesn't/shouldn't need the validation
― listened to "Mississippi" one take too long (morrisp), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:08 (one year ago) link
xp OTM. I mean, that's pretty much true for the Oscars too - it's silly to consider them representative of what's really the best films out there, especially this year. But it's obvious they mean a LOT to people when they win them - the fact that it's more or less coming from their peers probably helps (politics and campaigning aside). So it feels dickish to shit on something they're happy to get.
Don't forget what Tom Waits said after he was inducted: "I never really cared about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but now I am surprised to discover how much I DO care."
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:08 (one year ago) link
Among many reasons they won't ever get in, The Guess Who would be dangerous for Burton Cummings' tendency to insult his other band members when receiving awards, which got him cut off at the Juno Awards.
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:11 (one year ago) link
xp This is the same point I've made on here re: The Grammys... they mean a lot to artists (some of whom I care about), despite all the issues/shortcomings.
― listened to "Mississippi" one take too long (morrisp), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:13 (one year ago) link
From the 500 Songs episode on “Leader Of The Pack”:
Mary now occasionally performs live, and will give the occasional interview, though she never reveals much about herself or the group. She detests them being called a “girl group”, saying that they were rock and roll singers and shouldn’t be defined by their gender — after spending her whole life since she was fifteen having her public image controlled by other people, and for much of that time not being able to work in her chosen field, and after seeing the damage that was done to her sister and their friends, she will now only do things and talk about her life on her own terms. And who can blame her?
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:13 (one year ago) link
I agree about Mary Weiss, and she's definitely not someone who carries around that disappointment of never having been played on the radio--the Shangri-Las have never left the radio, even if they've probably been reduced to "Leader of the Pack," and their many other great songs have mostly disappeared.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:13 (one year ago) link
I wish the Guess Who would get in, though their chances probably run close to 0%.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:15 (one year ago) link
Among many reasons they won't ever get in, The Guess Who would be dangerous for Burton Cummings' tendency to insult his other band members when receiving awards, which got him cut off at the Juno Awards.Similarly, when Quincy Jones inducted Nesuhi Ertegun in 1991 his speech was mostly about his own achievements, and he said little about Ertegun. Before the speech, it was assumed that Jones would get in the next year, or the year after…but because his self-serving speech ruffled some feathers, he didn’t actually make it in until 2013.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:19 (one year ago) link
Seeing as Three Dog Night and the Guess Who won't ever get in on their own, I think they should go in together like Joy Division/New Order. This should be an option for meteoric Top-40 behemoths who aren't taken seriously artistically.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:22 (one year ago) link
But but but they didn't induct Poco/the Eagles/James Gang together with Linda Rondstadt. Nor did they lump the Yardbirds in with Cream/Blind Faith/Eric Clapton.
― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:38 (one year ago) link
For the second time today, I'm not sure if we're just circling around trying to out-deadpan each other...I don't actually think the Guess Who and Three Dog Night should go in together.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:51 (one year ago) link
Nor did they lump the Yardbirds in with Cream/Blind Faith/Eric Clapton.
― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, February 3, 2023 12:38 PM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
in fairness, clapton was the third best yardbirds guitarist
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:59 (one year ago) link
Will New Order perform with Hook at the "Ceremony"?
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:59 (one year ago) link
I’m thinking they’re more likely to perform with Ian Curtis
― omar little, Friday, 3 February 2023 19:04 (one year ago) link
After their nomination was announced, Hook said an induction could serve as "an olive branch" - i.e. he'd be willing to play with New Order and make amends. (At least for one night.)
LMAO. Funny how he was replaced with much better guitarists after leaving the Yardbirds and the Bluesbreakers.
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 19:13 (one year ago) link
Surprised to see Alice In Chains not in yet, but I guess they’ll eventually get to inducing all of the four big grunge bands. Can’t see Stone Temple Pilots, Bush, Tad, The Melvins, Mudhoney, Silverchair, L7, Nickelback, Hole, Dinosaur Jr, etc getting over the bar but then again, nothing surprises me at this point.
― Siegbran, Friday, 3 February 2023 19:38 (one year ago) link
Can't wait to hear the arguments for Creed once they're nominated. "They're MAJOR artists - among rock bands, only Linkin Park and the Beatles sold more records in the '90s. Creed IS rock n' roll!"
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 19:43 (one year ago) link
Which inducted band would have caused most incredulity if you went back in time to the year of their debut and told rock fans "this act will one day be in the Rock Hall of Fame"? Depeche Mode?
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 3 February 2023 19:52 (one year ago) link
Mellencamp, or I should say Johnny Cougar since it would be the debut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chestnut_Street_Incident
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 19:56 (one year ago) link
Sheryl Crow rocks. I love that story about her crashing the closed audition and landing a gig as MJ's backing vocalist. Hollywood baybee!!
― My name is Mike Cyclops. I work for (bernard snowy), Friday, 3 February 2023 20:04 (one year ago) link
Every time I hear Sheryl Crow’s voice I think, “What’s this an ad for?” Turns out she indeed started out as a professional jingle singer. No idea why she chose to retain that approach to singing throughout her career. I do like “If It Makes You Happy,” though.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 3 February 2023 20:14 (one year ago) link
It's Willie, but I'm voting for Sheryl Crow because of all the disrespect in this thread. She does rock!!
― J. Sam, Friday, 3 February 2023 20:40 (one year ago) link
Which inducted band would have caused most incredulity if you went back in time to the year of their debut
Billy Joel/Attila?
― Siegbran, Saturday, 4 February 2023 10:05 (one year ago) link
Attila wouldn't really count as Billy's debut, he recorded two albums with the Hassles before that (which admittedly no-one would have called Hall of Fame-worthy either).
Three Imaginary Boys probably would have seemed less promising than Speak and Spell (from the standpoint of what in 1979 seemed like history-making rock and roll).
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 6 February 2023 15:45 (one year ago) link
Voted Kate Bush just because she's made the most music I like, and a little bit because her induction would tip the applecart a bit in terms of the hall and her own determination to do everything her way. Would she sail to Cleveland to perform?
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 6 February 2023 15:48 (one year ago) link
I mean, she must be one of very few nominees who has never performed a live concert on American soil (Saturday Night Live doesn't count). Joy Division also, but they are sneaking in with New Order.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 6 February 2023 15:50 (one year ago) link
‘It’s a No From Me’: Two Rock Hall Voters Dissect This Year’s Ballot
https://www.vulture.com/2023/03/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-2023-voters-share-ballots.html
Their take on the Spinners is awful:
Voter 1: They were a great vocal group for the Motown sound. But I feel like they didn’t have a huge impact on other peers of theirs. They’re on the bubble for me. They’re going to just fall short. They definitely had some jams. “I’ll Be Around” and “Working My Way Back to You” are great songs. But again, they’re almost too ephemeral.
They didn't get big until they left Motown and hooked up with Thom Bell - if anything they had a tremendous impact on the PHILLY sound. They were the most successful practitioners of that music, commercially and artistically.
Voter 2: I like the Spinners, but I don’t know if they’re the right fit here. I appreciate the music, but it’s like we break the mold for some things and not others. I’d love to hear the counterargument, but I don’t think the overall influence versus popularity adds up. For me, it’s too far back. I can’t name the lineage of groups that were influenced by them.
Given how often they're sampled, this is baffling. It's not even limited to samples - someone I know tried to make the argument that one of Willow Smith's singles was this underrated masterpiece after it blew up on TikTok, and as soon as I played the opening, it sounded like the backing track was based on 'I'll Be There' but in a lower key.
― birdistheword, Friday, 10 March 2023 22:28 (one year ago) link
With the Spinners, I'd count whatever influence they had as an extra; just on how great their music was alone (by which I really mean a representative compilation--although at least one regular-issue album is a classic, 1973's The Spinners), they should go in. Their chart-success, too, although again, I think there should be a level of excellence that gets someone in regardless. (You mean "I'll Be Around," right?) Which, I realize, is the most subjective call of all.
I suppose this doesn't bode well for them going in.
― clemenza, Friday, 10 March 2023 22:38 (one year ago) link