Have two groups ever been nominated and/or inducted as a bundle before?
― listened to "Mississippi" one take too long (morrisp), Thursday, 2 February 2023 21:44 (one year ago) link
Small Faces/Faces
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 2 February 2023 21:45 (one year ago) link
That seems almost as stark a split a Joy Division/New Order--fanciful mods to carousing bar band.
― clemenza, Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:09 (one year ago) link
but I recall one time where he dismissed Otis Redding as overrated because his influence wasn't as noticeable as Marvin Gaye's In addition to being wrong, it’s also pretty unfair, given how much shorter Redding’s career was. And DeRo blaming Redding for DeRo not being able to spot his influence is pretty rich.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:34 (one year ago) link
What the fuck is going on with Outkast still not being nominated
― thewufs, Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:44 (one year ago) link
Should Mac have had three inductions: Green/Spencer/Kirwan, Kirwan/weston, and then Buckingham/Nicks?
One argument in favor of that - it emphasizes that Green’s FM is a great group in its own right. Not news to any of us but I’m stunned how they’ve been marginalized to some extent in the U.S. Their work hasn’t been mastered or reissued properly like it has overseas, and even print publications here treat them like a footnote. I saw a Fleetwood Mac special on the rack, ostensibly covering their entire history, and there was barely much coverage at all on Peter Green et al.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:47 (one year ago) link
Never even heard of The Spinners
Think I'll go with Kate Bush
― paolo, Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:47 (one year ago) link
they'll be around
― I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THE DIAPER GOT LOOSE (Neanderthal), Thursday, 2 February 2023 22:58 (one year ago) link
like a record baby
― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 2 February 2023 23:02 (one year ago) link
Can’t remember where I read this, but during an early ‘80s P-Funk arena show, at the height of an all-hands-on-deck extravaganza, 40 people on stage, lights, confetti…suddenly, everything stopped dead and the lights went out. A single spotlight appeared on stage, and Philippé Wynne walked out in full tuxedo with white tails and sang “A Change Is Gonna Come.”
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 2 February 2023 23:34 (one year ago) link
Also Joy Division/New Order should be in separately but I guess somebody was looking for something that would finally do the trick.
Did the trick for me! The two of them separately up against the rest of this list, I would have had a harder time. But together it's like, nobody else here should get in before them.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 2 February 2023 23:41 (one year ago) link
The Spinners should have been the first Philly Soul artists in the HOF. It’s strange they’re still waiting but the O’Jays have been there for a long while now. Similarly how has King Crimson been overlooked when they should have been the first progressive rock band in the HOF.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 2 February 2023 23:52 (one year ago) link
"Should have" is a discussion for a Hall of Merit. A Hall of Fame is going to be as fickle and arbitrary as fame itself.
If we treat every band according to what it deserves, whomst should scape whipping? - Oscar Marley Einstein (I think)
― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 2 February 2023 23:55 (one year ago) link
Fame alone doesn't cut it - else Weird Al Yankovic, Scooter and J-Lo would be in already. There has to be some sort of gravitas.
― Siegbran, Friday, 3 February 2023 09:39 (one year ago) link
For the rest:
Maiden is a shoo-in
Willie Nelson, hell why not if Cash and Dolly are already in
Kate Bush and Missy Elliott look more likely to me than Sheryl Crow and Cyndi Lauper?
Soundgarden, White Stripes and Rage Against The Machine in before an institution like Motörhead seems wrong but that's what it is - I think Soundgarden will get it
ATCQ, fine with me but surely there are higher profile hip-hop artists that should go before them? Wu Tang? Snoop?
Of the 80s stars, I get the feeling that JD/NO stock has been gradually decreasing over the past decades, and George Michael has risen but where we are now, no idea
Warren Zevon probably has the lowest name recognition of this bunch? That probably hurts his chances.
The Spinners, as the oldest act in this list, may not have enough passionate fans left to make the push?
― Siegbran, Friday, 3 February 2023 10:16 (one year ago) link
the most r&rhof thing to do would have been to only nominate/induct one of jd/no so i'm disappointed in then
― ufo, Friday, 3 February 2023 10:22 (one year ago) link
Of 90s/00s groups I think it's unconceivable that Soundgarden, White Stripes, or RATM might actually get voted in before Smashing Pumpkins are even nominated, but I guess I'm odd that way.
― Sam Weller, Friday, 3 February 2023 11:47 (one year ago) link
Corgan will get in as a living exhibit
― sanguisug boggy bogg (Neanderthal), Friday, 3 February 2023 13:46 (one year ago) link
I was on a Zoom call with three rock-critic-type friends last night (all of us 55-65), and going through the list, the greatest consensus was for Missy Elliott, Joy Division/New Order, Cyndi Lauper, and the Spinners. My one friend wanted to put everyone in, prompting another to say that if you put in Sheryl Crow, you may as well put in Tommy Tutone. Which was harsh but made laugh.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 14:36 (one year ago) link
allow me to think that the tommy tutone comment came from xhuxk.
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 3 February 2023 14:40 (one year ago) link
If Maiden doesn't get in should rebrand it POSER HALL OF FAME
― sanguisug boggy bogg (Neanderthal), Friday, 3 February 2023 14:54 (one year ago) link
i mean soundgarden is a way better band than smashing pumpkins so there is that
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 3 February 2023 15:20 (one year ago) link
Boom
I like SP but Soundgarden is at a higher level
― sanguisug boggy bogg (Neanderthal), Friday, 3 February 2023 15:27 (one year ago) link
TSF: no, all-Canadian call. And guessing that Chuck'd be okay with Tommy in there!
Thought some more about my own first post above, and subjectively, I think I'd replace Zevon with either Kate Bush or Cyndi Lauper if I could only pick five. I think Zevon should go in (surprised he's not in already), but for myself, I don't know much beyond the two albums I have (first two), and if I match the three songs I love ("Werewolves of London," "Lawyers, Guns and Money," and "Poor Poor Pitiful Me") against "Cloudbusting/The Man with the Child in His Eyes"/"Running Up that Hill" or "Time After Time/Girls Just Wanna Have Fun/Money Changes Everything," I'd give the edge to Bush or Lauper.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 15:47 (one year ago) link
Not to be Cap'n Save-a-Sheryl but her career has been longer and more hit-studded than that of Mr. Tutone. She had eight years with a dozen charting singles and ten charting albums.
He had exactly two of each.
― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 3 February 2023 15:49 (one year ago) link
I think he was exaggerating for comic effect.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 15:52 (one year ago) link
(Tommy Tutone had a second hit?)
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 15:53 (one year ago) link
i saw sheryl in a giant field in central park with big swooping tv cameras all over the place and, like, keith richards and everything. i saw the guitarist who wrote that tommy tutone song play to a motley group of townies sitting in folding chairs in downtown glen cove. https://patch.com/new-york/glencove/sidemen-featuring-legendary-uptown-horns-play-glen-cove-july-8th-0
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 3 February 2023 15:57 (one year ago) link
When Le Tigre announced their upcoming reunion tour recently, they tweeted, "Tell your mom and her friends! We're going on tour!"
"Your mom and her friends" is the perfect description of Sheryl Crow's audience. She's a major artist.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 3 February 2023 16:19 (one year ago) link
LMAO, spot on. I agree, except for Sheryl Crow I'd like to see everyone else get in. Maybe it could be an Oprah-type surprise - "You get in! You get in! Every-body gets in the Hall (but Crow)!"
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:21 (one year ago) link
clemenza, per wiki he actually had a FIRST hit before Jenny
but yeah, I presume someone making this argument is exaggerating
For all arguments of the form "why ___ but not ___," or "why ___ before ___," I will revert to tapping the sign that says "yes it is arbitrary and capricious and fickle; so is fame; so are all human constructs." Because it is done by ballot and by humans, it will inevitably exhibit all the flaws of said humans. To wit, being arbitrary and capricious and fickle and - GASP - inconsistent.
Honestly it's either this discourse, or the aforementioned "set this stupid institution and everything associated with it on fire and decre that this misguided enterprise should have been drowned in (conveniently nearby) Lake Erie before it even had a chance to impinge on our conscious minds with its ridiculously arbitrary and capricious and fickle nature."
― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 3 February 2023 16:22 (one year ago) link
Sheryl Crow is probably closer to Mellencamp than Tutone if we’re talking longevity and cultural relevance
― omar little, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:30 (one year ago) link
The friend who wanted Sheryl Crow in, she was his second choice and he made a pretty impassioned case for her, mentioning a couple of songs I didn't know at all. I do like "Every Day Is a Winding Road." "All I Wanna Do," too, though not as much. Always hated the way she sings "This is L.A.," like I'm too much a rube to understand.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:32 (one year ago) link
Crow's influence is more pronounced than ever.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 3 February 2023 16:32 (one year ago) link
Soundgarden def better than SPs IMO, just a massive beast of a band, far better than anyone might remember, this almost liquid heavy sound that was so dense and dark, not the same style at all but some of the peaks of badmotorfinger give me the same feeling as the most out there live jam albums of miles Davis and co from the ‘70s.
― omar little, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:32 (one year ago) link
o t m
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Friday, 3 February 2023 16:33 (one year ago) link
I always took crow saying “this is l.a.” as not an explanation but an slightly stoned exclamation of wonder
― omar little, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:33 (one year ago) link
Mellencamp's HOF argument really rests on a few records, but I think they had a much more substantial impact than Crow's. He also doesn't have the ugly controversy with Kevin Gilbert et al hanging over his head - it was kind of the opposite where his real breakthrough came from asserting more control over his own work and career.
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:36 (one year ago) link
This may not be up to date, but it's a pretty detailed list of artists not in, how many years they've been eligible, and how many times they've been nominated before:
https://futurerocklegends.com/The_Snub_List/
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 16:51 (one year ago) link
i saw sheryl in a giant field in central park with big swooping tv cameras i saw the guitarist who wrote that tommy tutone song play to a motley group of townies
...and it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 3 February 2023 17:16 (one year ago) link
Genuine Lol
― listened to "Mississippi" one take too long (morrisp), Friday, 3 February 2023 17:19 (one year ago) link
haha
― Thus Sang Freud, Friday, 3 February 2023 17:25 (one year ago) link
Interesting find, clem ... The never-nommed list and how long they've been eligible is pretty eye-opening
Johnny Burnette and the Rock N Roll Trio 42Connie Francis 40Jan & Dean 38Dick Dale 36Peter, Paul & Mary 36Toots & the Maytals 36Barry White 35Cher 33The Guess Who 33The Sonics 33Captain Beefheart 32Jim Croce 32Love 32The Monkees 32Scott Walker 32Tommy James & the Shondells 32Harry Nilsson 31Can 30Jethro Tull 30Silver Apples 30The Carpenters 29King Crimson 29Kool & the Gang 29Nick Drake 29Three Dog Night 29Diana Ross 28Emerson, Lake & Palmer 28Sparks 27Big Star 26Blue Öyster Cult 26Neu! 26The Pointer Sisters 25Bad Company 24Brian Eno 24The Commodores 24Television 23The Damned 22The Runaways 22Björk 21The Buzzcocks 21The Jam 21Suicide 21XTC 21The B-52's 20Black Flag 20Siouxsie & the Banshees 20X 20Bauhaus 19The Dead Kennedys 19Echo and the Bunnymen 19The Specials 19"Weird Al" Yankovic 19INXS 18Ozzy Osbourne 18Billy Idol 17Hüsker Dü 17Mötley Crüe 17New Order 17Sonic Youth 16Pantera 15Slayer 15The Flaming Lips 14The Jesus and Mary Chain 14Nick Cave 14Pet Shop Boys 14Sade 14Faith No More 13Megadeth 13My Bloody Valentine 13Stone Roses 13Gloria Estefan 11Pixies 11De La Soul 10Fugazi 10Massive Attack 10The Offspring 10Pavement 9Queen Latifah 9Alice In Chains 8Blur 8Mariah Carey 8Smashing Pumpkins 8Aphex Twin 7PJ Harvey 7Tori Amos 7Nas 6Stone Temple Pilots 6TLC 6Tool 6Wu-Tang Clan 6Outkast 5Daft Punk 4Oasis 4Sleater-Kinney 4Weezer 4Wilco 4The Chemical Brothers 3Belle & Sebastian 2Queens of the Stone Age 1
― عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Friday, 3 February 2023 17:41 (one year ago) link
A bunch of those would probably be in already if there was a larger British or European presence in the committee and voting pools.
Guessing Scott Walker, Fairport Convention, Can, King Crimson, Nick Drake, Sparks, Neu!, Brian Eno, Television, The Damned, Wire, The Buzzcocks, The Jam, XTC, Echo and the Bunnymen, The Specials, The Smiths, New Order, The Jesus and Mary Chain, Nick Cave, Pet Shop Boys, Stone Roses, Massive Attack, Blur and PJ Harvey among many others.
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 17:48 (one year ago) link
However will Cher and Brian Eno and Massive Attack and Sleater-Kinney survive without the recognition of the HoF? One wonders. Perhaps they are weeping now about the sting of this unconscionable snub. Or maybe (like sensible people) they understand that is a very silly circular conversation and are glad not to have to pretend it is something else, even for an evening.
― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 3 February 2023 17:55 (one year ago) link
I think Greil Marcus has made a good point on that. For the artists you mention, sure, it means nothing. But for some of the older artists who are in there, and for many older artists who aren't, it sometimes means a great deal (Marcus bases this on conversations he's had):
I’ve often thought of the Hall of Fame as a terrible if not ridiculous idea, mostly because I hated the stricture of, in this most democratic realm of free speech, elevating some over others. I thought of it as a joke, until I met musicians--most vehemently, Mary Weiss of the Shangri-Las--who made plain how much it would mean to them to be included, what a validation it would be, and how excluded, how cast on the garbage heap of those who might as well have never been born, which is to say never played on the radio, they felt over never having the thrill of seeing their names on the wall. So, I took it more seriously.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:05 (one year ago) link
That sucks if Mary feels that way :(
She doesn't/shouldn't need the validation
― listened to "Mississippi" one take too long (morrisp), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:08 (one year ago) link
xp OTM. I mean, that's pretty much true for the Oscars too - it's silly to consider them representative of what's really the best films out there, especially this year. But it's obvious they mean a LOT to people when they win them - the fact that it's more or less coming from their peers probably helps (politics and campaigning aside). So it feels dickish to shit on something they're happy to get.
Don't forget what Tom Waits said after he was inducted: "I never really cared about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but now I am surprised to discover how much I DO care."
― birdistheword, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:08 (one year ago) link
Among many reasons they won't ever get in, The Guess Who would be dangerous for Burton Cummings' tendency to insult his other band members when receiving awards, which got him cut off at the Juno Awards.
― Halfway there but for you, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:11 (one year ago) link
xp This is the same point I've made on here re: The Grammys... they mean a lot to artists (some of whom I care about), despite all the issues/shortcomings.
― listened to "Mississippi" one take too long (morrisp), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:13 (one year ago) link