to what extent does your life revolve around alcohol?

and really, that's why i'm drinking again now, i guess. it wasn't because the month of january. it's hard to do without some sort of support network, or just someone else who is holding you accountable. eventually, time passes, and things are still very very sad. it's hard. you can make the right decisions and try to make changes in your life, but there's an unpredictably interminable lag between change and effect. you can do the right thing and never have the right thing happen, and then, you can do the completely wrong thing and have a wonderful night. the superego is supposed to make sense of it all and remind the rest of the brain about the concept of lag, i suppose, but sometimes the superego goes on vacation or maybe got a divorce and lives at the bottom of an ocean now

otm

*old haggard cigarette torn voice*

i haven't been otm in forty years...

I am not good at coping with winter; I am mostly stuck inside and everything is dark and boring. Mid-January to mid-February is, for me, the worst possible time to deny myself a comfort.

Personally I find it way easier to take a break in summer, because I can go out and do stuff instead. Swim, bike, walk, play music outside.

My recent breaks have gone from June to September and those have gone okay. Even then I grant myself a select few "special occasion" passes.

btw i meant to mention, while putting together those 2 non-posts in mid-january, i read every post upthread and learned a lot. it was just a classic thread, imo. i wish i could have just posted "thank you for typing your words, everyone" and left it at that, at the time. but better late than never - thank you for typing your words, everyone!

I was going to do a sober Feb (the shortest month) but now that I'm involuntarily single (see Heartbreak thread) I'll be damned if I forgo the only thing that seems to silence the miserable thoughts I've been having this week

oooof. i have never opened the heartbreak thread, but i'm sorry to hear it Andy. and i tip my can of beer (definitely not an IPA. why would a white guy be drinking a can of IPA) at my computer monitor <3

y'all <3

thank you! I imagine my life will revolve quite closely around alcohol for the near forseeable future

xposts i always mix up the ego and superego, ugh

Karl, are you back on the reefer?

I’ve been thinking about quitting for a lot of reasons, but I have a much harder time letting go of pot than alcohol. It feels like it’s a part of me while drinking was just something to do.

When I run out this time maybe I’ll take a break.

shit, i had a long post there and it was somehow lost! probably better, for reading reasons. i'll edit it down. my usual method of smoking was a glass pipe, which shattered at the end of december in a very cinematic way. i took it as a sign. i smoked 3 times in january. the first was a badly rolled joint with what was left in the grinder. the second was an enormous amount of keef which i tried to roll into a joint. it failed, spectacularly. nothing came through the joint, to the point that i ended up just kind of sniffing the lit tip smoke with my nose. it wasn't until it had nearly burned all the way down that i was finally able to inhale it normally - i think the powdery keef was just way too dense. oops. the third time was at a friend's house. we painted in her sun room and she passed me the vape pen. it ruled.

and that third time, the friend's house, in her company, doing an activity together and feeling the sun, reminded me of why i had stopped in the first place. because it was so, so good, in a normal way, which is to say the outstanding way that used to be normal for me for so long. somewhere along the way, though, i lost that. i mentioned it to a friend a few weeks ago and still remember, so i guess it's halfway worth remembering -- smoking had become maintenance for me. sure, it made me feel better, but i was starting to feel really dull and moody without it, and on some occasions which should have been warm family gatherings, i'd find myself thinking about getting home and smoking. not good. smoking weed should, and can be, a wonderful experience that softens things, opens up creativity, pushes back against the negative voice. it shouldn't be a debt you have to pay to get back to normal, and that's what it had become for me.

missouri legalized it last fall, and the first recreational shops open up in a few weeks. and when jan 1 hit and i stopped drinking and smoking at the same time, i thought, hey, maybe when those first shops open up i'll reward myself by buying a bunch of weed. i think i probably will stop in the store, but i'm hoping that i can limit myself to just buying a pack of overpriced prerolled joints. i don't know how many come in those packs, but i'd rather think of it as 5-10 relaxing experiences that i can have (or share with a friend, if i'm a lucky bastard), rather than my medicine that will get me through the month, which is what it had become before.

it's probably obvious but i'm still mega struggling with all that

Someone just brought a weird bottle of THC apple juice - literally apple juice - to our band practice room and I'm kinda afraid to try it... the label has a warning: "If you're not used to this product, we recommend a half-dose" or something like that

imo chug

*says the haunted figure in the alley trying to lick his elbow*

Ehh, nobody else wants to try it either - so I might bring it home and start with a teaspoon, and then go from there

I'm not the biggest edibles/tincture fan - I generally overdose and just want to go to bed, but it's been awhile

just start with 5mg and see what it does. everyone's tolerance is wildly different with that stuff. but when you get it right, it's the best

I mean whatever 5mg of THC is on that thing. not 5mg of the apple juice. reckon that wouldn't do much

Yeah I think a regular dose is 10mg, so 5 would be a good starting taste

it's a pretty small bottle

great posts upthread km, thanks

I once quit cigarettes and stuck to it for years because I had a good friend along for the ride, we had weekly phone call sessions abt staying off cigs (somewhat inspired by what I'd gathered abt AA from reading infinite jest)

eventually we figured we were good and stopped the phone calls and half a year later both relapsed

I know a handful of former potheads who say CBD weed changed their lives, they can smoke as much as they normally would but with hardly any side effects (and supposedly still getting the kind of anxiety relief they need)

It's gotten to where weed has started making me anxious. I get stoned and instead of relaxing I start tripping on wether I should be getting stoned or not

Maybe we need a separate thread for "To what extent does your life revolve around weed?" (Serious, not being flippant.)

My wife rarely drinks but we went our for her birthday with a couple of friends and they got a little tipsy.

Man, being around drunk people is seriously trying for a newly sober person. At the same time it's affirming because I totally saw myself in their behavior and it was repulsive. Not that I was repulsed by my wife, but seeing in them the ways I used to act when drunk and it was embarrassing. It was like being on the other side of a two way mirror and seeing myself. The first moments when words start to slur a little but I think nobody would notice when it's already well past that point.

Lately I've been thinking a lot about Camper Van Beethoven's "Never Go Back."

"If you see me sitting around
Thinking the same old thoughts over and over again
Or going back to old ways I've long ago abandoned,
Please, tell me... Never go back."

The first moments when words start to slur a little but I think nobody would notice when it's already well past that point.

Yeah, that's one of the things I'm realizing this time around. It had to do with why I quit herb in addition to booze. I've had a problem with my wife's cannabis consumption for a while, and it has led to problems in our relationship (I mean, it's one of many, many issues between us, but that's a sidebar we don't need to get into). Sometimes, I notice her eating cannabutter very early in the day, and I've made a few snide remarks like "starting early, huh?" To which she replies something like "I use pot all day, every day. You just don't notice." And the answer I keep to myself is "No, I really, really notice." Back when I was using, I always thought that cannabis just made her act strangely, while I thought I was able to pass in public. But at a certain point, I realized that sometimes I may have seemed more intoxicated than I realized as well.

Anyway, I haven't heard that Camper Van Beethoven song in years. I'll have to revisit it.

I would love to have the kind of hope and motivation to quit pot and go through 6 months to 3 years of PAWS but I don’t believe in myself at all and I’m too old to like “start over” psychically or whatever. guess I need to hit “rock bottom” and receive some “tough love”!

Not here to give advice or anything because we're all different people with different circumstances, but in regard to the general theme of this thread my own broad feelings about whatever chemicals people use in their routines are the old standbys about, what if anything is it interfering with or inhibiting?

Obviously if it gets to the point of losing jobs or relationships because of or fueled by substance use, that's a problem, but by that point you're pretty far down the line probably. For me it's more paying attention to my moods, how I act with and around my family and friends, whether I'm ever distant or irritable or whatever because of alcohol/weed (or because I haven't had alcohol or weed), just that baseline "How do I feel?" I only ever want intoxicants to be supplements, life enhancers, things that make an evening more pleasant. If they are serving purposes other than that, that may be OK in the short term — god knows I've drunk more in the year after a relationship ended, e.g. — but obviously potentially problematic in the longer term. So for me it's less about quantity or frequency of anything than about observable effects (to the extent one can view such things about oneself with any objectivity).

I was a moderator at a Moderation Management meeting for a few years, until a combination of factors (Covid, and then losing the meeting space) shut it down. We had some fairly solid guidelines for what was considered moderate drinking - i.e. no more than 14 drinks per week for men, 9 for women, no more than four on any occasion, only 3-4 days per week, etc. Alcohol is pretty quantifiable - 14 grams of pure alcohol is considered a standard drink in the U.S. (The meeting was really helpful for me and I'm thinking of trying to get it going again.)

But occasionally we'd get someone coming in that was interested in moderating their weed use, and we basically had to start from scratch. There were no guidelines to speak of - what is moderate cannabis use? An eighth a week maybe? Never smoking before 5pm? Only on the weekends? It was an interesting problem, and one that our national org was reluctant to deal with because weed is still illegal in a lot of places. I think things have changed now in that some of the gummies and edible things are very specific in the dosages. But like a lot of drugs, tolerance can set in over time and you might need more to feel the effects.

Anyone ever tried to come with a personal plan for consistently 'moderate' weed use?

For me it's like, a hit or two in the evening. Which adds up to, like ... less than an eighth a month? (Not trying to make any heavier users feel bad, I've just never been a high-volume guy.)

Yeah, I definitely don't want to make other people feel bad about their imbibements. My choices have been very much based on what I've noticed about myself and how certain things weren't working for me.

I do like what Karl Malone said about "5-10 relaxing experiences that i can have ... rather than my medicine that will get me through the month". If I get to a more stable place in life, I can see trying to move back to a moderate usage of herb like that. Through trial and error, I've determined that's not possible with alcohol for me.

tipsy (no pun intended) otm

What is your usage interfering with is a key question. Also the idea of enhancement as opposed to replacement.

I want to drink wine for taste, culture, history, food pairing, camaraderie. I don't want to be drinking just to silence The Voices. Nor just because it's there.

Weed, I know to only reach for when I am already in a good mood. If I use any substance in a bad mood, or an anxious mood, it just tends to press the accelerator pedal on that mood.

I'm following this derail with interest. I didn't try grass until relatively late in life (around 30; I'm 38 now), and it was just occasional then since I had an infrequent connection. I'd been a casual drinker, but around 33 something changed; I got headaches or hangovers more frequently (and more punishingly) with decreasing amounts of alcohol--these days, two tall boys of Schlitz is enough to give me a bit of a migraine the next day, even when drinking plenty of water. As a result, I've largely phased it out in favor of vaping.

I used to smoke once or twice a week, largely because I never knew when I could get more. With a dealing neighbor and then legalization, it became a daily thing, though this wasn't a conscious decision. (I am still low tolerance, so it's generally two to three months before I need to replenish).

I go back and forth on this. I don't have any health effects, and I'm not really self-medicating, except for some irritating work days. Largely, I use it because I feel good on it, and for all the stereotypical reasons: it makes me feel a bit more... engaged? in media. Like, when watching films, I tend to "feel" them more and go with the flow, rather than overanalyzing as I'm watching, wanting to pull out my phone to look up an actor, or laugh more at TV. And the usual music effects.

Still, I get this nagging voice that doing anything like that every day raises an eyebrow. Like, I do it because it's genuinely more enjoyable to watch comedy stoned, but is that cover for a crutch? Then I say, am I just being moralistic--if I feel good, enjoy doing it, and it's not affecting my ability to function, or my relationship, what's the problem?

I suppose I should go back to being intentional--only smoke when I am deliberately listening to something or watching something--but if we're watching a comedy series, we tend to do an episode a night, so that winds me right back. At very least, been thinking about eliminating it as first recourse if I'm just bored.

In re anxiety, I'm not particularly prone to it but one of the times I've stopped using weed entirely was when my ex-wife was pregnant with our second child. Our first was born super premature, at 27 weeks, so the second pregnancy was fraught. It ended up being fine (just a month premature, which felt like nothing to us after the first experience), but during the lead-up I was so stressed about it that I found weed just made things worse. It's the only time I've actually thrown weed away, I was just like, "This isn't helping." Then didn't smoke it much for a few years because the house was full of little kids and appropriate times became harder to find.

And Blatherskite, my usage these days is probably v similar to yours, and I don't think there's any reason for "guilt" or anything about it — I drink coffee every morning too, I have lots of daily habits. I do probably need to shift to dry vaping, the actual smoke part is the one thing that I DO feel at all bad about.

my story is the same as yours, almost to the letter (I don't live in a legal state, but I have a neighbor with a brother-in-law...). health wise weed has probably been a good thing because I feel much less urge to drink. I was getting to the point where I'd randomly drink at nights and then wind up just wishing I was out with friends. smoking makes you wanna stay in and listen to music. which I do quite often anyway.

idk if there's much reason to feel guilty...I switch between smoking through a dry vape and edibles, so I don't think I'm hurting my lungs too much and my tolerance hasn't really crept up, which is nice, because if it did I'd feel the need to dial it back. totally agreed with the other posters though in that you don't really want to be using it if you're in a bad space. same way it can really intensify a great tune it can also intensify a bad feeling.

I think vaping (with oil cartridges) is a bit enabling w/r/t thoughtless consumption. When I vape actual bud, I have to wait for my vaporizer to heat up for seven minutes, then put in the grass and wait another five or so minutes. Whereas I can instantly hit my oil vaporizer, so it's much easier to grab it on an impulse/whim and due to that instant high. Or, if already high, to keep going throughout the rest of the night, rather than stopping to reload bud, watch what I've ground deplete to gauge how much I've used, etc.

It’s likely the oil is super bad for your lungs, tho. There have been a few deaths directly caused by oil based tobacco vapes, and literally nobody knows what long term exposure will do.

Probably pretty safe to assume it's not good for you, lol

* nicotine rather than tobacco, I mean

yea I think there's something to be said for that, if I'm loading the dry vape I'm just running through the one cycle and if later on I want more I'm usually like "eh, fuck it". the pen you just keep hitting every 15-20 minutes, which I'm sure is not great for your tolerance, among other things. also it isn't the same high. I think of it as eating a banana Laffy Taffy vs. an actual banana. like its a super concentrated high that's not quite as fulfilling.

as far as health effects go I've had a couple carts which just murdered my throat and I wound up tossing them. others were a lot smoother but yeah I don't wanna be one of those guys who sucks one down every couple weeks. the dry herb vape feels a lot safer for the lungs. iirc the deaths I think were due to fake carts which used a Vitamin E acetate to thicken them up. which I guess is something you absolutely should not smoke. I think there were several a few years ago but idk if there have been any since?

man you all are bumming me out

The question, "What are alcohol/weed keeping you from doing?" is sound. When I've considered a brief abstinence I've wondered what I could be doing instead.

I couldn't think of a thing.

If it weren’t for family obligations, I would straight up devolve into Cheech & Chong levels of stonerism. As it is I manage to get a lot of smoking in. I sometimes flirt with cutting back but my natural tendency is to become The Dude. Which is not necessarily healthy. It definitely feels more like maintenance than being stimulated. That’s how drinking was for me and it’s my general relationship with things I like.

I suppose it’s fair to say that choices I’ve made have made my life a lot smaller than I would prefer.

yeah I’m kind of like a moody sarcastic Lebowski

I stopped drinking though, because it really was demonstrably sending me to oblivion

to answer the threads question : lots.
and i have no issue with that.
i know this sounds irresponsible.
but i care not.
i only started drinking seriously after my wife died.
and 11 years later ..
well yeah.
most weeks i dry out for 3 days.
however, the fact is, i discovered a whole new world of social excess via the pub after she died.
was not easy going to the pub as a new widower, but little by little, the local crew got to know and accept this weird music loving bloke.
i now have a lot of local friends that i would never have had if not for booze.

blatherskite, one of the reasons I like edibles is that I have to plan ahead and be really intentional about it. I have to know where I'm going to be and what I'm expected to be doing 45 minutes or an hour from now. Also that there is a ceiling to the high. Example:

A quarter of a brownie = in X minutes I will probably be at X level of highness for Y hours (some of which I will be asleep for).

But HALF of a brownie = in X minutes I will probably be at X level of highness for Y+2 hours (most of which I will be asleep for).

The larger dose doesn't seem to affect the time of arrival or the amount of alteredness. Just its duration (for me, anyway). And since I sleep through a lot of it, it really doesn't matter.

This is distinct from the buzz maintenance strategies required for gin (he said, striving mightily to tack back to the topic).

One gin & tonic = Tasty, but meh in terms of buzz.

Two gin & tonics in 30 minutes = Oh, nice.

Three gin & tonics in 45 minutes = Now you're talking.

Four gin & tonics in 60 minutes = Guess I'll be ubering home.

Five, six, well... let's just not go there because it isn't pretty.

“ and that third time, the friend's house, in her company, doing an activity together and feeling the sun, reminded me of why i had stopped in the first place. because it was so, so good, in a normal way, which is to say the outstanding way that used to be normal for me for so long. somewhere along the way, though, i lost that. i mentioned it to a friend a few weeks ago and still remember, so i guess it's halfway worth remembering -- smoking had become maintenance for me. sure, it made me feel better, but i was starting to feel really dull and moody without it, and on some occasions which should have been warm family gatherings, i'd find myself thinking about getting home and smoking. not good. smoking weed should, and can be, a wonderful experience that softens things, opens up creativity, pushes back against the negative voice. it shouldn't be a debt you have to pay to get back to normal, and that's what it had become for me.”

Without getting specific, I’ll just say of KM what the young folks say about their favorite rappers - that MFer spittin’

In Moderation Management, we used to use the metaphor of a line in the sand - one this side of the line (let's say 4 pints) all is well and fun and celebratory - and on that side of the line (maybe 6 pints) they returns are diminishing, you're starting to get stupid and you have booze breath and you're probably not going sleep well.. and you'll likely feel it in the morning.

So this goal is to try and stay on this side of line - slow down, drink some water, make sure to eat some food, etc.

to be honest I would have loved for this stuff to have been discussed on ilx 5-10 years ago because I did not know anybody who talked about “problems” with weed and felt like a complete chuffhead for having a problem or thinking I did or whatever. That shows a supreme deficit of character and introspection on my part, but… nobody took this seriously. Through “treatment” I met maybe 2 people out of dozens of addicts who had a “pot problem” but I’m pretty sure one of them was a narc. Ok enough over sharing :-(

yup that is the struggle now, once you've had Drink #4 you're in a good spot and it's really hard not to think "ooh a 5th would make me feel even better" and at that point you just don't have the willpower to say no. worse this is when someone will bring up shots and you just go oh hell yeah

and yeah I identify with that KM quote too, always helps to take breaks here and there. the sense of euphoria is a lot more pronounced after a few days off