Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2023

God we've come far enough in time that the White Stripes are eligible. Sad stuff.

Am a fan of:

Kate Bush
Missy Elliott
Joy Division + New Order
George Michael

Enjoy but more-so revere:

Rage Against The Machine
The Spinners
A Tribe Called Quest

As for who gets in I have no clue it's a very unsurprising list

is influence that important of a factor? soundgarden was just a great rock band that was hard to emulate. frankly, for kids like me nirvana was the one mostly because you felt like you could do that. soundgarden is a harder target to reach.

If Joy Division and New Order get in this year, and Soundgarden and Rage don't, the solution for them next year is obviously to be nominated as Audioslave.

Re: influence and inspiration, I think the "quality" of the influence matters too. On those grounds, Kate Bush, Joy Division/New Order, Willie Nelson, The Spinners and A Tribe Called Quest would be at the top of my list. They didn't follow trends, they broke new ground and took big risks in their respective genres and wound up reshaping the music in the process. Re: New Order, one article stated that "they were formidable underground dance-music presences in the 1980s. They kept at it and the world came to them and they ended up global superstars" - that's pretty much what I'd call a profound influence.

Is it the Hall of Influence? The Hall of Like? The Hall of Deserve?

They could have called it the Hall of Merit, but chose Hall of Fame instead.

Among living people, George Michael is probably more famous than the Spinners or Elizabeth Cotten.

Willie Nelson is among the most famous musicians there is, but is he a rock musician?

they should ban more people from the hall, like in baseball, that would get me interested

also past inductees should be able to be kicked out arbitrarily

and during the ceremony where they get kicked out, a bunch of celeb musicians play their songs really badly on purpose

LMAO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfKT7cJGpY4

Hall of Flame

Beside the point of your post, but this is a little unfair to Kot. He's perhaps typical of critics of his generation in his affection for rock music and assuming its place in the center of the critical discourse, but he doesn't venerate the values of RAWK the way DeRo does, and his tastes are considerably more eclectic; he routinely champions other genres.

Back in the early to mid '00s (when their show was on WXRT), I remember that playing out once in a while whenever they argued over records. DeRo just seemed dismissive or especially hard on anything that wasn't "rock." To be fair, he seemed to change his mind about things all the time (he's dismissed than praised a lot of artists like Radiohead, the White Stripes, Gang of Four, Joy Division, New Order, David Bowie, etc.), but I recall one time where he dismissed Otis Redding as overrated because his influence wasn't as noticeable as Marvin Gaye's and other times he'd argue with Kot over some Bacharach pop record (probably Dionne Warwick) or possibly a country record, and his final response was "I listen to rock n' roll! What do YOU listen to?" What kind of argument is that coming from someone who's supposed to be an authority on pop music?

1. Genesis and Fleetwood Mac substantially changed almost everything re: each act's music over time, but neither ever changed brand names… these changes were far more gradual than JD/NO, but there was a smaller alteration in personnel in JD/NO… so if its only proper for Joy Division and New Order to be considered as separate inductees, should the Gabriel version have been separately inducted from Collins/Rutherford/Banks? Should Mac have had three inductions: Green/Spencer/Kirwan, Kirwan/weston, and then Buckingham/Nicks?

2. I think that, should Maiden be inducted, Steve Harris would at least be dismissive, being that the RRHoF over the past 20 years but certainly now has had very little to do with his very narrow view of rock music. "UFO isn't in? But a bunch of poofters (specifically Depeche Mode, the Cure) and tarts are?"

I still think they should just retroactively just say that LL Cool J, Kraftwerk, Gil-Scott Heron and Judas Priest are normal inductees, it's so weird and aggravating

Have two groups ever been nominated and/or inducted as a bundle before?

Small Faces/Faces

That seems almost as stark a split a Joy Division/New Order--fanciful mods to carousing bar band.

but I recall one time where he dismissed Otis Redding as overrated because his influence wasn't as noticeable as Marvin Gaye's

In addition to being wrong, it’s also pretty unfair, given how much shorter Redding’s career was. And DeRo blaming Redding for DeRo not being able to spot his influence is pretty rich.

What the fuck is going on with Outkast still not being nominated

Should Mac have had three inductions: Green/Spencer/Kirwan, Kirwan/weston, and then Buckingham/Nicks?

One argument in favor of that - it emphasizes that Green’s FM is a great group in its own right. Not news to any of us but I’m stunned how they’ve been marginalized to some extent in the U.S. Their work hasn’t been mastered or reissued properly like it has overseas, and even print publications here treat them like a footnote. I saw a Fleetwood Mac special on the rack, ostensibly covering their entire history, and there was barely much coverage at all on Peter Green et al.

Never even heard of The Spinners

Think I'll go with Kate Bush

Never even heard of The Spinners

they'll be around

like a record baby

Can’t remember where I read this, but during an early ‘80s P-Funk arena show, at the height of an all-hands-on-deck extravaganza, 40 people on stage, lights, confetti…suddenly, everything stopped dead and the lights went out. A single spotlight appeared on stage, and Philippé Wynne walked out in full tuxedo with white tails and sang “A Change Is Gonna Come.”

Also Joy Division/New Order should be in separately but I guess somebody was looking for something that would finally do the trick.

Did the trick for me! The two of them separately up against the rest of this list, I would have had a harder time. But together it's like, nobody else here should get in before them.

The Spinners should have been the first Philly Soul artists in the HOF. It’s strange they’re still waiting but the O’Jays have been there for a long while now. Similarly how has King Crimson been overlooked when they should have been the first progressive rock band in the HOF.

"Should have" is a discussion for a Hall of Merit. A Hall of Fame is going to be as fickle and arbitrary as fame itself.

If we treat every band according to what it deserves, whomst should scape whipping? - Oscar Marley Einstein (I think)

Fame alone doesn't cut it - else Weird Al Yankovic, Scooter and J-Lo would be in already. There has to be some sort of gravitas.

For the rest:

Maiden is a shoo-in

Willie Nelson, hell why not if Cash and Dolly are already in

Kate Bush and Missy Elliott look more likely to me than Sheryl Crow and Cyndi Lauper?

Soundgarden, White Stripes and Rage Against The Machine in before an institution like Motörhead seems wrong but that's what it is - I think Soundgarden will get it

ATCQ, fine with me but surely there are higher profile hip-hop artists that should go before them? Wu Tang? Snoop?

Of the 80s stars, I get the feeling that JD/NO stock has been gradually decreasing over the past decades, and George Michael has risen but where we are now, no idea

Warren Zevon probably has the lowest name recognition of this bunch? That probably hurts his chances.

The Spinners, as the oldest act in this list, may not have enough passionate fans left to make the push?

the most r&rhof thing to do would have been to only nominate/induct one of jd/no so i'm disappointed in then

Of 90s/00s groups I think it's unconceivable that Soundgarden, White Stripes, or RATM might actually get voted in before Smashing Pumpkins are even nominated, but I guess I'm odd that way.

Corgan will get in as a living exhibit

I was on a Zoom call with three rock-critic-type friends last night (all of us 55-65), and going through the list, the greatest consensus was for Missy Elliott, Joy Division/New Order, Cyndi Lauper, and the Spinners. My one friend wanted to put everyone in, prompting another to say that if you put in Sheryl Crow, you may as well put in Tommy Tutone. Which was harsh but made laugh.

allow me to think that the tommy tutone comment came from xhuxk.

If Maiden doesn't get in should rebrand it POSER HALL OF FAME

i mean soundgarden is a way better band than smashing pumpkins so there is that

Boom

I like SP but Soundgarden is at a higher level

TSF: no, all-Canadian call. And guessing that Chuck'd be okay with Tommy in there!

Thought some more about my own first post above, and subjectively, I think I'd replace Zevon with either Kate Bush or Cyndi Lauper if I could only pick five. I think Zevon should go in (surprised he's not in already), but for myself, I don't know much beyond the two albums I have (first two), and if I match the three songs I love ("Werewolves of London," "Lawyers, Guns and Money," and "Poor Poor Pitiful Me") against "Cloudbusting/The Man with the Child in His Eyes"/"Running Up that Hill" or "Time After Time/Girls Just Wanna Have Fun/Money Changes Everything," I'd give the edge to Bush or Lauper.

Not to be Cap'n Save-a-Sheryl but her career has been longer and more hit-studded than that of Mr. Tutone. She had eight years with a dozen charting singles and ten charting albums.

He had exactly two of each.

I think he was exaggerating for comic effect.

(Tommy Tutone had a second hit?)

i saw sheryl in a giant field in central park with big swooping tv cameras all over the place and, like, keith richards and everything. i saw the guitarist who wrote that tommy tutone song play to a motley group of townies sitting in folding chairs in downtown glen cove. https://patch.com/new-york/glencove/sidemen-featuring-legendary-uptown-horns-play-glen-cove-july-8th-0

When Le Tigre announced their upcoming reunion tour recently, they tweeted, "Tell your mom and her friends! We're going on tour!"

"Your mom and her friends" is the perfect description of Sheryl Crow's audience. She's a major artist.

I was on a Zoom call with three rock-critic-type friends last night (all of us 55-65), and going through the list, the greatest consensus was for Missy Elliott, Joy Division/New Order, Cyndi Lauper, and the Spinners. My one friend wanted to put everyone in, prompting another to say that if you put in Sheryl Crow, you may as well put in Tommy Tutone. Which was harsh but made laugh.

LMAO, spot on. I agree, except for Sheryl Crow I'd like to see everyone else get in. Maybe it could be an Oprah-type surprise - "You get in! You get in! Every-body gets in the Hall (but Crow)!"

clemenza, per wiki he actually had a FIRST hit before Jenny

but yeah, I presume someone making this argument is exaggerating

For all arguments of the form "why ___ but not ___," or "why ___ before ___," I will revert to tapping the sign that says "yes it is arbitrary and capricious and fickle; so is fame; so are all human constructs." Because it is done by ballot and by humans, it will inevitably exhibit all the flaws of said humans. To wit, being arbitrary and capricious and fickle and - GASP - inconsistent.

Honestly it's either this discourse, or the aforementioned "set this stupid institution and everything associated with it on fire and decre that this misguided enterprise should have been drowned in (conveniently nearby) Lake Erie before it even had a chance to impinge on our conscious minds with its ridiculously arbitrary and capricious and fickle nature."

Sheryl Crow is probably closer to Mellencamp than Tutone if we’re talking longevity and cultural relevance

The friend who wanted Sheryl Crow in, she was his second choice and he made a pretty impassioned case for her, mentioning a couple of songs I didn't know at all. I do like "Every Day Is a Winding Road." "All I Wanna Do," too, though not as much. Always hated the way she sings "This is L.A.," like I'm too much a rube to understand.

Crow's influence is more pronounced than ever.